UK Citizen with Kyrgyz wife moving to Bulgaria need help!

[dreadnought]

This board has been a real mine of information for me and I'm hoping that someone can help me with my predicament. It's a little complicated, so please bear with me if I don't explain it perfectly..

I'm a UK citizen, married to a woman from Kyrgyzstan and we have a two year old son who has British citizenship. We have spent most of our married life abroad (in either Kyrgyzstan or Korea) because of my work so my wife has no kind of British residency/EEA permit etc.

At the beginning of March we are all going to Bulgaria for three months or possibly longer because I have some work there to do. I assumed, because she is the spouse of an EU citizen, that it would be relatively easy for her to get an extended visa or at least to get a short-term visa to stay in Bulgaria and then get it extended when we arrive there. However, numerous phone calls to both Bulgaria and to their nearest consulate to us in Kazakhstan have revealed that they will only grant her a thirty day visa, after which she MUST leave the country. They siad that she can then go back home and start the application for a longer term visa there. Obviously this is incredibly difficult for us as I'll be working there, we've got a child and it's not cheap to fly back and forth to Kyrgyzstan.

Anyhow, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry told us (through an intermediary) that it would be easier for her to get a longer term visa if she had some kind of residency permit from Britain. I am not really sure exactly what document they are talking about and they seemed reluctant to give that information. However, we almost never go back to Britain because of my job so any document based on her living there is just not possible for us.

Ok, basically I am asking whether anyone knows how she could extend her visa in Bulgaria without having to go all the way back to Kyrgyzstan and starting the process from there? And preferably without leaving the country at all? Could we apply for a UK visa/EEA family permit from the British Embassy in Bulgaria and would that help her to extend her visa there?

I've been reading lots of EU/UK rules and regulations trying to find answers to these questions, and we've phoned up various UK/Bulgaria embassies/consulates to try to get clarification, but noone seems willing or able to give us clear information on this. If anyone could help I would be really grateful.

I wasn't quite sure what forum to post this in, so apologies if I've put it in the wrong one.

[thirdwave]

This board has been a real mine of information for me and I'm hoping that someone can help me with my predicament. It's a little complicated, so please bear with me if I don't explain it perfectly..

I'm a UK citizen, married to a woman from Kyrgyzstan and we have a two year old son who has British citizenship. We have spent most of our married life abroad (in either Kyrgyzstan or Korea) because of my work so my wife has no kind of British residency/EEA permit etc.

At the beginning of March we are all going to Bulgaria for three months or possibly longer because I have some work there to do. I assumed, because she is the spouse of an EU citizen, that it would be relatively easy for her to get an extended visa or at least to get a short-term visa to stay in Bulgaria and then get it extended when we arrive there. However, numerous phone calls to both Bulgaria and to their nearest consulate to us in Kazakhstan have revealed that they will only grant her a thirty day visa, after which she MUST leave the country. They siad that she can then go back home and start the application for a longer term visa there. Obviously this is incredibly difficult for us as I'll be working there, we've got a child and it's not cheap to fly back and forth to Kyrgyzstan.

Anyhow, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry told us (through an intermediary) that it would be easier for her to get a longer term visa if she had some kind of residency permit from Britain. I am not really sure exactly what document they are talking about and they seemed reluctant to give that information. However, we almost never go back to Britain because of my job so any document based on her living there is just not possible for us.

Ok, basically I am asking whether anyone knows how she could extend her visa in Bulgaria without having to go all the way back to Kyrgyzstan and starting the process from there? And preferably without leaving the country at all? Could we apply for a UK visa/EEA family permit from the British Embassy in Bulgaria and would that help her to extend her visa there?

I've been reading lots of EU/UK rules and regulations trying to find answers to these questions, and we've phoned up various UK/Bulgaria embassies/consulates to try to get clarification, but noone seems willing or able to give us clear information on this. If anyone could help I would be really grateful.

I wasn't quite sure what forum to post this in, so apologies if I've put it in the wrong one.

How long have you been married for? If you have been married for more than 4 years, your wife would qualify for Indefinite Leave to Enter (ILE)

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukresi ... ilpartner/

Contact your local British Dip Mission for more details..

[mym]

Hello dreadnought.

The bulgarian embassy is talking crap.

Bulgaria has transposed Directive 2004/38/EC into it's law so your wife has an *absolute* right to enter Bulgaria with you for three months for any reason, and longer if you are exercising a treaty right (working for example). They *have* to issue a visa permitting her to enter, for free, and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

An english copy of the transposition is at http://www.ambsofia.um.dk/NR/rdonlyres/ ... RINGBG.doc.

You can also legally enter at the border with only your passports and proof you are married.

