Visiting Germany with 4EUFam card

[ca.funke]

I'm German with a Turkish husband who just got his 4EUFam card today. We both live and work in Ireland. I checked Germany's visa rules and it states that spouses of EU-nationals but NOT Germans who have this 4EUFam card do not need a visa if they are travelling together.

Do you have a web link to where it says this in Germany’s visa rules? Or the exact text of this statement?

Sure:

http://www.dublin.diplo.de/Vertretung/d ... =Daten.pdf

Red text on the last page.

The above email from the German department of Foreign affairs tells us exactly the same. His wife can go to any EU-Country together with him without visa - except to Germany.

Regards,
Heike

Hi Heike,

thanks for the link! That's really helpful, I never knew this from such "official" sources.

Can anyone tell me about the UK? Why did they write to me that they (think they) are "excempt" from this directive?

Thanks and regards, Christian

[ca.funke]

Being German myself, I am not sure why that is such a problem. Slight inconvenience...yes, but not really a problem.

I much prefer having a valid Schengen Visa in my wifes passport then having to argue with the Airline Staff every time to let us board a plane to any of the Schengen States. (and that's often enough the real problem) If you are married getting the visa as a the spouse of a German citizen is a bliss. Sent in the application via mail, provide a passport picture, both passports and the marriage certificate and they will issue a visa free of charge within a few days (usually 3 to 5 days). Usually the German Embassy issues a 1 year multiple entry Visa to Spouses of german citizens.

Before I am not 100% certain that all the Schengen states have implemented the Directive properly, and that all the airlines are aware of our rights I won't go anywhere without making sure I have a visa. Saves just so much hassle. There is nothing worse then going away and having to deal and argue with some immigration officer who is not aware of our rights.

But that's juts my opinion.

Hi there,

how did you get the multiple-Schengen? We were told that they will give us a single-entry first, and after that maybe multiple for 1/2 year, later a year etc...

The only thing I want to avoid is standing in queues forever, over and over again...

I don't see why Germany is so complicated about this: They have no advantage from this at all. If we wanted to get there "illegally" it wouldn't be a problem. (Fly to anywhere, crossing the land-border) And: If we wanted to settle in Germany, this would be legally OK also.

Any hints on how to get a long-term multiple-entry from the beginning would be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards, Christian Funke

[Heike]

Any hints on how to get a long-term multiple-entry from the beginning would be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards, Christian Funke

We just provided all the things they asked for in that Schengen Visa rules and they issued a multi-entry for max 1 year (depends on the expiry of your GNIB-Card. It has to be valid for 3 months after the expiry of the Schengen Visa you apply for.)

Still, it is inconvenient as he has to take a day off work as he has to sign the application in front of the visa officor's eyes! There's no way here in Dublin to send the application by post

[ca.funke]

Any hints on how to get a long-term multiple-entry from the beginning would be much appreciated.

Thanks and regards, Christian Funke

We just provided all the things they asked for in that Schengen Visa rules and they issued a multi-entry for max 1 year (depends on the expiry of your GNIB-Card. It has to be valid for 3 months after the expiry of the Schengen Visa you apply for.)

Still, it is inconvenient as he has to take a day off work as he has to sign the application in front of the visa officor's eyes! There's no way here in Dublin to send the application by post

yeah - we're stuck with the same problem.

From the official side, no-one seems to put much thought into their rules:

The German perspective: People in our situation COULD get to Germany without any visas: Fly somewhere outside Germany, and cross the land-border. Advantage for Germany insisting on a visa: zero.

For the UK it's the same. We could drive to the UK, due to their lovely "common-travel-area" we could even fly there without any hindrance. Advantage for the UK insisting on a visa: zero.

Both actions would just be illegal. The (real) reason is ... ? (ignorance, stupidity... ?)

I'm getting some hope from the "Surinder Singh" case. Maybe it'd be worth lodging a complaint with the EU against Germany?

(As well as against the UK, see my previous post containing their emails, and against Ireland for the EU-Fam cards "prior-residency"condition?)

[Heike]

Maybe it would be worth lodging a complaint with the EU against Germany?

(As well as against the UK, see my previous post containing their emails, and against Ireland for the EU-Fam cards "prior-residency"condition?)

