Naturalisation eligibility to be increased to ILR+2 years???

[RobinLondon]

I am pretty sure that I read a story a couple of years ago about a failed asylum seeker who was elected into local council even as he was waiting for removal and could not speak English. Your link seems applying to general elections. If the Government is now talking about Britishness - it would be logical to make some changes to prevent such cases?

I think this is small beans, but yes. For what it's worth, I think you're probably right.

[Chess]

Interesting analysis below:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7254926.stm

[thirdwave]

After having a quick glance at the paper, I still think that citizenships for wp /hsmp holder will be minimum 7 yrs.

5 yrs employment
1 .. x probationary citizenship - No benefits
1 yr PR - Yes benefits
then Naturalisation

But Robin's understanding is valid tooo, that after the probationary period one can apply for naturalisation.

What has changed though with the new rules, is that it gives the HO the license to delay naturalisation applications for an indeterminate period of time without offering any explanations.This could easily lead to a US like scenario where Green Card applicants can often wait for 6-7 years before their applications are processed. I think the primary aim of the proposed changes is rationing of British Citizenship...

[ashishashah]

But in US ,GC itself is taking X no. of years..At least in UK u get ILR (similar to GC ) after 5 years....

[starman]

it's the chinese and others where their government doesn't approve of dual nationality i feel sorry for having had a brief read. as they are facing 5 years WP + 3 years of probation before getting permant residency (and not citizenship)

i fear this paves the way for harsh treatment in a few years. government knows that people are here that it would sooner weren't. but it can't find them. so alternative is to force (sorry, 'incentivise') citizenship and ID cards onto all immigrants so that enforcement sweeps can be oh so much more brutal and fruitful!

[Narcissus]

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... tizenship/

Here seems to be the paper

[SMOOTH OPERATOR]

Probationary
Citizenship

• To progress to citizenship: a
  minimum of one year

• To progress to permanent
  residence: a minimum of three
  years

after reading the above statement on page 27 of the THE PATH TO CITIZENSHIP:
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... tizenship/




does this mean that myself being on a spouse visa valid till july 2009 may have to apply for a year's extention to make it 3yrs in order to apply for British citizenship or the option to apply for ILR(which will be 3 yrs)[/list] as stated on page 29

[RobinLondon]

does this mean that myself being on a spouse visa valid till july 2009 may have to apply for a year's extention to make it 3yrs in order to apply for British citizenship or the option to apply for ILR(which will be 3 yrs)[/list] as stated on page 29

If this legislation passes as proposed (which really is too soon to tell), it will likely be in force by July 2009. Particularly if they are planning to submit the bill to Parliament in November 2008.

Just reading the document, this is what would happen in your case:

In July 2009, you would apply for probational citizenship. ILR no longer exists at this stage, but you still need to demonstrate English language skills, Life in the UK understanding, and an on-going relationship. In July 2010 after one year on probational citizenship, you can apply for British citizenship IF you have done some sort of community work. If you refuse to do it, the must gather enough point for either British citizenship or permanent residency by July 2014 or you will be forced to leave the UK.

If for some reason you do not want UK citizenship, you can attain permanent residency by July 2012 at the earliest, but definitely by July 2014 or you will be forced to leave the UK.

[Narcissus]

As I read it, this is more of a rebranding.

ILR no longer exists in the same form. Instead we have Probationary citizenship (PC).

We still have 5 years Tier 1/2 to get PC (like ILR), or 2 years as family.

The difference is PC may last between 1 and 3 years before citizenship - rather than 1 year for ILR.

Also as a spouse you could actually apply for citizenship as soon as getting ILR (after 2 years on spouse visa as long as you had been in the country a total of 3 years). Now it seems you will have to spend a year on PC regardless.

I think the main effect will be to phase out ILR (which is now an option after 3 years of PC minimum). So there will be fewer migrants without citizenship, but who do have unlimited leave to remain.

Oh and I assume it will be retrospective and affect everyone already here - but who knows. Everything mentions Tier 1/2 - I'm asuming they will map HSMP/Skilled with job to tiers 1/2 rather than lettting them go to ILR as now.

I think it's awful that everything they do is retrospective as that is what creates uncertainty - if it only affected future migrants everyone would know the system thy are going to have to face.

