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Rights of spouse(non-EU) of EU national in France/Switz?

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startg
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Rights of spouse(non-EU) of EU national in France/Switz?

Post by startg » Tue Nov 02, 2004 4:40 pm

Hello, questions for someone with practical experience here I think.

I am British. I wish to live in France or Switzerland with my Brazilian wife.
There are 3 possibilities :
1) I will live in France and work in Switzerland.
2) I will live and work in Switzerland.
3) I will live and work in France.
In all cases I want her to have the right to live and work.

For possibility 3 I know that in theory she has the right to a work permit in France as the spouse of an EU citizen if I am there, however back in 1992 I found it impossible to obtain this for my then New Zealand wife(no jokes about my work in international relations please!). How does one actually obtain the work permit? - last time all routes were blocked at the mairie by rude, dearly beloved and obstructive officials. Showing them the EU directive stating her rights was greeted with a Gallic shrug. Perhaps things have moved on?
Links to French websites are OK as I speak and read it well. Thanks in advance.

For possibilities 1 and 2, I have no idea of either the law or of how to persuade unsackable French fonctionnaires to follow the law. I have no experience of dealing with the Swiss authorities, but expect them to be fairly protective of the Swiss labour market.

I would be very grateful for all advice and information.
Thanks.

calai
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Location: Switzerland, Ireland & UK

Post by calai » Sun Nov 07, 2004 11:05 pm

Hi There,

I try to give you an idea about working and living in Switzerland. I am not sure about things in France but have been living in 2 cantons in French Switzerland for a few years.

As your wife is married to an EU citizen, she should be entitled to work and live in the EU. I don't know your profession and how long have you and your wife been married. I guess you and your wife can obtain the French nationality but not the Swiss nationality. So, if you are considering moving over for obtaining another nationality, go to France. To settle in Switzerland, you have to obtain a permit 'C', which gives you the rights equivalent to ILR in UK. This usually takes you over 10 years, providing you stay in the same canton legally, intend to settle there and pass the language exam. If any one of you is below 20 years old, each year you spend in Switzerland would be counted as double. (So, staying there for 6 years may be ok for settlement) You and your wife would not get the Swiss passport but your children would get one if they are born in Switzerland and you have a C permit at the time.

Personally, I think living in France and working in Switzerland may be a good idea as living standard would be lower in France and the salary would be higher in Switzerland (minimum salary is Swiss Francs 2050 per month). Take Geneva as an example, the salary is the highest in French Switzerland but the tax is also higher. You may find a job in the United Nations and the process of obtaining the permit may be easier. You can choose to live in the French border Ferney, the living cost may be 20% less than Geneva and it take sabout 30 - 40 mins to travel to Geneva.
The English people who i know are working here as English teachers, translators, accountants, bankers, for insurance companies or United Nations.

To live and work in Switzerland, there are different types of permits:

L Permit - with limited duration, usually for summer job seekers, issued by employer for anything up to 9 months and cannot be extended.

B permit - both for students and workers, usually issued and can be extended annually, it's the proper type of permit you are likely to get if you are both living and working in Switzerland. After staying in a same canton under B permit for 10 years, you may ask how to obtain a C permit.

G permit - for transit workers, or people who lives near the border, cannot lead to settlement.

The appropriate name of the permit is called
Ausländerausweis (German)/Livert pour étrangers (French)/Libretto per stranieri (Italian)/Legitimaziun d'esters (Romansch)
You have to change your permit if you change your address and/or employer. Different cantons have different quotas for certain types of permits. B permit is the best type if you intend to get a bank account with credit cards or sign a contract with a mobile phone company.

I am not sure if the system has changed but would let you know. According to the old system, EU nationals would obtain a B work permit for 1 year or 2 years, you have to stay with the same job and the same employer for 2 years, then you can change your employer but not your profession for the next 3 years. Although you have to change your permit when you change your canton, you would be able to move and work in different cantons if your new employer would obtain a new permit for you.

The Swiss are not dearly beloved, but can be very reserved and conservative. They are hard working, efficient, but do not expect to deal with all administrative processes in a short time. They are very honest in most cases but very strict and not open minded at the same time. English is not widely spoken outside tourist places (like tourist office, train station and hotel). Geneva and the German cantons such as Zürich and Basel are easier to survive for English speakers.
It can be a big problem to find accommodation if you are living in Switzerland for less than 1 year. For any questions, please do not hesitate to ask as I'm leaving Switzerland shortly.

Cheers,
Caroline

startg
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Post by startg » Tue Nov 09, 2004 3:34 pm

Thanks very much for taking the time to write your post - I'm unsure from it whether my wife would have the right to work or even live in Switzerland. This is what concerns me as if I work there the employer are likely to handle my permit application(I work in IT). I guess she could work on the French side of the border if there is any work on that side.
Neither of us are interested in Swiss nationality but thanks for the info.

By a fortunate coincidence both I and my wife speak French, although she can't write it well.
In fact I'm fairly familiar with Geneva(but not with rules regarding partners and wives etc). However the only current job prospect for me is in Lausanne.

John
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Location: Birmingham, England
United Kingdom

Switzerland to join the Schengen area

Post by John » Sun Nov 14, 2004 9:21 pm

I don't know when it takes effect but :-

Switzerland Joins Passport-Free Zone

Once that has taken effect .... all the questions posed by "startg" will have distinctly easier answers!

Does anyone know when the agreements signed by Switzerland last month actually take effect?

calai
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Posts: 34
Joined: Mon Oct 25, 2004 12:07 am
Location: Switzerland, Ireland & UK

Post by calai » Sun Dec 19, 2004 8:56 pm

Hi there,

John is right. Now, all EU member can work and live in Switzerland without the need of a residence/work permit. It is the same for Swiss citizens vice versa. Startg, Lausanne is a very nice city with a steep slope and around lake Geneva. Dont miss the chance to work in this lovely place. I used to live in the Canton of Vaud (where Lausanne is) and the living standard is ok compare to Geneva. There are elegant buildings, university and great places for going out.

Caroline

aj77
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Post by aj77 » Fri Jan 14, 2005 12:30 am

I have residence Permit of UK for 3 years as Highly Skilled Migrant. But I am non-EU national.Will I need to get work permit or I can also moved to switzerland for work without Work permit?

calai
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Post by calai » Sun Feb 06, 2005 9:18 pm

aj77,

I think you still need to be qualified as a British national/a British passport holder to be able to work in Switzerland. You need to be EU national, even ILR does not help in this case. Anyway, it is not easy to start a job/life in Switzerland, especially for non-EU nationals. Situations change in different cantons (counties), so make sure you get the right information of the city/town you would be moving to.

Caroline

John
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Location: Birmingham, England
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Post by John » Sun Feb 06, 2005 10:37 pm

Calai, I totally agree with your advice to aj77. Nationality of EEA country, or Switzerland, needed before you can invoke the right to work or work in any other EEA/Switzerland country ... except such rights extended to others who are family members of an EEA/Swiss citizen.
John

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