5 years of HSMP wont lead to ILR- again Rules Changing

[hari15]

Please see this
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... escontract

Again Changes in Rule. I think they will be keep on changing rules till our life ends in UK

This rule may come to force in this year end I hope

Now we wont get Permenant Residence once we complete 5 years in HSMP / Tier1

what we will get is 'Probationary Citizenship' this is again a TEMPORARY LEAVE TO REMAIN

We can become eligibe for British Citizen ship in the minimum of One year to maximum of 5 years AFTER we get that 'Probationary Citizenship' provided we pass certain criterias. No idea on what are those criterias somebody can throw light on it


If we are not getting qualified for British Citizenship and provided we are qualifying in other criterias (like earning) we can get ILR after 3 years from the date we got probationary citizenship (then can switch to citizenship later on if we qualify)


NOTHING IS GOOD NEWS BUT THERE ARE MANY BAD NEWS

1. Before we were Eligible for ILR at 5 years hence all benefits were accessible from 5 years . But its not the case now. Until we become Full british Citizen at 6 years or get ILR at 8 years we wont have access to any benefits

2. The term Probationary Citizenship only looks sweet in its name. But literally you have no additional benefits with that. You have only same rights as you had with HSMP before

3. Before we were required to proove that we are contibuting to the economy of UK only until we get ILR, that is only for 5 years. Now we need to proove that at each stage until we get British Citizenship or ILR

4. also getting britishenship at 6 th year doesnt seem to be easy. It may take above that also, to a maximum of 10 years

5. Before once we get ILR it was very easy to get job in Uk market. No idea about job market with probationary citizenship, because its again a LIMITED LEAVE TO REMAIN

People who knows more about this news canthrow some more light

So Getting HSMP Extension is not the end of the struggle.. We still need to struggle until we get british citizenshp

[global gypsy]

See my post here:
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... 558#147558

[alientrader]

Do not, I repeat DO NOT come to the UK. tell your friends and family members about it, let the economy here go intoa recession, property prices collapse and see if they like it.

[zhassan]

If this happens that will be a MAD decision. I have applied under HSMP but now I have to think before I get it stamped on my Passport.

Thanks for the information folks,

Regards,
Zia-ul-Hassan

[herts]

Looking at the new rules which will come out in some weeks, it seems HO is trying to delay the ILR for all hsmp people. So we don't get to use the benefit system here.

[olisun]

Looking at the new rules which will come out in some weeks, it seems HO is trying to delay the ILR for all hsmp people. So we don't get to use the benefit system here.

If you are skilled and take care of yourself and your family, why do you need benefits??

[olisun]

let the economy here go intoa recession, property prices collapse and see if they like it.

Do you think the economy is going to go into a recession and property prices are going to collapse if HSMP people stop coming over to the UK??

And will it still stop people from coming to the UK and work??

[UKbound]

Olisun is right.. For HSMP you probably won't need public benefits anyway, so an extra year without access to them won't hurt too much.

At least the whole process to citizenship still is taking roughly 6 years, as long as you meet whatever criteria they come up with (which will apparantly include some kind of volunteer work)...

The benefits that you do lose out on are right to vote, access to resident education rates, etc., so that could affect some people. It also makes credit harder to get if you're only temp, and it can also make jobs harder to get as well.

I know they keep saying that they want to be more like Australia on immigration, but I think the Australia programme is a lot faster to permanent residency.. And Canada is giving it immediately, if it hasn't changed, with only 3 years to citizenship. But then again, I guess since the UK has all the EU immigration to deal with, they're trying to stop others from coming over too... I just wish they'd make up their minds on what they want and get it over with so I can figure out if I want to stick around or go somewhere else.

[hari15]

Looking at the new rules which will come out in some weeks, it seems HO is trying to delay the ILR for all hsmp people. So we don't get to use the benefit system here.

If you are skilled and take care of yourself and your family, why do you need benefits??

You rightly said HSMP people should not be looking for benefits. I too agree with it. But whether we are really accessing any benefits or not is a secondary issue. But having a thought that it will be available in worst case atleast temporarily will give great security feeling.

My main intention of posting this is not just benefits. But to show that in overall again the process inclined to the tougher side.