[UKbound]

What I've gathered from reading the documentation is that the big changes are :

- the change from ILR.. The "probationary citizenship" 1-year thing replaces the 1 year of ILR before you can apply for citizenship. For those that will not apply to naturalise, there will now be 3 years additional years before you can get ILR
- More money.. Which seems to be never ending and seems to apply to every change.. I'm not really pleased about this.. The documents even say that we are NET contributors to society, but we're still going to have to pay more!
- Volunteerism requirements to speed up the citizenship route.. It could be more than a year of "probationary citizenship" if we don't do this, in whatever form it ends up being.
- I'm not as sure about this one, but also for those convicted of minor crimes, there will be added time to the process. I'm not sure if this is a change from today.
- higher English requirements are potentially in there too, although many programs already have this incorporated.
- and limited access to benefits, but this seems similar to what is already in existence for HSMP.

Overall, it's really frustrating that more changes are being made. It's hard to plan when everything keeps changing.. And being here on HSMP, I feel a bit like I'm being milked for more and more cash in order to stay. I've lived with it since I have a route to naturalisation.. It seems like that hasn't changed, but if it does then I'm going to look at other options.. I've had several job offers on the continent but I've turned them down since I want to stay in the UK for ILR and citizenship purposes... if those options end up being off the table, I'll take my high skills elsewhere and contribute to someone elses economy instead. Fortunately, so far, it doesn't seem like it's really changed too much from an HSMP perspective.

Sorry for the rant, I'm sure you guys are feeling the same way.

[ashishashah]

Even i am on HSMP...HAve a query though:

So there wont be such thing called ILR any more?
You can either apply for a Citizenship after X years after ILR(5 years) , or u go home...Basically you cannot stay for ever on ILR like ppl. r doing it now..You HAVE to TAKE british citizenship

Am i right in saying that??

Ashish

[dnicky]

After 5 years on work related visa, in your case HSMP, you would be granted probationary citizen for 1 year minimum after which you could opt to apply for British citizenship or permanant residence (if you qualify).
I think you can retain permanant residence status for a fixed period, after which you either have to apply for British citizenship or else leave the country.

[dnicky]

A correction to my above statement regarding the stay as a permanant resident.
Probationary citizens in the event of wishing to apply for permanant residency instead of british citizenship, would need to remain as a probationary citizen for minimum of 3 years as opposed to 1 year if opting for british citizenship.
Upon getting the permanant residency the migrant can stay on this status as long as he/she wishes to or alternatively apply for british citizenship at a later date.

[RobinLondon]

After 5 years on work related visa, in your case HSMP, you would be granted probationary citizen for 1 year minimum after which you could opt to apply for British citizenship or permanant residence (if you qualify).
I think you can retain permanant residence status for a fixed period, after which you either have to apply for British citizenship or else leave the country.

No, this is not true.

What you cannot do is remain in probationary citizenship forever. You must progress to either British citizenship or permanent residency. The transition from probationary citizen to UK citizen lasts a minimum of one year and a maximum of five. The transition from probationary citizen to permanent resident lasts a minimum of three years and a maximum of five. If you do not make this transition to UK citizen/permanent resident, then you MUST leave the UK.

British citizens hold this status forever. Permanent residents would likely lose this status upon abandoning the UK or committing nefarious acts. But there is otherwise no limit upon their stay. People will just be incentivised to become British because (1) it's quicker, (2) you get a EU passport and (3) you can access the entire benefits system.

[UKbound]

Hey Ashish:

You're right, they are pushing people to citizenship, not permanent residency.. There is no more ILR after 5 years.. It's 5 years, then either 1+ more year(s) for "probationary citizenship", followed by citizenship, or 3 more years for permanent residency..

Check out the link -
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... tizenship/

The first document on page 31 has a picture of what the process would look like.. It looks like it will become 8 years to permanent residency, or 6 years to citizenship (if you do the volunteering, etc)..

Note the comment on the document - "Longer qualification
period for Permanent Residence (minimum 3 years) than British
Citizenship (minimum 1 year)"

The comment applies after the initial 5 years of FLR.. Ugh.

[RobinLondon]

What I can't find out...there's no reference to it in the document...

What happens to those already on ILR when the Big Bang happens? I reckon that transitional arrangements are still a while off, but there will be many people who will have the old style ILR when the Home Office no longer is issuing them.

I wonder how they will be brought into citizenship, or will this be some residual class?

I ask because I'm scheduled for ILR in August 2008. Early enough to get ILR. But I'm likely to be subject to the new nationality rules by the time August 2009 rolls around if there aren't transitional arrangements in place.

