Naturalisation eligibility to be increased to ILR+2 years???

[RobinLondon]

i have very difficultly swallowed the 4-5 year rule. if ilr is made 6 years, i'll pack my bags and leave now. this is very unwelcoming attitude from the gov

With all due respect, I think you've misunderstood it. As I've grasped the speech (and mind you, this without having seen the document itself), this green paper is essentially a re-naming exercise.

The initial five years on HMSP/WP/Ancestry doesn't change. After completing five years, a person may apply for ILR as per usual. If the person never intends on becoming a UK citizen, s/he can maintain this status forever, provided they don't abandon the UK or are divested of the status by the Home Secretary.

However for those intending to progress to British citizenship, the ILR period now takes upon the additional nature of being "probational citizenship". After possessing this status for a minimum of one year, you can apply for UK citizenship. If you don't do saintly deeds, you might have to wait a little longer.

So essentially if you're a good Johnny Foreigner, you can still become British after six years (employment route) or three (family reunion). It just takes longer or won't happen if you aren't. The most significant difference between the new ILR/probationary citizenship and the status quo is that it seems that benefits will only be accessible to full UK citizens. Not to ILR holders, as is the present case. So that is a major change. I would reckon it may be a pull for long-term ILR holders now to apply for naturalisation.

But I must say, a pox on David Davis for wanting the new ILR/probationary citizenship to be five years minimum. That would be horrible, and would mean that even the best little migrant would have to wait at least ten years before applying for naturalisation. With that in mind, the Labour bunch may be the lesser of two evils.

KEEP IN MIND: This is still being debated. No one has any solid idea when or the extent to which all of this would come into force. As a best guess, I would say that applicants for citizenship around Summer 2009 may be the first to be impacted. But again, that's just my guess!

[Emma84]

This upsets me. I only recently got ILR and was told I could apply citizenship next year. Now all of the sudden I won't be able to. That is a kick in the face for me, I was really excited that I could become a citizen next year. I jumped through all their hoops, paid them extortionate fees, all so they could turn around and say, 'you have to prove that you contribute.' Haven't I already? I've been here 5 years, I hold a degree from a UK university, I work and pay all my taxes. I can support myself, but all my wages go into doing that and sometimes I have to work overtime when unexpected costs come up (ie, car tax and insurance). When am I supposed to have the time to go out and do other 'civil duties'? And jacking the fees up again? They've done that before, it doesn't work, so why do it again?

On the BBC site, I saw something about another test as well. So they're saying the one I took counts for nothing now? Or is it the same test as before? It wasn't really clear.

Labour are absolutely clueless and I really loathe them, especially Ms Smith.

[teekay_tk]

ok, i understand it a bit more RobinLondon. It would be still usefull to read through the green paper and also see if it is retrospevtive or prospective

[ashishashah]

I am on HSMP and i have seen HSMP rules changing twice in last 3 years..
ILR has been increased from 4 to 5 years..and now Citizenship limit is being increased from 1 year to X years..

Well, its really their call ,as they are "allowing" us to work here...But untill now i was planning to buy a house and settle down here..But i cnanot do it now as i dont know if i can stay here for long or not(Imagine buying a house one day and next day you dont qualify for FLR/some test/exam/ and you have to take a flight back home.)
.What happens to your house you just purchased??You cannot make any Long term plans being on sword edge..


Ashish

[RobinLondon]

On the BBC site, I saw something about another test as well. So they're saying the one I took counts for nothing now? Or is it the same test as before? It wasn't really clear.

I think the "test", as it were, may be more of a points test as opposed to a knowledge test:

- Does the applicant hold ILR/probationary citizenship? (tick)
- Does the applicant pay taxes? (tick)
- Does the applicant have a clean police record? (tick)
- Has the applicant completed X hours of community service? (tick)

= Successful application

So in that sense, the applicant may be asked to put together a "portfolio" of good citizenship, not to sit another exam. But again, who's to say?

If you read Dina Kiwan's article on the Citizenship Review website, this is what she suggested. I wouldn't be surprised it this was the eventual result in some form.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/becoming-a-citizen.pdf

[RobinLondon]

It would be still usefull to read through the green paper and also see if it is retrospevtive or prospective

Hmm...retrospective or prospective? Come on, what do you expect?

[Chess]

As soon as some one gets a link please post it on the site!...

..Are these rules only applicable to work related schemes only - or do they apply to the marriage route? very bizzare...

I am making this post a sticky!!!

[Emma84]

On the BBC site, I saw something about another test as well. So they're saying the one I took counts for nothing now? Or is it the same test as before? It wasn't really clear.

I think the "test", as it were, may be more of a points test as opposed to a knowledge test:

- Does the applicant hold ILR/probationary citizenship? (tick)
- Does the applicant pay taxes? (tick)
- Does the applicant have a clean police record? (tick)
- Has the applicant completed X hours of community service? (tick)

= Successful application

So in that sense, the applicant may be asked to put together a "portfolio" of good citizenship, not to sit another exam. But again, who's to say?

If you read Dina Kiwan's article on the Citizenship Review website, this is what she suggested. I wouldn't be surprised it this was the eventual result in some form.

http://www.justice.gov.uk/docs/becoming-a-citizen.pdf

Ah I see. Though I still don't see what making citizenship candidates do community service has to do with being a citizen. It is 'voluntary', therefore should be your choice. Not a requirement for something. I don't physically have the time to do community service, so I think that requirement is distinctly unfair. I do give money to charity when I can, as much as I can afford to. I may just marry my partner now and apply now before they decide to go ahead and implement this dumb scheme.