And whoever it may be let be a highly skilled person or an ordinary person. Circumstances and Fates are not just decided by whether he is highly skilled or not

Any thing may happen anytime

1. A Highly skilled person may loose a job suddenly, due to closure of his company, in the worst period of where UK job market is very dull such that he may need atleast 6 more months to settle in another job

2. A Highly skilled person can meet with an accident and can become a Handicap all in one day

3. A highly skilled Migrant may fall seriously ill such that he couldnt able to work for 6 months (say a heart surgery)

4. A Highly skilled person may be needing to visit his home country for 3 months resigning present job temporarily for a unavoidable reason (say parent's death)

So if you get ILR, you have protection from these scenarios atleast for a temporary period

UK is a new country to any HSMP holder unlike in their home country they dont have Relatives support or other Social support. If they face bad times like above before they become citizen, THEY MUST QUIT UK. Thats what the scenario now

If a HSMP candidate works harder for 5.5 years in UK and if he become handicap in 5.6 th year he still have to leave UK

In normal circumstances I agree an HSMP candidate should NEVER looking at benefits. But an extraordinary situation is common to all. It wont come seeing whether we are highly skilled or normal person

[ashishashah]

Well, i came to UK as i knew that i would get PR after 5 years and citizenship after 6 years...But there guys keep moving the goalpost....
I am sure that by the time i spend 5 years in UK, rules would have changed again...
I was planning to buy a property here ,but now i cannot as i dont know what will be my status ???Imagine buying a house on one day and next day you come to know that you need to apply for FLR AGAIN, and you no longer qualify, so u need to take a flight back home..
When i came, i knew that i had to go for just 1 FLR, but now it seems that after every 2-3 years i need to re qualify under new rules..

Ashish

[zhassan]

Are such rules in alignment for one of requirements for HSMP migrants to make UK as their home country?

I think it doesn't give the confidance and moral/social support that a migrant needs when comes to a new country, even if he/she can fulfill financial needs or whatsoever.

[anjali_devi]

Do you guys reckon this will come into force for ILR starting from Feb 29 considering that they have a new set of forms (Like SET(o)).....

[karupalli]

GOD....Quite depressing news... When I will buy my house here and setllte with my family...??? Always temporary... for how many years... in rented house???:((

[SKUK]

I couldn't help imagine a new situation ( probability of happening is very low ?).

Say you become a probabtionary citizen in UK, your home country considers this as having obtained UK citizenship, revokes your passport and then after x years you find out that UK has asked you to pack your bags because you didn't do enough voluntary work to qualify for full citizenship/ILR, then what ? you become countryless....you've nowhere to go..hahahahaha.....great

[diamella]

I couldn't help imagine a new situation ( probability of happening is very low ?).

Say you become a probabtionary citizen in UK, your home country considers this as having obtained UK citizenship, revokes your passport and then after x years you find out that UK has asked you to pack your bags because you didn't do enough voluntary work to qualify for full citizenship/ILR, then what ? you become countryless....you've nowhere to go..hahahahaha.....great

Then you could stay coz you had nowhere to be deported

[dnicky]

As mentioned in the green paper BIA is planning to submit a full bill including the proposed changes in Parliament by end of November 2008.
It looks likely the new rules could come into effect sometimes next year.

[hari15]

I couldn't help imagine a new situation ( probability of happening is very low ?).

Say you become a probabtionary citizen in UK, your home country considers this as having obtained UK citizenship, revokes your passport and then after x years you find out that UK has asked you to pack your bags because you didn't do enough voluntary work to qualify for full citizenship/ILR, then what ? you become countryless....you've nowhere to go..hahahahaha.....great

Yes I really couldnt understand what sort of voluntary service they are expecting

Here many are not asking british Citizenship. To be honest I am expecting only ILR. Becoming british citizen is something we need to decide at later stage of our life. All I require is only ILR

But home office made Btitish Citizen ship eligibility at 6 years (with some conditions like voluntary service, English, Contribution to UK economy blah blah ) and postponed the ILR eligibility to 8 years

I really couldnt understand the intention of making ILR eligibility to 8 years

[ashishashah]

HAri,

Even if u get ILR, it wont suffice now..Before this rule, you can be on ILR for ever..But NOW either you HAVE to take citizenship or leave the country and u wont be allowed back in..
So message is go all the way to Citizenship else nothing....You cannot sit on ILR ..Which is a shame..Even i wanted ONLY ILR ,but now it seems that is not an option and to apply for BC it will take 8-10 years...
It is not looking good at all..I have to rethink my whole life now

[SKUK]

I think you are right Ashish..There is nothing called ILR now..You'll be a drifter until you gain citizenship which has been made tougher and expensive as well.