[martin001]

I'm trying to get my head around this, i really am, but cannot work out how this will affect my situation.

I am a UK citizen and my American spouse will be coming to live with me in London, in September.

What will the route to citizenship look like for her now?

Before it was 2 years residency, then ILR, then citizenship.

If anyone can help i would greatly appreciate it.


Grrr Britain.

[UKbound]

Based upon what they're saying.. It's probably not that different.. It would be 2 years of residency, which would have limited benefits.. and then 1+ years of "probationary citizenship", that would be only 1 year if your spouse were to volunteer enough (based on criteria not yet determined).. and potentially more money than now for fees and to offset any impact to your council.

[SYH]

What I can't find out...there's no reference to it in the document...

What happens to those already on ILR when the Big Bang happens? I reckon that transitional arrangements are still a while off, but there will be many people who will have the old style ILR when the Home Office no longer is issuing them.

I wonder how they will be brought into citizenship, or will this be some residual class?

I ask because I'm scheduled for ILR in August 2008. Early enough to get ILR. But I'm likely to be subject to the new nationality rules by the time August 2009 rolls around if there aren't transitional arrangements in place.

No there is still ILR. And if you have ILR already, then you have bypassed the probationary citizenship phase. Thats what it looks like to me. However, it is clear, they no longer want the perpetual student to become a citizen. ALAS

[ashishashah]

well...I am confused...
What is the best case(shortest time) and worst case(longest time) scene for HSMP holder ??

5 years on HSMP =Probation Citizenship/ILR
+ 1/2/3 years = British Citizenship/PR/British passport

Is this correct??

Thanks
Ashish

[thirdwave]

I feel the vague qualification period for naturalisation has been specifically introduced in order to help the HO significantly extend application processing times from the current 6 weeks-3 months to several years in the future..I would be surprised if many people qualify for naturalisation within the first year of 'probationary citizenship' under the revised system and 2-3 years could end up being the norm. It also allows the govt to lay down more requirements in coming years to extend the time people spend on probation as the probation period under the proposed changes seems to be up to 5 years, in the case of Citizenship..

With regards to Citizenship apparently being made easier than PR, I know many people who have lived in this country for decades and are yet to apply for naturalisation. If these rules are adopted retrospectively, many of them would not qualify due to the tougher English language requirements etc. I can't help but think some of these measures are aimed at certain sections of society who have come under much closer scrutiny in recent years for all sorts of wrong reasons.In any case,I`m sure any move to revoke ILR retrospectively could easily be challenged under European Human Rights legislation.

Shutting..stable door..horse..bolted comes to mind (and innocent HS professionals suffer as a consequence)

[UKbound]

hey Ashish:

Best case HSMP is -

5 years FLR
1 year "probationary citizenship"
then citizenship...

So it's not a different number of years than now.. The difference is that after 5 years, you are still temporary until you get naturalised.

If you don't want citizenship then its -

5 years FLR
+3 more years FLR
then permanent residency..

Hope that helps.

[ashishashah]

With regards to Citizenship apparently being made easier than PR

wait...Sorry for naive question..
Isnt PR and ILR same??
and isnt British citizenship/passort and naturalisation same??

[thsths]

In any case,I`m sure any move to revoke ILR retrospectively could easily be challenged under European Human Rights legislation.

Indeed, so I think they will have to convert ILR into permanent residence. With the citizenship process they can violate good faith, because "it is not a right". But ILR is, so it has to stay in a similar form.

The other thing I wonder is how it integrate with the EU track. I assume it does not (no change there), in that EU citizens and family members get PR after 5 years, and can naturalise from there.

Overall I have to say that I am quite impressed with the document. It may seem like a redressing exercise, but a lot of things are actually being simplified. Instead of LTE, LTR, FTR, ILR, PR etc, it all comes down to temporary or permanent. Also reducing the number of different routes seems overdue. If it were not for all the uses of "robust" for "tough", it could actually be a good start.

Tom

[runie80]

The other thing I wonder is how it integrate with the EU track. I assume it does not (no change there), in that EU citizens and family members get PR after 5 years, and can naturalise from there.

I am very interested to know this part as well

My wife is from Poland and I am from Pakistan.

For me is it 3 years or 5 years ?

no mention of EU citizens and their family members

Page 30 at the following link mentions nothing about EU citizens but shows a good graphical interpretation of how the proposals will function if become law
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... tizenship/