Furthermore, if you are later coming back to the UK after exercising a treaty right in Bulgaria you come under the terms of the "Surinder Singh" rules and have the right to bring your wife with you under EU law not UK law. So you can get a free EEA Family Permit and then a Residence Permit for her once here.

Good luck.

[dreadnought]

Hello dreadnought.

The bulgarian embassy is talking crap.

Bulgaria has transposed Directive 2004/38/EC into it's law so your wife has an *absolute* right to enter Bulgaria with you for three months for any reason, and longer if you are exercising a treaty right (working for example). They *have* to issue a visa permitting her to enter, for free, and on the basis of an accelerated procedure.

An english copy of the transposition is at http://www.ambsofia.um.dk/NR/rdonlyres/ ... RINGBG.doc.

You can also legally enter at the border with only your passports and proof you are married.

Furthermore, if you are later coming back to the UK after exercising a treaty right in Bulgaria you come under the terms of the "Surinder Singh" rules and have the right to bring your wife with you under EU law not UK law. So you can get a free EEA Family Permit and then a Residence Permit for her once here.

Good luck.

Thanks Mym for your comments and research. I really hope this is true. My only concern is this vague part of those laws: "The visa shall be issued under conditions and by procedure, settled by the Council of Ministers, free of charge for processing the documents and issuing the visa." This sounds like a get out clause for the Ministry, allowing them to make individual distinctions based on individual cases.

If my wife does have the right to stay for longer than a month, what is my next move? Who should I contact to explain/demand those rights? We only have about a month before we leave so we don't have long to establish exactly what visa she should be entitled to. I would be truly, truly grateful for any advice you can give.

[dreadnought]

How long have you been married for? If you have been married for more than 4 years, your wife would qualify for Indefinite Leave to Enter (ILE)

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/ukresi ... ilpartner/

Contact your local British Dip Mission for more details..

Unfortunately, we've only been married for about 2.5 years so I don't think that would apply to us just yet. But thanks for the link, definitely something we'll consider in a few years time.

[dreadnought]

You can also legally enter at the border with only your passports and proof you are married.

Furthermore, if you are later coming back to the UK after exercising a treaty right in Bulgaria you come under the terms of the "Surinder Singh" rules and have the right to bring your wife with you under EU law not UK law. So you can get a free EEA Family Permit and then a Residence Permit for her once here.

Good luck.

Mym, just a quick follow up. Does it matter that we haven't been living in the UK? This seems to be the great sticking point with the Bulgarian Ministry. My wife has no EEA permit/UK visa/residency for the UK and this seems to be what they want for her to have the same rights as me to enter Bulgaria.

[mym]

Mym, just a quick follow up. Does it matter that we haven't been living in the UK? This seems to be the great sticking point with the Bulgarian Ministry. My wife has no EEA permit/UK visa/residency for the UK and this seems to be what they want for her to have the same rights as me to enter Bulgaria.

They may be thinking of the Akrich case which suggested that (to use UK terms) to apply for an EEAFP you must be legally present in an EEA state. Legally resident covers being somewhere even as a visitor.

However there is no doubt about the fact that you are entitled to entry at the border on presentation of your passports and proof of the family relationship. Even the bulgarian document confirms that:

Article 4 (5) In event that an European Union citizen or a member of his/her family, who is not European Union citizen, has none of the documents under para 1 and 2, prior to undertaking actions for non-admission, he/she shall be given the opportunity to obtain the documents required or to certify by other means that he/she is entitled to free movement.

Once in she is covered by

Article 6 (2) A family member who is not European Union citizen shall reside in the Republic of Bulgaria with passport within a term of up to three months from the date of entry in the country.

That applies even if you decide not to go the passports + marriage certificate route and apply for the visit visa they are trying to push you into getting. Once you are in, by whatever means, you still have the same rights and can then both apply for residence documents if you wish to.

[mym]

My only concern is this vague part of those laws: "The visa shall be issued under conditions and by procedure, settled by the Council of Ministers, free of charge for processing the documents and issuing the visa." This sounds like a get out clause for the Ministry, allowing them to make individual distinctions based on individual cases.

Don't worry. The Council of Minsters is the EU body which sets the Common Consular Instructions for States which have signed up to the various Directives concerning visas (Bulgaria will join Schengen in 2011 and has signed up to them).

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

The bulgarians are talking crap. To give them credit, it is a big change to enter the EU and even the Irish are having some trouble with the Directive (and they have been in Europe for a lot longer!).

Does your wife normally need a visa to enter Bulgaria?

Going to the Uk will be more difficult than going to any other Eu country including Bulgaria. Good news is that having resided in Bulgaria will make it a lot easier for you to come back to the UK eventually (if you so wish), because you will be able to do so under EU law. (When in Blugaria you should get a free EEA family permit from the UK embassy for a quick weekend visit to the UK to mark your rights to use EU law to enter the UK).

