Satisfying possible future applications

[swilliams1]

My thai girlfriend is applying for an Unmarried Partner Settlement visa.

We have the documentary evidence to support the requirement of living together, as from May 25th.

The process in Thailand involves three steps:
1. Submitting an online application form - which includes basic admin type information
2. Paying for the visa and the NHS surcharge
3. Going to a prearranged meeting at the local visa processing office in Bangkok

Does anybody know which of these steps constitutes the 'Date of Application'?

[Casa]

My thai girlfriend is applying for an Unmarried Partner Settlement visa.

We have the documentary evidence to support the requirement of living together, as from May 25th.

The process in Thailand involves three steps:
1. Submitting an online application form - which includes basic admin type information
2. Paying for the visa and the NHS surcharge
3. Going to a prearranged meeting at the local visa processing office in Bangkok

Does anybody know which of these steps constitutes the 'Date of Application'?

Under the Immigration Rules:
"
30. An application for an entry clearance is not made until any fee required to be paid under the Consular Fees Act 1980 (including any Regulations or Orders made under that Act) has been paid.


Therefore the date of application will be the date on which the online payment is made.

Assuming you are living together in Thailand, as the sponsor how will you meet the minimum income level of £18.600 p.a

[Obie]

ALSO SEE Kaur (Entry Clearance – date of application) India [2013] UKUT 381 (22 July 2013)

[swilliams1]

Thanks for both of the replies.

The financial requirement is being met by savings of the required amount - deposited on November 25th. I've therefore been aiming to make the application as soon as possible after May 26th.

My initial plan had been to submit the online application in the next week, which would hopefully have enabled us to get an appointment some time in the first week of June, while submitting payment after May 26.

I'm now wondering whether it might be prudent to simply accept there may be a delay, and not submit the online application until May 26th, and pay at the same time, just to avoid any potential confusion?

Quite a lot depends on the lead time for appointments, but so far I haven't found a way to find out that information. It seems I can only find that out after I click the 'submit' button.

[swilliams1]

To illustrate the possibility for confusion, I asked a friend of mine who is applying for a Spouse Visa right now. She asked the visa agent, who she is paying just under a £1,000 to process the application. The agent was convinced that the 'Date of Application' is the date of the appointment, when the biometrics are taken and the documents handed over.

This was what I'd initially assumed, but having read the posts above, it seems clear enough that it is when payment is made.

Even so, there seems enough room for confusion that it might make sense to play it safe, and make sure that the evidence supplied fulfills the criteria (financial etc) based on the date of online submission?

[Casa]

If I was in your position I would definitely play it safe and follow the Immigration Rules (as posted previously). Frequent examples on the forum show that Solicitors are not always correct unfortunately, despite the fees charged.

It would also be wise to show the source of your savings when you submit the application.

Proof of adequate accommodation available on your arrival in the UK

[swilliams1]

Thanks for the info and help - it's very much appreciated!

The source of the savings was a gift from family. It has been sitting in a savings account since May 25 . As far as I'm aware that's permissable, as long as I provide a signed letter from the family member stating this?

The accomodation, to get us started, will be my parents home, which they own. Again as far as I'm aware, that's ok? I will be supplying an official copy of the title deeds, a council tax bill, another utility bill, photos of the room we would be using and a letter from father inviting us to stay there indefinitely. We will be looking for rented accomodation immediately, but I believe there is no need to include this information?

If I haven't misjudged anything, the only area of possible contention would be in the evidence I can supply to satisfy the requirements for an unmarried partner. Many of things they ask for, such as council tax bills, joint bank statements etc are not available in Thailand so I can't be 100% sure that what I am able to provide, will suffice. I think that merits a different thread. I'm getting it all in order now so I can be very specific when I post my question.

[Casa]

Thanks for the info and help - it's very much appreciated!

The source of the savings was a gift from family. It has been sitting in a savings account since May 25 . As far as I'm aware that's permissable, as long as I provide a signed letter from the family member stating this?

The accomodation, to get us started, will be my parents home, which they own. Again as far as I'm aware, that's ok? I will be supplying an official copy of the title deeds, a council tax bill, another utility bill, photos of the room we would be using and a letter from father inviting us to stay there indefinitely. We will be looking for rented accomodation immediately, but I believe there is no need to include this information?

If I haven't misjudged anything, the only area of possible contention would be in the evidence I can supply to satisfy the requirements for an unmarried partner. Many of things they ask for, such as council tax bills, joint bank statements etc are not available in Thailand so I can't be 100% sure that what I am able to provide, will suffice. I think that merits a different thread. I'm getting it all in order now so I can be very specific when I post my question.

