SWITCHING

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:07 pm

Hi guys please help.

My application for ten year ILR has been refused because of gaps.

I want to know if I can switch to a work permit now from within the UK. My leave as a student expired at the end of January. I am now within the 28 days grace period. How can I go about switching to work permit ?

1) If I apply for a judicial review before this 28 days lapses what effect will this have on my status? Will my student status carry on, making it possible for me to apply for a work permit and later leave to remain as a work permit holder from within the UK.

2) Also the solicitor told me that while I already have a UK degree/s I would need to complete the current phd course in order to be able to switch to a work permit holder status. I do not believe this to be correct. Is this the case? I have read on the BIA site that all you need is a Uk degree - it doesn't say it has to be your current course.

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 6:42 pm

By question 2 above I mean switching from within the UK

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 9:22 pm

Just to add to that. If I had to leave and apply from overseas I fear that the British embassy will use trickery to stop me from re-entering the UK.

ci07jjs · Post by **ci07jjs** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:09 pm

William Blake wrote:By question 2 above I mean switching from within the UK

You don't need to have completed the current course to change to the workpermit. You just need a UK degree.

How many days did you have gaps in your ILR application, just out of interest.

ci07jjs · Post by **ci07jjs** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:11 pm

btw, did you not get any appeal rights? why you talking about JR?

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 10:50 pm

There was a gap of one-month which I knew about and regarding which I asked for discretion. But decision maker says there were two out of time applications. I know what they are talking about but they weren't out of time nor gaps. I say what happened at the end of this post but I need help to make my mind up regarding the work permit. In particular whether I should leave the country. I do want to take the HO to task about the refusal including sending a letter of reconsideration and going to judicial review (as no there is no appeal if you have valid leave when a refusal comes back) and any other thing I can do. But I read on a website:

http://www.uk-wp.com/

It is possible to switch to work permit immigration status only from a small number of other types of visas. For example, a visitor may not switch to work permit status, and nor may a dependent, or a student who has not graduated with a degree during his or her stay.
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So it seems I may have to leave and seek re-entry from abroad if I go the work permit route. I just worry the embassy will use a frivolous reason to exclude me especially as they know I applied for ILR and was refused.

This is what happened regarding the two out of time applications
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I Applied in time, passport not included as was expired pending new passport from embassy, said this in coverletter. Got passport sent it in, checked and waited, for two years, was told awaiitng consideration, backlog etc. I went down there and found out they never matched the passport to the application. They said they had the passport, would send it to me in few days, waited, checked, was told actually we sent it back to you a year ago with leave granted 'on paper' , not in the passport which they had (I dont know what that means as I don't know HO to give leave 'on paper'). Got new pasport again sent in application with detailed complaint and all evidence and got visa. Seems they have counted and recorded the first application as being out of time, possibly counting from when they got the passport. Then they count again the resubmission two years later as another application. But as no decision was returned to me my status did not change. Legal counsel says I had continuous stay even though the final decison was two years later. Course this will look bad on them.

ci07jjs · Post by **ci07jjs** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:00 pm

William Blake wrote:
http://www.uk-wp.com/

It is possible to switch to work permit immigration status only from a small number of other types of visas. For example, a visitor may not switch to work permit status, and nor may a dependent, or a student who has not graduated with a degree during his or her stay.
---.

I applied for a workpermit before based on a previous degree obtained in the UK and discontinued the one that I was doing during the time of workpermit applicatin. So, if you already have a UK degree (for example, BSc), you can apply for a workpermit based on that.

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:09 pm

Yeah thats what I thought but this solicitor keeps saying I need to finish phd first. I really dont get them. They claim to have all this experience and they just seem to chat a lot of unreliable stuff.

So if it possible to switch like that then considering my leave has expired can anyone say what my status will be if I submit for judicial review? i.e. strictly speaking I am an overstayer. If I apply for JR what ststus will I have and can I switch to work permit then?

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:11 pm

Hmm, are you sure you can switch like that from within the UK. The website text seems to be saying that during this currency of stay ie. the time for phd I must graduate in order to apply for work permit from within UK

ci07jjs · Post by **ci07jjs** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:13 pm

Yes, I change my student visa to workpermit within the uk.

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:16 pm

And you did not have to leave and seek re-entry to get your visa ?

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:18 pm

sorry for asking you the same thing so many times. This law firm is supposed to be top notch. Its hard to believe she is so wrong.

ci07jjs · Post by **ci07jjs** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:42 pm

Thats ok.

I switched from my student visa to workpermit within the UK. I did it, if your law firm insisting that they right then they are wrong, coz i did it.
If you look into the workpermit rules the requirements for the workpermit is you need a UK degree, doesn't state you have to complete your current degree.

