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How long have you been married for? If you have been married for more than 4 years, your wife would qualify for Indefinite Leave to Enter (ILE)dreadnought wrote:This board has been a real mine of information for me and I'm hoping that someone can help me with my predicament. It's a little complicated, so please bear with me if I don't explain it perfectly..
I'm a UK citizen, married to a woman from Kyrgyzstan and we have a two year old son who has British citizenship. We have spent most of our married life abroad (in either Kyrgyzstan or Korea) because of my work so my wife has no kind of British residency/EEA permit etc.
At the beginning of March we are all going to Bulgaria for three months or possibly longer because I have some work there to do. I assumed, because she is the spouse of an EU citizen, that it would be relatively easy for her to get an extended visa or at least to get a short-term visa to stay in Bulgaria and then get it extended when we arrive there. However, numerous phone calls to both Bulgaria and to their nearest consulate to us in Kazakhstan have revealed that they will only grant her a thirty day visa, after which she MUST leave the country. They siad that she can then go back home and start the application for a longer term visa there. Obviously this is incredibly difficult for us as I'll be working there, we've got a child and it's not cheap to fly back and forth to Kyrgyzstan.
Anyhow, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry told us (through an intermediary) that it would be easier for her to get a longer term visa if she had some kind of residency permit from Britain. I am not really sure exactly what document they are talking about and they seemed reluctant to give that information. However, we almost never go back to Britain because of my job so any document based on her living there is just not possible for us.
Ok, basically I am asking whether anyone knows how she could extend her visa in Bulgaria without having to go all the way back to Kyrgyzstan and starting the process from there? And preferably without leaving the country at all? Could we apply for a UK visa/EEA family permit from the British Embassy in Bulgaria and would that help her to extend her visa there?
I've been reading lots of EU/UK rules and regulations trying to find answers to these questions, and we've phoned up various UK/Bulgaria embassies/consulates to try to get clarification, but noone seems willing or able to give us clear information on this. If anyone could help I would be really grateful.
I wasn't quite sure what forum to post this in, so apologies if I've put it in the wrong one.
Thanks Mym for your comments and research. I really hope this is true. My only concern is this vague part of those laws: "The visa shall be issued under conditions and by procedure, settled by the Council of Ministers, free of charge for processing the documents and issuing the visa." This sounds like a get out clause for the Ministry, allowing them to make individual distinctions based on individual cases.mym wrote:Hello dreadnought.
The bulgarian embassy is talking crap.
Bulgaria has transposed Directive 2004/38/EC into it's law so your wife has an *absolute* right to enter Bulgaria with you for three months for any reason, and longer if you are exercising a treaty right (working for example). They *have* to issue a visa permitting her to enter, for free, and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.
An english copy of the transposition is at http://www.ambsofia.um.dk/NR/rdonlyres/ ... RINGBG.doc.
You can also legally enter at the border with only your passports and proof you are married.
Furthermore, if you are later coming back to the UK after exercising a treaty right in Bulgaria you come under the terms of the "Surinder Singh" rules and have the right to bring your wife with you under EU law not UK law. So you can get a free EEA Family Permit and then a Residence Permit for her once here.
Good luck.
Unfortunately, we've only been married for about 2.5 years so I don't think that would apply to us just yet. But thanks for the link, definitely something we'll consider in a few years time.thirdwave wrote:
How long have you been married for? If you have been married for more than 4 years, your wife would qualify for Indefinite Leave to Enter (ILE)
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukresi ... ilpartner/
Contact your local British Dip Mission for more details..
Mym, just a quick follow up. Does it matter that we haven't been living in the UK? This seems to be the great sticking point with the Bulgarian Ministry. My wife has no EEA permit/UK visa/residency for the UK and this seems to be what they want for her to have the same rights as me to enter Bulgaria.mym wrote:
You can also legally enter at the border with only your passports and proof you are married.
Furthermore, if you are later coming back to the UK after exercising a treaty right in Bulgaria you come under the terms of the "Surinder Singh" rules and have the right to bring your wife with you under EU law not UK law. So you can get a free EEA Family Permit and then a Residence Permit for her once here.
Good luck.
