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Nationals of Turkey need a visa to enter Germany; see (http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/diplo/de ... licht.html).Heike wrote:I'm German with a Turkish husband who just got his 4EUFam card today. We both live and work in Ireland. I checked Germany's visa rules and it states that spouses of EU-nationals but NOT Germans who have this 4EUFam card do not need a visa if they are travelling together.
I checked with the embassy in Dublin today and was advised that he still needs a visa. Why is there a difference whether I'm German or any other EU-National?? Doesn't make sense to me. Are they right in what they are saying?
We have a son with an Irish passport. Does that make a difference in him needing a visa or not?
If he's travelling with your minor Irish son, the judgement in the Chen case by the ECJ applies...still, I would anticipate that he would not have a smooth ride because of border control officers not being familiar with ECJ ruling.Heike wrote:Thanks,
But then what if he goes to Germany just with our son. As a family member of an Irish citizen he should not need a visa as per this EU treaty rights? Right?
This is not correct. She is exercising treaty rights in Ireland, so EU law governs the entry of her family to Germany when she "returns". This is very clear, and is true if she move to Germany or goes for a few days.cantaro wrote:While EU nationals can visit another EU/EEA country without a visa, this does not automatically apply to their spouses. Your husband's Irish residence permit will be deemed equivalent to a short-stay (tourist) visa by other EU states; however, when you travel to Germany, German law will apply instead of EU law because you are a German citizen
This is a difficult question. You do have a valid Residence Card so they should let you on board. You can also consider having seperate bookings. The EU citizen checks baggage. The non-EU checks in online and if they deny the non-EU citizen boarding then they have to remove the bags from the plane.ca.funke wrote: - if EU-Law really applies, how can we ensure that the airline will let us board the plane? (compared to the passport-check on arrival in Germany, which may work out after some complication, boarding is time-critical. What to do if we are refused boarding due to "lack of visa" from the airlines' perspective?)
I do not see why this should matter. It is your wife who has the right of free movement so long as she is married to you, and you are exercising treaty rights as a German (or Belgian) citizen. And she has a Residence Card!ca.funke wrote: - I also have a Belgian passport (dual citizenship). However, in this regard I was told that while in Germany I am considered "German" only, and cannot claim any rights from my Belgian nationality. --> Thus, if your Irish son also has a German passport, then this might not be an option?
I do not see any reason to do this, as the Germans working the border generally seem quite aware of the law. But there is nothing wrong with flying to any EU member state, including Belgium or the Netherlands or Greece, even if you plan to stay there for only a few hours before going off somewhere else.ca.funke wrote: - What happens, if we fly to Belgium and then cross the land-border? There are no checkpoints, I would just like to know how "criminal" this is, should we be "caught"?
What exactly did you ask them and what exactly did they answer? Directive 2004/38/EC has been implemented in the UK. They just don't like respecting Residence Cards issued by other member states. You can get the EEA family permit. Apply for it and explain that you want to go to Ikea in Belfast several times over the next 6 months. It should be quickly issued. If you need to travel without having the proper visa, then be sure to travel with your marriage certificate and both passports, and carry a copy of Directive 2004/38/ECca.funke wrote: - I asked the UK-embassy in Dublin, if we need a visa for the UK. They say that Directive/2004/38/EC does not apply in the UK as they have an exemption from it, and we need "entry clearance" for the UK. Is this true? (We would love to be able to shop in IKEA in Belfast, without taking a day off to apply for the visa before)
In general you are correct. And that is definitely true if a German citizen resident in the US marries a Canadian and they want to move back to Germany.cantaro wrote:I think there is some misunderstanding here as to whom the provisions of Directive 2004/38/EC really apply. Generally they apply to any citizen of a participating country (and their relatives) in relation to any participating country other than that of which they are a citizen. Therefore, if Heike goes to Germany, and she is a German citizen, the Directive does not apply to her and her relatives.
cantaro wrote:Off topic: Heike, if you were a German citizen at the time of your son's birth, he is probably a German citizen as well, and can get a German passport. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_nat ... man_parent which also has references to the relevant legal texts.
Heike wrote: ... I have and never had any intention of him becoming German. I'm so fed up with all their stupid rules, bureaucracy, unfriendliness and especially their attitude towards my Turkish husband each time we are at border control. Don't even get me started on this
I'm glad our son is Irish...
While I completely understand your attitude, it is not a question of your son becoming German, for which he would have to renounce his Irish citizenship. Most likely he already is German by virtue of being born to a German parent. The same seems to be true for the Turkish citizenship: he is most likely Turkish by virtue of being born to a Turkish parent. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_nationality_law for more information. That means that your son has three nationalities and can carry three different passports.Heike wrote:I have and never had any intention of him becoming German. I'm so fed up with all their stupid rules, [...]
Do you have a web link to where it says this in Germany’s visa rules? Or the exact text of this statement?Heike wrote:I'm German with a Turkish husband who just got his 4EUFam card today. We both live and work in Ireland. I checked Germany's visa rules and it states that spouses of EU-nationals but NOT Germans who have this 4EUFam card do not need a visa if they are travelling together.
I can show you my email to the ministry of foreign affairs and their answer. It's in German though...Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Do you have a web link to where it says this in Germany’s visa rules? Or the exact text of this statement?
Directive/2004/38/EC wrote:Do you have a web link to where it says this in Germany’s visa rules? Or the exact text of this statement?Heike wrote:I'm German with a Turkish husband who just got his 4EUFam card today. We both live and work in Ireland. I checked Germany's visa rules and it states that spouses of EU-nationals but NOT Germans who have this 4EUFam card do not need a visa if they are travelling together.
I don't think that it is good news if a spouse of a German citizen still needs a visa to go to Germany. I have a family and friends in Germany who we want to visit..... So, this would be most of the travelling we would do in the EU.microlab wrote:I belive its good news.His wife can go to any EU-Country together with him without visa
When will others introduce this I wonder
Sorry, I should have put that is good news for people with 4EUFam cards.I don't think that it is good news
Spot onBefore I am not 100% certain that all the Schengen states have implemented the Directive properly, and that all the airlines are aware of our rights I won't go anywhere without making sure I have a visa. Saves just so much hassle. There is nothing worse then going away and having to deal and argue with some immigration officer who is not aware of our rights.