VAF4A Spouse and Child Dependant

[Obie]

What is your current gross annual income?

[Londoner007]

£22,100 but have £23,430 savings in a accessible account in my name held for past 3 months.

Accom

[Londoner007]

£22,100 but have £23,430 savings in a accessible account in my name held for past 2 months.

Accomadation etc all satisfied. I was initially just going to wait for 4 months and make 2 x VAF4A applications.

[Obie]

I find your case most interesting.

[Londoner007]

I find this case most confusing!

[Obie]

Which case?

[Casa]

Which case?

Obie I believe that Londoner007 means that while you find his case interesting, he finds it confusing.

[Obie]

Thanks Susi. I was in doubt.

I find the section 3 (2) aspect quitell interesting .

VAF4 is routine.

I find 3 (2) funny as the burden imposed is so much, that I dobut how a parent will be able to satisfy or discharge it, without the input of grandparent who may have died or estranged from the applicant.

[Londoner007]

Thanks Cas

Spot on Obie, and this is one of the points I was planning to raise in the extra information bit. It is very hard to get hold of documentation etc when the people involved are now deceased.

The more I ponder and dig into this the more VAF4A route seems easier and worth more of the effort. But MN1 route also seems as though it does have slight chance of being accepted.

[Obie]

If the child can be registered, then it makes sense to do it, and then you can focus on the wife's visa.

Your case require a bit of penetration into the 1948 act and make a case that it is more likely than not that your father was a citizen of the colony at birth as opposed to citizen by descent.

[Londoner007]

Very interessting Obie. I need to check that out. Bangladesh was known as East Pakistan at that time period I believe. According to his passport he was born in East Pakistan which was part of the commonwealth and under 1949 act all citizens were given British subject status and shared commonwealth citizenship.

According to 1971 act it would appear his father would have had ROA as a citizen of common wealth. Who may have used that to migrate to UK. Whats interesting is that at that time according to 1971 act all ROA entitlees were known as British Citizen

[Obie]

What year was your father born?.

[secret.simon]

Given that Bangladesh became independent of the UK before the British Nationality Act 1948, the chances of your father being born a CUKC are quite slim. Bangladesh was a part of Pakistan between 1947 and 1971 and as such, it is likely that were your father born in that period, he would have been a Pakistani citizen at birth.

In my opinion, it is more likely that your father was registered as a British citizen after arrival in the UK later on (before 1983, Commonwealth citizens were registered as British citizens and other citizens naturalised). It may be worth contacting the National Archives to see if they have a copy of your father's registration or naturalisation certificate.

Note that if you were to register your child under Section 3(2), the child would also be a British citizen by descent and would probably have the same issues later on in life.

If you were to bring the child along with your wife on VAF4, after three years of the child living in the UK, the child could be registered as a British citizen under Section 3(5), which would make him/her a British citizen otherwise than by descent.

You will have to weigh the cost of one approach (VAF4+IHS+repeat in 2.5 years) versus fewer issues if your child were to marry abroad later on in life.

Further reading (drawing on Obie's observations):
British Nationality Act 1948
British Nationality: Summary
History of British Nationality Acts

[Londoner007]

Obie 1936 was date of birth.

Secret- many thanks for your input. This case is so interessting and frustrating at the same time. Will definately try find out from national archive. Would HO be worth a shout to see if they have any records?

In the balance of things would VAF4A be more straightforward provided need to wait for 4 months to meet financial criteria. Or by child being registered BC and applying for wife be easier due to already meeting financial requirement for that.

Thank you guys for following this thread

[secret.simon]

When did your grandfather move to the UK? And when did your father?

According to his passport he was born in East Pakistan which was part of the commonwealth and under 1949 act all citizens were given British subject status and shared commonwealth citizenship. According to 1971 act it would appear his father would have had ROA as a citizen of common wealth. Who may have used that to migrate to UK. Whats interesting is that at that time according to 1971 act all ROA entitlees were known as British Citizen

You are mixing up way too many diverse concepts here. I will come back to that if it is pertinent at that point in time.

[Obie]

I don't accept Simon''s view.

You father is likely to be born as citizens of UK and colonies at his birth than being registered.

[Londoner007]

Another development - checked with National Archive and my grandfather's record show:

1948 British Nationality Act: Duplicate Certificates of Registration as Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies > Certificates R1: registration under section 6(1). It is not 100% certain this record is of his.

[Londoner007]

Simon grandfather was born around 1915 and father 1938

On scales of things you have a very valid point about child facing same issues with passing on BC in future. Would VAF4A route be more straightforward than digging so deep for MN1 route?