Best to post all questions related to your application in this thread as it gives an overall picture of your circumstances.

Accommodation all looks good and no need to show that you intend to look for your own flat after arrival.

What evidence do you have for a relationship 'akin to marriage' for the 2 year co-habitation qualifying period?

[swilliams1]

Casa, thanks again! So in your opinion, everything looks fine for the financial requirements?

As for the evidence to support the relationship 'akin to marriage', I'm getting together a list of the documents now and will post here instead of starting another thread.

[Casa]

Casa, thanks again! So in your opinion, everything looks fine for the financial requirements? It would be prudent to submit a paper trail of the savings from your parent's account to yours. A letter on its own may not be sufficient.

As for the evidence to support the relationship 'akin to marriage', I'm getting together a list of the documents now and will post here instead of starting another thread. Will keep an eye out for your updates to the thread

[swilliams1]

Regarding the paper trail. Would it be sufficient to supply a bank statement from my parent's account showing the money going out from their account, to go along with my own bank statement showing the money going in?
(This would be accompanied by letters from both them and myself.) Or does it need to go further into their finances, and show where the money came from before it went into their account? (ie share sales, property sale or whatever it may have been).

[swilliams1]

Re the evidence for a subsisting relationship 'akin to marriage'

Myself and my Thai partner have been together since mid February 2014. During that time we have been together a total of 36 months and apart (me in the UK) 3 months. Since May 2015, we have spent 22.5 months together (mostly in Thailand, 2 months in the UK, and 1 week in Hong Kong/Vietnam), and 1.5 months apart, when I was staying with my family in the UK.

I can show all the entry/exit stamps in my passport to and from Thailand during this period, as well as producing records of all my flights.

Would it be worth doing this from the time we met, or the 2 year period only, starting in May last year?

Would the flight records, in addition to the passport records be useful, or 'too much information'?

We have moved around quite a bit during our time, and since it is impossible to get a joint bank account (due to my tourist visa status in Thailand), there is no council tax, and utilities are done in the name of the apartment owner, my level of documentary evidence may not be ideal, but I hope it will be good enough. We have plenty of hospital and dental bills and records but none show addresses. I've supplied so many different pieces of evidence because it seems like not many of them, on their own, are ideal according the criteria published.

Please could you let me know which of the following evidence would not be helpful, and ultimately, whether what I am able to provide, will be good enough in your opinion? We plan to get married at some point after saving up a little bit, but if it seems like we don't have the necessary evidence, we would get married here in Thailand and submit a spouse visa application instead.

I will print out a few pages of photos and Facebook screenshots taken throughout the time. We could also supply Line message conversations but would prefer not to. I'm assuming that the latter would be unncessary?

Thanks in advance -there's a lot of info here !

1. May - July 2015: Stayed with my parents in the UK (my partner on a UK Visit Visa issued in March 2015), having travelled together from Thailand.

We spent a month more, and left a month earlier (9 weeks total instead of 5) than we initially planned. In our visa application we stated we would stay 5 weeks, hopefully this will not be an issue?

Documents:
Flights to and from Thailand (printout of email confirmation)
Vision Express eye examination certificate showing my partner's name and my parent's address.

2. July 2015
Hotel Booking in Bangkok in both our names (printout of email confirmation)

3. July 2015 - January 2016
Rental Contract - in my name. On the contract my partner's family address (which is on her Thai ID card, and supplied in the online visa application) is used as my correspondence address, and her phone number is listed.
Invoices for the apartment addressed to me, using my partner's family's address.
Internet supplier - monthly bills in my partner's name.
Affirmation of address from the British Embassy Bangkok, which I needed for a Thai driver's licence, in my name.
My bank account - printed statement from branch showing address. There are many pages - I would only need one page? Are bank account statements helpful at all - as evidence that I was living there?

4. January - March 2016
Rental contract in my name and payment receipts. (We left the apartment after two months)
Service / warranty agreement for a fridge, showing this address, in my partner's name.
Bank statements, printed in branch, showing this address, in my partner's name and in my name. If we include these, would we only give one page?

