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Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2
12pay it is called RTI full submission (and does not have start stop dates, even though it is HMRC approved SW)zimba88 wrote:Answer to all of them is yes. FPS reports are what you need to send
I have tried migrating to moneysoft but I have too many employees/changing salary amounts e.g. bonus or raises/paternity and maternity leaves/child vouchers/salary in lieu of vacation etc etc. It becomes a mess. Not to mention it IS NOT the SW used to submit FPSzimba88 wrote:12pay does not generate reports with starter/leaver dates, which will not be accepted by HO
The fps report MUST show start and end dates or there's a very high probability your visa will be refused.seasky wrote:I have tried migrating to moneysoft but I have too many employees/changing salary amounts e.g. bonus or raises/paternity and maternity leaves/child vouchers/salary in lieu of vacation etc etc. It becomes a mess. Not to mention it IS NOT the SW used to submit FPSzimba88 wrote:12pay does not generate reports with starter/leaver dates, which will not be accepted by HO
So any ideas (again 12pay is HMRC approved)? Also it is abundantly clear that I have many multiples of 2 person years of FT employment just don't have the start/leave dates
I will explain this (with the page from HMRC showing approval of 12pay) and what else can I do? pencil in each report start/leavers (clearly this is not original but it is 'there' not sure what this is differnt then producing an unoriginal report via moneysoft?)
Much apreciated babylondoner your detailed reply. However I can 'almost' buy in to moving 'all' data to moneysoft, at least it is a 1:1 replica of what was sent via FPS, but moving partial data screams of fraud.babylondoner wrote:
The fps report MUST show start and end dates or there's a very high probability your visa will be refused.
Since you have so many employees, you do not have to include all of them with your application.
Pick two or three with at least 24 months employment between them in total (if you fall under the April 2014 route) and rerun their details on moneysoft. This way you will generate FPS results that are in line with HO requirements.
HMRC's requirements and HO's requirements are different. Just because a document generated in a particular format is accepted by HMRC does NOT mean the same document will be accepted by home office.
Home office doesn't care if you have employed 50 people or 1 person. All they care about is submitting the right documents in the format they've stipulated. You will not get more points for evidencing any more than 24 months employment with your application.
However, evidence 50 months employment in the wrong format and you risk a refusal.
Your covering letter has no bearing on the decision if your documents are missing the required information. This should be clear by now to you. Case workers follow the rules, they do not know anything about the Software differences. They will certainly ignore your covering letter.There will be no mind reading, it will be covered in detail in the cover letter. I will copy the HMRC page that shows that 12pay is approved.
Nobody is fudging anything unless the FPS submissions or payments you claim never happened. Using a different software to produced a report that is ONLY AND ONLY generated by software and has NOTHING to do with the actual submission data. Your submitted data is perfectly correct and submitted via RTI and is verifiable via HMRC system.I hope HO does not wake up in the future and suddenly say all those that 'fudged' the FPS report have an issues
it seems you are hell bent on doing things your own way. a cover letter won't help you because the document you insist on providing to HO does not contain the information that has been CLEARLY listed as a requirement by home office in the rules/guidance. i can only wish you the best of luck and hope you wont end up with ''only if i had known'' by the time you get a decision from home office. do not forget that there is nothing like an ''lower/upper tribunal appeal'' process again where you can argue your case on whether or not a particular software should be accepted.seasky wrote:
Much apreciated babylondoner your detailed reply. However I can 'almost' buy in to moving 'all' data to moneysoft, at least it is a 1:1 replica of what was sent via FPS, but moving partial data screams of fraud.
It is sad that home office does not care if you "have employed 50 people or 1 person"
FPS as I see it is a system of automated payment to HMRC saving HMRC and the company a huge amount of manual entries (and the mistakes humans make). There is a coded stamp attached to each automatic submission. You can also ask your SW to printout a report of 'what was automatically declared and paid' this is as you say a human readable snapshot made by YOUR SW.zimba88 wrote:Nobody is fudging anything unless the FPS submissions or payments you claim never happened. Using a different software to produced a report that is ONLY AND ONLY generated by software and has NOTHING to do with the actual submission data. Your submitted data is perfectly correct and submitted via RTI and is verifiable via HMRC system.I hope HO does not wake up in the future and suddenly say all those that 'fudged' the FPS report have an issues
AGAIN, FPS reports are simply SOFTWARE generated REPORTS. They just show a human readable snapshot of the tax/payments made to employees in each submission !!!!!
say you have money in the bank correctly for maintenance but your bank adviser went on a 3 week vacation to the Galapagos islands with a stopover in Santiago de Chile. So you take a previous bank statement and change the dates and the sums and submit. For clarification the data is 100% correct. is that OK?babylondoner wrote:
at the end of the day, you have created these jobs, you have paid your workers and you have also paid the corresponding tax and NI deductions to HMRC - this is all that counts legally. migrating to a new software that's HO approved is NOT fraud.
Well what you say does make sense (saying that do you have any evidence, even anecdotal that HO is OK with this?) but why go through moneysoft, why not just edit in PDF editor my FPS and add start/leave dates?zimba88 wrote:You have a choice.
You can argue, stand your ground and complain and discuss for months and months and look for facts. In the mean time, a junior HO case worker will conformably refuses your application in a heartbeat for failure to send an RTI submission showing start/end dates as REQUIRED in his/her little RULE BOOK and messes up your life (if you think about it the requirement itself is moronic given that RTI submission IS MANDATORY for all payroll reporting, there is no other way)
... Or you can give them a report as they require in a format with those specific information and get it over with
Remember: UK government has made is almost impossible to defend immigration applications on most grounds, they removed appeal rights completely, AR is pretty much useless and they also reduced the days to prepare a new application to merely 14 days if you are refused.
There is no room for arguing and fact checking as they are obviously not really interested. The way they formulated the the rules and requirements shows that they have zero interest in getting things right anyway. In fact they will be extremely delighted if you decided to leave the country and never return.
No but I am sure they want to see you paid taxes and hired employees. As long as you are not making a false claimsaying that do you have any evidence, even anecdotal that HO is OK with this?
Yes. And they want to see it in a specific format. So why not pdf editor?zimba88 wrote:No but I am sure they want to see you paid taxes and hired employees. As long as you are not making a false claimsaying that do you have any evidence, even anecdotal that HO is OK with this?