[Londoner007]

I don't accept Simon''s view.

You father is likely to be born as citizens of UK and colonies at his birth than being registered.

If that is the case then what does that mean in terms of me and the child.

[secret.simon]

1948 British Nationality Act: Duplicate Certificates of Registration as Citizens of the United Kingdom and Colonies > Certificates R1: registration under section 6(1). It is not 100% certain this record is of his.

Assuming that the record is his, when is the registration dated?

As your father was born in then British India in 1936, he would likely also have been issued a registration certificate under Section 7. In that era, it is also not impossible (pure guesswork here) that he was named on your grandfather's registration certificate.

Providing you can get the copy of your father's registration certificate (either as a part of your grandfather's records or standalone), you can submit the following as proof of your citizenship by descent.
a) Father's registration certificate
b) Parents' marriage certificate
c) Your birth certificate

For your child's registration under Section 3(2) of the current Act, you will also need, in addition to the above,
d) Your and your wife's marriage certificate
e) Your child's birth certificate

If you were to go down the VAF4 route, you will still need the same proof if you were then planning to request registration under Section 3(5) after three years of the child residing in the UK. The only registration that would not require the proof above would be under Section 3(1) - a discretionary grant of registration by the Home Office - and that would typically only occur when your wife gets ILR. And a Section 3(1) grant would make your child a British citizen by descent as well.

To summarise, if you can marshal the proof above
a) Section 3(2) now will make your child a British citizen by descent, but save money.
b) Section 3(5) after three years of residing in the UK will make your child a British citizen otherwise than by descent, but cost in terms of VAF4+ILS+renewal costs.
c) Section 3(1) when your wife gets ILR (depends on her grasp of English and her absences from the UK) will not require much of the documentation above, but will make your child a British citizen by descent AND cost more than option (b) above.

Your call now.

Encourage your child to have their children born in the UK, irrespective of cultural norms. You can see how complicated the documentation has got with so many births outside the UK.

[fs1252]

Hi Can you please guide me through the full process as its a bit confusing

I pay health insurance first before application submission but how do I get IHS number

Do I pay for application first and then priority fee or they are charged together

My webpage show below links but it doesn't makes any sense what is first

Can you add an updated step by step guide, My wife is in Pakistan n I am applying from UK

thanks


Go To Application
Sign Declaration
BRP Collection Location
Book Appointment
Pay For IHS
Pay for Application
Print Application

[Londoner007]

secret.Simon - very useful info thanks. Record is dated 1970 for father and 1959 for grandfather. I have ordered both certificates and will see when they arrive.

From the looks of it Grandfather was naturalised and father was somehow either later naturalised or registered as citizen.

From enquiries made to relatives it appears father may have gained visa via other route and not directly via his father i.e. he may have gained citizenship via non descent route.

fs1252- You pay the surcharge as part of your application or when you book an appointment. If you’re applying for a visa by post, you must pay the healthcare surcharge online before you send your application - you’ll need to include the IHS reference number on your application form. You can check use this link to check: https://www.immigration-health-surcharg ... ment/start

[CR001]

Hi Can you please guide me through the full process as its a bit confusing

I pay health insurance first before application submission but how do I get IHS number

Do I pay for application first and then priority fee or they are charged together

My webpage show below links but it doesn't makes any sense what is first

Can you add an updated step by step guide, My wife is in Pakistan n I am applying from UK

thanks


Go To Application
Sign Declaration
BRP Collection Location
Book Appointment
Pay For IHS
Pay for Application
Print Application

Can you please stick to your own topic rather than tag onto another members unrelated topic, it is considered rude.

[Londoner007]

Thanks CR001.

Having thought through the 2 possible different ways citizenship has been attained by father I am thinking the following route may be possible

1)Great grandfather was naturalized (so BC otherwise than by descent) > Father naturalized in UK after entry (possibility he arrived without BC descent route if that's even possible), thus would have been BC otherwise than by decent > Citizenship passed to me as BC by descent > Grand child can use grandfathers BC otherwise than by descent to satisfy 3(2)

2)Great grandfather was naturalized > Father arrived UK as registered BC i.e by descent. > Cannot pass on Citizenship to me, so 3(2) was used via grandfather thus ROA given as a BC by descent > Grand Child cannot satisfy 3(2)

I think I need to double check the record HO have of me.

[Obie]

I wondered what document was supplied to the British High Commission when you were granted right of Abode to come ti the UK.