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Wed Feb 20, 2008 11:59 pm

Say you got leave to complete a bsc and you did that then got leave to do a masters, she says you can't apply for work permit on the fresh leave for the masters. Same with transition from masters to phd. It sounds strange to me and I dont see how it would work. Anyone else got thoughts / experience on this ?

ci07jjs · Post by **ci07jjs** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 12:32 am

Tell you what, look at the home office application forms for extending a student visa and applying for a workpermit:

for a student visa - you need to provide satisfactiry evidence in the current visa that you have been given student visa for.

For workpermit - you just need to provide uk degree certification and that doesn't necessarirly mean the visa that you have been given for your current course.

flanker · Post by **flanker** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:36 pm

I got work permit approval near the end of my phd course. I completed my 3-year phd course but I have not submitted my thesis when I started on my work permit. This was more than 5 years ago, I do not know if the law has changed.

Tina · Post by **Tina** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:50 pm

Hi there,

My understanding is you can switch to work permit visa within UK if you meet 2 condtions: a)you have obtained a degree in a recognisable Univercity in the UK and b)you current visa is student visa.

Personnally, I don't see any reasons why you can not switch to WP in the UK.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 8:31 am

The solicitor is right.

Look at the the rules carefully and you will see that, in order to switch, you must have graduated from a UK university in your current period of leave. So, if you graduated and then got a new student visa for a new course, and haven't completed that course, then you can't switch.

Victoria

guli · Post by **guli** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:36 pm

I think what confused OP is there is the terminology used.

You cannot swictch from student to WP unless there is a job offer and the employer applies for a WP for you. Once the WP is approved, you can apply for leave to remain under FLR (IED) form.

What the other poster is say is IGS (international graduate scheme).

You can switch from student to IGS (which is basically allowing you a work-permit free employment in your field of study). IGS will then hopefully lead to actual WP application which the employer will apply.

IGS require you to graduate (i.e. with that piece of paper) from a recognized UK education body.

Can you not just apply for further leave to remain as a student?

guli · Post by **guli** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 12:40 pm

The solicitor is right.

Even though you had a Bachelors or Masters from a UK uni, you are already studying for your PhD, which means more than 12 months have passed since your Bachelors or Masters.

In order to be eligible for IGS (International Graduate Scheme) you need to have just graduated (12 months or less).

The only way for you to apply for IGS is to submit your thesis, and pass the viva.

good luck,

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:00 pm

I don't know whats going on. Even the solicitor has come back and said that she thinks switching may be possible but awaiting a response from her colleague.

Now the company is putting pressure on me to leave the UK within the 28 days grace period ie. in the next six days and that just sounds like a rush job to me with the possibility of so many things going wrong and possibly not getting back in. I have asked them about extending the student visa and they say they do not favour this route as it may not be successful and they won't be able to hire me and I cant switch anyway. I asked what if I submit for visitor visa and they say that is likely to fail, as I am now technically an overstayer but I just can't travel at the drop of a hat like that. I would think a student visa application would be best but they once again say that if this were to fail and I had to leave and seek re-entry on a work permit I may be declined entry clearance because of the failed student visa and the failed ILR.

What can I do? I think leaving in a rush is a bad strategy.

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:28 pm

Do you still qualify for IGS?

Victoria

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:00 pm

I don't think I qualify for IGS as I haven't completed my current course. I wasn't asking about IGS at all just a work permit sponsored by my employer. How would HO see a student visa application now ? If they refused it what problems would I have if I left to re-enter on a work permit? And what's the problem with applying for a visitor visa now then ?
Keeping in mind the new rules regarding overstayers.

I feel pressured by the company as they may say if i don't do it their way then no sponsorship. What can I do about this situation?

VictoriaS · Post by **VictoriaS** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:03 pm

This is why I am trying to clarify if you qualify for IGS. If you can switch in country to IGS and from that to work permit it will solve the problem.

Victoria

William Blake · Post by **William Blake** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 2:16 pm

Okay. Fair point.

I have not completed this phd which I started in 2004. Due to officially complete later this year. My masters was obtained in 2004.

The clear cut option I have is the work permit option (course I know of JR etc. but immediately is work permit as employer is pushing for this.)

Their approach would be for me to leave in six days, wait overseas for like six weeks then courier the work pemit to me and I return through entry clearance. Putting aside my fears of getting stuck overseas I cant travel on such short notice so to avoid blacklisting I need to do something in six days. I think it may be best to go for student visa but the solicitor says that if this is refused and I have to leave then my status will still be an overstayer and I won't be permitted back in.
I thought then maybe I just go for a visitor visa to prevent black listing but she again says she doubts they would grant this as I am an overstayer although she feels they would be more inclined to grant a student visa. I then say what effect will filing for the JR have on my status and she says she doesn't know she is only there to advise for her client the employer and not deal with JR. What I can and can't do I just don't know. I really don't want to put the employer off and I also want to do what protects my best interest not just the employer's interest.

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SWITCHING

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