I would suggest you
- contact http://ec.europa.eu/citizensrights/ about your situation
- read about Directive 2004/38/EC
- contact http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/ for help in dealing with the Bulgarians

[dreadnought]

Mym/Directive,

Just want to say a big thanks for all your help with this. Really appreciate all the info, I've contacted my future employer with all the information you gave me and I'm hoping he can present it to the Foreign Ministry and convince them of my - and more importantly my wife's - rights!

The fact that an internet discussion forum can provide me with more up to date, detailed and factual information than the actual Consulate of a country is a sad indictment of how poorly organised and prepared some of these countries are regarding immigration/visas.

[thirdwave]

Mym/Directive,

Just want to say a big thanks for all your help with this. Really appreciate all the info, I've contacted my future employer with all the information you gave me and I'm hoping he can present it to the Foreign Ministry and convince them of my - and more importantly my wife's - rights!

The fact that an internet discussion forum can provide me with more up to date, detailed and factual information than the actual Consulate of a country is a sad indictment of how poorly organised and prepared some of these countries are regarding immigration/visas.

Just a note of caution.. Although Directive 2004/38/EC looks good on paper, it may not guarantee your wife entry into Bulgaria.There is a topic elsewhere in the forum re: someone whose spouse ended up in jail after being refused entry to Spain under the directive.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=19589

If I were you, I would err on the side of caution and try and obtain a visa for your wife before travelling, especially to somewhere like Bulgaria, which has only recently joined the EU..

[JAJ]

Going to the Uk will be more difficult than going to any other Eu country including Bulgaria. Good news is that having resided in Bulgaria will make it a lot easier for you to come back to the UK eventually (if you so wish), because you will be able to do so under EU law.

Not necessarily good advice if the spouse would like to become a British citizen sooner rather than later.

[dreadnought]

Just a note of caution.. Although Directive 2004/38/EC looks good on paper, it may not guarantee your wife entry into Bulgaria.There is a topic elsewhere in the forum re: someone whose spouse ended up in jail after being refused entry to Spain under the directive.

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewtopic.php?t=19589

If I were you, I would err on the side of caution and try and obtain a visa for your wife before travelling, especially to somewhere like Bulgaria, which has only recently joined the EU..

Thanks for the warning. We will definitely get a visa before we leave. I have absolutely no problem with that. We probably wouldn't get out of the Kyrgyz airport without one (they are pretty ignorant of EU Law!). I just want her to get a three month visa rather than a one month one and for her not to have to leave the country after one month.

Just one further scenario: my feeling is that we won't be able to get anything done before the end of February when we leave and my wife will be stuck with a one month visa. What are the chances of me being able to ask/demand a three month visa when we get to the airport in Bulgaria? Or when I'm inside Bulgaria, particularly if we can produce all the relevant documentation? Do you think it would be wise for me to do that?

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

If you contact Solvit ASAP, you may still have time to arrange a visa covering the full period.

Your backup option is also decent. When you arrive, you can then apply for a Residence Card for your wife. Again, I would strongly encourage you to contact Solvit NOW to make the whole process smooth and quick.

See http://eumovement.wordpress.com/help-eu-solvit/ for more info about Solvit

[mym]

Not necessarily good advice if the spouse would like to become a British citizen sooner rather than later.

But relevant to the question asked.

Are you going to explain why, for the benefit of any new readers who don't know about the different qualifying periods, or were you just popping in to make a vaguely worrying gnomic comment? :)

[dreadnought]

Again, thanks for all the advice/support guys, really helpful.

Ok, there have been several updates today. Firstly I got a response from EU signpost service, an online help service dealing with issues regarding EU law. They wrote a long response to my inquiry, which I won't reprint, but the upshot was that Bulgaria are misapplying Directive 2004/38. They said I should contact Solvit to try and deal with this. I plan to do this very soon.

Naturally I was happy about this, at least to get this confirmation. I contacted my future employer in Bulgaria and asked him to phone around a bit, the Foreign Ministry etc, quote the response from Signpost and see if he could clarify that my wife could get an extended visa.

However, he then got the response that Bulgaria have implemented some new law (2008) that contradicts Directive 2004/38. Hmm, interesting. I have no idea what this is exactly, or even if they can do this as a transitional state, but I have spent the last 30 minutes googling this and I can't find anything about a new immigration law in Bulgaria in 2008.

Can anyone help with this? Maybe someone has better googling skills than me and can find something out about this mysterious law. I would be truly grateful.

[dreadnought]

Unbelievably, after all this fuss, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry have now finally stated unequivocally that if we turn up at Sofia Airport with proof of marriage etc, they will automatically grant her a three month visa. Thanks for everyone's help, as I thought, everyone here was right and they were wrong!!