Just FYI, my husband never lived in any other EU country before and got the 4EUFam card. I came to Ireland in October 2004, we got married in Turkey in December 2004 and he came to join me in Ireland in March 2005. We've been living here ever since then.

[ca.funke]

Maybe it would be worth lodging a complaint with the EU against Germany?

(As well as against the UK, see my previous post containing their emails, and against Ireland for the EU-Fam cards "prior-residency"condition?)

Just FYI, my husband never lived in any other EU country before and got the 4EUFam card. I came to Ireland in October 2004, we got married in Turkey in December 2004 and he came to join me in Ireland in March 2005. We've been living here ever since then.

thanks! I hope our application will be treated equally smoothly.

I just faintly remember a different problem - I hope it doesn't apply to you:

- If a women marries a Turkish man in Turkey, the women automatically receives Turkish nationality. (At least it used to be like that)

- Taking on any nationality (other than another EU-nationality) without the consent of the German government (="Beibehaltungsgenehmigung") automatically voids your German nationality. Wikipedia oder hier § 25 Staatsangehörigkeitsgesetz

- (sorry for the German:) Da steht zwar "auf Antrag", aber das wurde so entschieden, dass die Hochzeit als entsprechender "Antrag" gewertet wird.


--> You may want to make sure that this does not apply to you!

FYI: When I became Belgian I still had to apply for the "Beibehaltungsgenehmigung", as the law did not mention the exception for EU-countries at the time. That's why I got involved in this matter, and happened to come across the Turkish issue. It involved an unfortunate lady from Germany, who married in Turkey, on her return to Germany she was refused entry, her passport was declared void, got arrested and deported to Turkey. There it took her half-a-year to regain her German nationality! Unfortunately I only remember having read this at the time, I guess some research should surface similar cases easily.

[Heike]

If a woman marries a Turkish man in Turkey, the women automatically receives Turkish nationality. (At least it used to be like that)

Hi,

Read article 5 and 42 of this law: I never signed anything or made any declaration regarding Turkish nationality when we got married. So how would you interpret this? Sorry, but it is again in German

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:0f8S ... lr=lang_de

[ca.funke]

If a woman marries a Turkish man in Turkey, the women automatically receives Turkish nationality. (At least it used to be like that)

Hi,

Read article 5 and 42 of this law: I never signed anything or made any declaration regarding Turkish nationality when we got married. So how would you interpret this? Sorry, but it is again in German

http://66.102.9.104/search?q=cache:0f8S ... lr=lang_de

I'm not at all a legal expert in any way

I guess you should be fine. Maybe the other case was due to some other specific circumstances. As I only faintly remember this whole issue, maybe I was mistaken in some detail.

I just wanted to make you aware of this, as from what I gathered you went to the German embassy in Dublin and showed them your marriage certificate. If the Turkish thing had been automatic, problems would have probably surfaced already.

So I guess and hope you won't have more problems than we both already have...



Googling, I found this. Considering all the spelling-mistakes in the document, I wonder how "official" it is? However:

Marriage: if a woman married to a Turkish national is stateless or loses her previous nationality due to marriage or has notified within the legal process, she acquires the Turkish nationality.

And, according to this, it could be interpreted that

- the Germans consider you to gain Turkish nationality by marrying a Turk. (as this would loose you German nationality, as per the Turkish law)

- this would void your German nationality.

Of course this would not take into account the part "due to marriage", but considering occasional German friendliness, this may be used to get rid of people they don't want in Germany?

Or, in the other case, the lady just considered the second passport handy and made a declaration as per the above, not knowing about the consequences...?

In a way I'm sorry having posted this, but I had it in my head and didn't want to keep it to myself. That's all.

@all: Sorry for taking this topic astray
@ Heike: Sorry, if I got you worried.

[archigabe]

I don't think she would be considered a turkish national unless she had actually applied for it even though she was eligible by marriage. I don't think there's any country which will deprive you of your citizenship just because you married a foreign national. I wouldnt worry too much about it...

[cantaro]

Heike,

for all things concerning German visa and the like you might want to ask here: http://www.info4alien.de/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.cgi (Forum in German).