They may be thinking of the Akrich case which suggested that (to use UK terms) to apply for an EEAFP you must be legally present in an EEA state. Legally resident covers being somewhere even as a visitor.dreadnought wrote:mym wrote:Mym, just a quick follow up. Does it matter that we haven't been living in the UK? This seems to be the great sticking point with the Bulgarian Ministry. My wife has no EEA permit/UK visa/residency for the UK and this seems to be what they want for her to have the same rights as me to enter Bulgaria.
Don't worry. The Council of Minsters is the EU body which sets the Common Consular Instructions for States which have signed up to the various Directives concerning visas (Bulgaria will join Schengen in 2011 and has signed up to them).dreadnought wrote:My only concern is this vague part of those laws: "The visa shall be issued under conditions and by procedure, settled by the Council of Ministers, free of charge for processing the documents and issuing the visa." This sounds like a get out clause for the Ministry, allowing them to make individual distinctions based on individual cases.
Just a note of caution.. Although Directive 2004/38/EC looks good on paper, it may not guarantee your wife entry into Bulgaria.There is a topic elsewhere in the forum re: someone whose spouse ended up in jail after being refused entry to Spain under the directive.dreadnought wrote:Mym/Directive,
Just want to say a big thanks for all your help with this. Really appreciate all the info, I've contacted my future employer with all the information you gave me and I'm hoping he can present it to the Foreign Ministry and convince them of my - and more importantly my wife's - rights!
The fact that an internet discussion forum can provide me with more up to date, detailed and factual information than the actual Consulate of a country is a sad indictment of how poorly organised and prepared some of these countries are regarding immigration/visas.
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:
Going to the Uk will be more difficult than going to any other Eu country including Bulgaria. Good news is that having resided in Bulgaria will make it a lot easier for you to come back to the UK eventually (if you so wish), because you will be able to do so under EU law.
Thanks for the warning. We will definitely get a visa before we leave. I have absolutely no problem with that. We probably wouldn't get out of the Kyrgyz airport without one (they are pretty ignorant of EU Law!). I just want her to get a three month visa rather than a one month one and for her not to have to leave the country after one month.thirdwave wrote:
Just a note of caution.. Although Directive 2004/38/EC looks good on paper, it may not guarantee your wife entry into Bulgaria.There is a topic elsewhere in the forum re: someone whose spouse ended up in jail after being refused entry to Spain under the directive.
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=19589
If I were you, I would err on the side of caution and try and obtain a visa for your wife before travelling, especially to somewhere like Bulgaria, which has only recently joined the EU..
But relevant to the question asked.JAJ wrote:Not necessarily good advice if the spouse would like to become a British citizen sooner rather than later.
Show the embassy that response and get your visa before travelling.dreadnought wrote:Unbelievably, after all this fuss, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry have now finally stated unequivocally that if we turn up at Sofia Airport with proof of marriage etc, they will automatically grant her a three month visa. Thanks for everyone's help, as I thought, everyone here was right and they were wrong!!
The information was given to us over the phone so I can't really send it to the Embassy. There also seems to be a lack of communication between the Foreign Ministry and the Consulate and an unwillingness to deal with our case. On a practical level, the nearest Consulate is in the next country (Kazakhstan) and it is very difficult (and expensive) for my wife to get there and get back. If we can do it without going to the Consulate, that would be the ideal situation, but I understand if I have to.mym wrote:Show the embassy that response and get your visa before travelling.dreadnought wrote:Unbelievably, after all this fuss, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry have now finally stated unequivocally that if we turn up at Sofia Airport with proof of marriage etc, they will automatically grant her a three month visa. Thanks for everyone's help, as I thought, everyone here was right and they were wrong!!
Yes, they definitely would. Kyrgyz people need a visa for just about everywhere The big problem is that there doesn't seem to be any direct communication between the Foreign Ministry in Sofia and the nearest Bulgarian Consulate in Kazakhstan. They are still stubbornly insisting we can only get a one month visa, and we're not sure how we can persuade them otherwise. To be honest, Consulates and Embassies in this part of the world do not attract the brightest employees and it can be pointless continuing to argue with them as they will often just put the phone down...Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Would somebody from Kyrgyzstan normally require a visa to Bulgaria?
If so, the local Bulgarian embassy should issue a visa for your wife, covering the whole period, at no cost and on the basis of an accelerated process.
And please do not forget to travel with your marriage certificate. If it is not in English or from an major EU country, I would recommend that you also if possible get offically sanctioned translation.