[rg1]

Guys

This is really a bad news!
However, the way HO is behaving in last 2 years, we expected similar blows.
I think every year we'll get further shocks.

Yes, we migrants will be like vagabonds in the is country for ever. They will continue to remove the goalpost every year.

I have decided not to think about it any more. Initially I though of buying a house, starting a family etc. after having ILR. But I've already bought a house (I'm on WP and got HSMP approval recently) and aiming to continue with other aspects of personal life without thinking too much about immigration rules.

Because I found that if I worry too much, I'll lose my sleep and I can't change what HO is doing....

Yes, I know one day some years down the line, I may need to sell my house here and go back to India forever with my family, but I won't allow anyone to ruin my present happiness for some future uncertainties.

Last time (after 4-5 yr rule change) I did write to my MP several letters (and received rubbish replies) and realized that a devil won't hear any logic.

Like many of you I never wanted British citizenship - all I wanted is ILR. But since that is now gone probably I'll leave this country anyway after few years.

BTW, you don't need HSMP holders to intervene on UK housing market to crash. It already crashed (well some sort of).

I also won't advise anyone whether to come to UK or not. It's everyone's personal decision and people should come after considering all the pros and cons.

[ashishashah]

Initially I though of buying a house, starting a family etc. after having ILR. But I've already bought a house (I'm on WP and got HSMP approval recently) and aiming to continue with other aspects of personal life without thinking too much about immigration rules.

Because I found that if I worry too much, I'll lose my sleep and I can't change what HO is doing....

Yes, I know one day some years down the line, I may need to sell my house here and go back to India forever with my family, but I won't allow anyone to ruin my present happiness for some future uncertainties.

Spot on rg1 ..I was also thinking on similar lines about settling down in UK..

Now i think i wont invest money in UK economy like buying house,car,furniture etc..If they DONT want us to live here, i wont..I will try to save as much as possible and send the svings back to India..After 3-4 years , i will go back and "settle" in India...No more contribution to UK economy from my side...

[hari15]

No doubt this rule changes are blow to everyone

But I will say whoever already in UK for 4 or 5 years are now in relatively better position than those who got HSMP approval just now and intended to enter UK

If you get HSMP approval letter and EC dont be too much happy

1. You should pass HSMP extension in another 2/3 years
2. You should pass to get Probationary Visa after 5 years
3. You should pass to get british Citizenship at 6 years

Within which if you get any serious illness for say 4 months or if you have any compelling situation to resign job for 3 months or if you meet with an accident or if you are without job for a while such that you couldnt able to support you. YOU WILL BE SHOWN EXIT even if that happens at 5 years 11 months of your stay in UK

[SKUK]

Tough Rules or Easy rules, Immigration will never stop. Nobody can stop. It's a human thing. Just imagine if the red Indians had imposed strict regulations for people coming into the US, it wouldn't have been the country that it is now. Even during it's heydays, the Aryans immigrated to India...so on and so forth....

[hari15]

what is submitted is 'Green paper' This will be submitted in Parliament only by this year end i.e, near Nov 2008

It is not the rule at present. But Defenitly will become rule by 2008 end

So if anybody completes 5 years in UK before Nov 2008, without any delay immediatly apply for ILR. Infact they are lucky

But unlucky persons like me who is completing 5 years only by next year need to go through these new rules

[rg1]

Actually whatever draconian rule HO implements, flow of migrants from developing world will continue for at least another decade (by that time developing countries will gain better economy while UK's economy will fall further - thus devaluating the benefit of migration to UK) . HO knows this quite well and that's why they don't care if few thousand people are inconvenienced.

From past events, we could see that whatever they proposed in consultation document was actually implemented without much change. So, we can assume that this change WILL be implemented. Consultation document is not really a consulation - it's just an early visibility of what is going to come.

If we, the skilled migrants, want to attack this change we must learn from our previous failed attempts regarding overturning 4-5 yr rule change.

So, any new protests need to be thought from different angle to make it really effective.