[AlexCh]

2. PR (ILR) looks like would now be replaced by probationary citizenship and would directly lead to applying for full citizenship.

Hope this helps.

and what about people who only want PR and do NOT want any kind of the British citizenship?

I still do not understand - why working and paying taxes is not enough to pay for schools, NHS, etc? Why migrants have to pay more?

[RobinLondon]

..Are these rules only applicable to work related schemes only - or do they apply to the marriage route? very bizzare...

Ms Smith made it rather clear in her speech that these rules are across the board. The only difference is that family routes will lead to full citizenship after three years; most other routes, after six.

There also supposedly won't be any exclusion for richies or elites or those married to UK citizens. I wonder what voluntary projects Kevin Spacey, Gwyneth Paltrow and Madge Ritchie will take up?

[RobinLondon]

and what about people who only want PR and do NOT want any kind of the British citizenship?

I still do not understand - why working and paying taxes is not enough to pay for schools, NHS, etc? Why migrants have to pay more?

As for your first question, see my first point above. Such people would just sit in PR limbo forever provided they don't abandon the UK or are divested of the status by the Home Secretary for shady behaviour. There won't be any compulsion for one to treat their PR as probationary citizenship if they don't want to. It just appears that they'll be no longer to collect benefits any more, whereas only full UK citizens will. And I'm sure the Government will come along with some other creative inducements as well over time.

As for your second point...why, why, why? Because those in power have the political muscle and incentive to demand it. Full stop.

[Chess]

So what happens next?

Green Paper to White Paper then Bill in Parliament?

Any idea of timescales when this system would kick in as we all no that the new rules will eventually be implemented...

[SMOOTH OPERATOR]

i wonder if it will affect spouses of British Citizens

[RobinLondon]

i wonder if it will affect spouses of British Citizens

Probably, YES! See my answers above!

[chetan]

After having a quick glance at the paper, I still think that citizenships for wp /hsmp holder will be minimum 7 yrs.

5 yrs employment
1 .. x probationary citizenship - No benefits
1 yr PR - Yes benefits
then Naturalisation

But Robin's understanding is valid tooo, that after the probationary period one can apply for naturalisation.

[Chess]

After having a quick glance at the paper, I still think that citizenships for wp /hsmp holder will be minimum 7 yrs.

5 yrs employment
1 .. x probationary citizenship - No benefits
1 yr PR - Yes benefits
then Naturalisation

But Robin's understanding is valid tooo, that after the probationary period one can apply for naturalisation.

Where is the link to the paper?

[RobinLondon]

All my answers were based on Ms Smith's speech and answers this afternoon. That's all I can go on at the moment. However, I do reserve the right to make modifications to what I've said once the document gets published.

Although I've been giving answers directly from what's come out of the Home Secretary's mouth, the definitive version, as it were, will be in print.

To answer an earlier question, this does need to go through the green paper --> white paper --> Parliamentary Bill stage. How long that specifically takes is anyone's guess.

[RobinLondon]

Here's a preliminary press release from the Home Office. It's not the paper, but it's something.

http://www.gnn.gov.uk/Content/Detail.as ... wsAreaID=2

To respond to chetan's point, here is a quote from the blurb:

The Green Paper: 'The path to citizenship' proposes:

- a three stage route to citizenship, including a new probationary period of citizenship, requiring new migrants to demonstrate their contribution to the UK at every stage or leave the country;
- full access to benefits being delayed until migrants have completed the probationary period;

To me this means that probationary citizenship (the current ILR) ends with a successful naturalisation application. Which would imply, therefore, that benefits are only given to full British citizens. We'll have to wait and see for sure though...

[chetan]

Hi Chess,

Apologies i thought i had read the paper but was only a review in Robin's post earlier, am still waiting for the link to appear on the net.

[dnicky]

With reference to the above link at the end of the article it mentions that a single new legislation including all the new changes to the immigration system will be introduced in Parliament in November this year.
Does that mean that the new changes related to cotizenship will come into force only ny end of this year or early next year?

[Narcissus]

For the current familty route one can apply immediately on obtaining ILR (assuming 3 years residence). Will that stay the same - or will a year of probationary citizenship now be needed?
I'd marry my boyfriend, but he's already been here 2.5 years, and if the 1 year probationary is still needed, it would only speed it up by 6 months.

[AlexCh]

Am I right - in spite of all these changes the visa nationals from the Commonwealth countries still will be able to vote and to be elected? No community work, English culture/language tests, paying taxes and being employed are required?

[Chess]

To answer an earlier question, this does need to go through the green paper --> white paper --> Parliamentary Bill stage. How long that specifically takes is anyone's guess.

Are you sure about this?....any way it will be just a matter of time..

[RobinLondon]

Am I right - in spite of all these changes the visa nationals from the Commonwealth countries still will be able to vote and to be elected? No community work, English culture/language tests, paying taxes and being employed are required?

Commonwealth nationals resident in the UK may vote in all elections. However I believe that we still need ILR in order to stand for election:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/uk ... #pt5-l1g18

[AlexCh]

Am I right - in spite of all these changes the visa nationals from the Commonwealth countries still will be able to vote and to be elected? No community work, English culture/language tests, paying taxes and being employed are required?

Commonwealth nationals resident in the UK may vote in all elections. However I believe that we still need ILR in order to stand for election:

http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/uk ... #pt5-l1g18

I am pretty sure that I read a story a couple of years ago about a failed asylum seeker who was elected into local council even as he was waiting for removal and could not speak English. Your link seems applying to general elections. If the Government is now talking about Britishness - it would be logical to make some changes to prevent such cases?