Just one more question (please!): my only concern now about my wife travelling without a visa relates to airports/airlines. We are flying to Bulgaria from Kyrgyzstan via Istanbul with Turkish Airlines. How can we ensure that Turkish airlines will agree to board my wife and that passport control in Kyrgyzstan/Turkey will let her through? Clearly, many people are misinformed about the current laws, and I'm particularly worried about the airport in Kyrgyzstan. The immigration officials are very poorly informed even about their own country's regulations, so I'm worried about how they will react when they see no visa in her passport. Their general response is to demand a visa from any Kyrgyz citizen because they pretty much need a visa for everywhere!! Is it worth contacting the airport/airline before we leave? And what should we tell them?

Would appreciate any advice from people with experience travelling under these circumstances.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Would somebody from Kyrgyzstan normally require a visa to Bulgaria?

If so, the local Bulgarian embassy should issue a visa for your wife, covering the whole period, at no cost and on the basis of an accelerated process.

And please do not forget to travel with your marriage certificate. If it is not in English or from an major EU country, I would recommend that you also if possible get offically sanctioned translation.

[mym]

Unbelievably, after all this fuss, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry have now finally stated unequivocally that if we turn up at Sofia Airport with proof of marriage etc, they will automatically grant her a three month visa. Thanks for everyone's help, as I thought, everyone here was right and they were wrong!!

Show the embassy that response and get your visa before travelling.

[dreadnought]

Unbelievably, after all this fuss, the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry have now finally stated unequivocally that if we turn up at Sofia Airport with proof of marriage etc, they will automatically grant her a three month visa. Thanks for everyone's help, as I thought, everyone here was right and they were wrong!!

Show the embassy that response and get your visa before travelling.

The information was given to us over the phone so I can't really send it to the Embassy. There also seems to be a lack of communication between the Foreign Ministry and the Consulate and an unwillingness to deal with our case. On a practical level, the nearest Consulate is in the next country (Kazakhstan) and it is very difficult (and expensive) for my wife to get there and get back. If we can do it without going to the Consulate, that would be the ideal situation, but I understand if I have to.

[dreadnought]

Would somebody from Kyrgyzstan normally require a visa to Bulgaria?

If so, the local Bulgarian embassy should issue a visa for your wife, covering the whole period, at no cost and on the basis of an accelerated process.

And please do not forget to travel with your marriage certificate. If it is not in English or from an major EU country, I would recommend that you also if possible get offically sanctioned translation.

Yes, they definitely would. Kyrgyz people need a visa for just about everywhere The big problem is that there doesn't seem to be any direct communication between the Foreign Ministry in Sofia and the nearest Bulgarian Consulate in Kazakhstan. They are still stubbornly insisting we can only get a one month visa, and we're not sure how we can persuade them otherwise. To be honest, Consulates and Embassies in this part of the world do not attract the brightest employees and it can be pointless continuing to argue with them as they will often just put the phone down...

We have all the relevant documentation related to our marriage, a notarised translation, we also have our son's birth certificate (issued in UK) which has both our names on it. We can definitely prove we're married! I don't know if it's worth just risking it and trying to get to Sofia without a visa. But again, I am concerned about the airlines/airports.

[Directive/2004/38/EC]

Again, I suggest you contact Solvit for their assistance.

[dreadnought]

Again, I suggest you contact Solvit for their assistance.

I sent a completed complaint form and also relevant emails to Solvit Bulgaria but I haven't heard back from them yet...it's only been a few days

[dreadnought]

Just one quick question:

Can anyone locate a Russian translation of Directive/2004/38/EC? I may need this at the Kyrgyz airport but I can't seem to find it anywhere online. Any help appreciated.

[dreadnought]

I'm updating this thread because I wanted to seek further help from the wise denizens of the forum.

After a long, complicated back and forth with the Bulgarian Consulate, intervention with Solvit and presenting them with documents that people on this forum directed me to, my wife finally got a three-month visa for Bulgaria and we are now happily settled in Sofia.

However, nothing is ever easy of course and we've now got the next hurdle to get over. My wife's visa is for three months, however I'm going to be working here for at least four months (possibly longer) so we need to extend her visa to a long term one. The people in my office where I work have been in touch with the Bulgarian Foreign Ministry and they are saying that my wife will have to leave the country to be able to apply for a longer term visa (she currently has a C Type visa and she needs a D Type visa). This would be extremely inconvenient for us since I'm working all the time, we have a very young child and I am not sure if and when we could leave the country to make the application.

Could anyone help with any info? Is it correct that she must leave the country or is this another misapplication of EU Law? Any advice, as always, extremely welcome.