5. March 2016 - September 2016
Rental contract, joint, in both our names .
Internet supplier bills in my partner's name.
Bank statement, printed in branch, showing this address, in my name.
June Trip to Hong Kong
Hotel booking in both our names
Return flights Bangkok to Hong Kong each

6. September 2016 - May 2017
Rental contract, joint, in both our names. (A different apartment in the same building, the contract running until the end of June)
Internet supplier bills in my partner's name.
Bank statements, printed in branch, showing this address, in my partner's name and in my name.
March trip
Hotel bookings in both our names
Return flights each

Throughout the two year period, we received deliveries from abroad and from within Thailand in both our names, from online shopping, including a laptop. Would these be worth including?

My partner also has two letters addressed to her from banks, at our last two apartments, each a credit card application rejection (which might not look too good!), but showing the address. Would it be useful to include these?

We have a four month car rental contract which is in my name, but my partner is listed as a secondary driver, both of us signing.

There's nothing else I can think of or could get my hands on!

Thanks again for taking the time!

[Casa]

Regarding the paper trail. Would it be sufficient to supply a bank statement from my parent's account showing the money going out from their account, to go along with my own bank statement showing the money going in? Should be fine.
(This would be accompanied by letters from both them and myself.) Or does it need to go further into their finances, and show where the money came from before it went into their account? (ie share sales, property sale or whatever it may have been).

[Casa]

Re the evidence for a subsisting relationship 'akin to marriage'

Myself and my Thai partner have been together since mid February 2014. During that time we have been together a total of 36 months and apart (me in the UK) 3 months. Since May 2015, we have spent 22.5 months together (mostly in Thailand, 2 months in the UK, and 1 week in Hong Kong/Vietnam), and 1.5 months apart, when I was staying with my family in the UK.

I can show all the entry/exit stamps in my passport to and from Thailand during this period, as well as producing records of all my flights.

Would it be worth doing this from the time we met, or the 2 year period only, starting in May last year?

Would the flight records, in addition to the passport records be useful, or 'too much information'?

We have moved around quite a bit during our time, and since it is impossible to get a joint bank account (due to my tourist visa status in Thailand), there is no council tax, and utilities are done in the name of the apartment owner, my level of documentary evidence may not be ideal, but I hope it will be good enough. We have plenty of hospital and dental bills and records but none show addresses. I've supplied so many different pieces of evidence because it seems like not many of them, on their own, are ideal according the criteria published.

Please could you let me know which of the following evidence would not be helpful, and ultimately, whether what I am able to provide, will be good enough in your opinion? We plan to get married at some point after saving up a little bit, but if it seems like we don't have the necessary evidence, we would get married here in Thailand and submit a spouse visa application instead.

I will print out a few pages of photos and Facebook screenshots taken throughout the time. We could also supply Line message conversations but would prefer not to. I'm assuming that the latter would be unncessary?

Thanks in advance -there's a lot of info here !

1. May - July 2015: Stayed with my parents in the UK (my partner on a UK Visit Visa issued in March 2015), having travelled together from Thailand.

We spent a month more, and left a month earlier (9 weeks total instead of 5) than we initially planned. In our visa application we stated we would stay 5 weeks, hopefully this will not be an issue?

Documents:
Flights to and from Thailand (printout of email confirmation)
Vision Express eye examination certificate showing my partner's name and my parent's address.

2. July 2015
Hotel Booking in Bangkok in both our names (printout of email confirmation)

3. July 2015 - January 2016
Rental Contract - in my name. On the contract my partner's family address (which is on her Thai ID card, and supplied in the online visa application) is used as my correspondence address, and her phone number is listed.
Invoices for the apartment addressed to me, using my partner's family's address.
Internet supplier - monthly bills in my partner's name.
Affirmation of address from the British Embassy Bangkok, which I needed for a Thai driver's licence, in my name.
My bank account - printed statement from branch showing address. There are many pages - I would only need one page? Are bank account statements helpful at all - as evidence that I was living there?

4. January - March 2016
Rental contract in my name and payment receipts. (We left the apartment after two months)
Service / warranty agreement for a fridge, showing this address, in my partner's name.
Bank statements, printed in branch, showing this address, in my partner's name and in my name. If we include these, would we only give one page?

5. March 2016 - September 2016
Rental contract, joint, in both our names .
Internet supplier bills in my partner's name.
Bank statement, printed in branch, showing this address, in my name.
June Trip to Hong Kong
Hotel booking in both our names
Return flights Bangkok to Hong Kong each

6. September 2016 - May 2017
Rental contract, joint, in both our names. (A different apartment in the same building, the contract running until the end of June)
Internet supplier bills in my partner's name.
Bank statements, printed in branch, showing this address, in my partner's name and in my name.
March trip
Hotel bookings in both our names
Return flights each

Throughout the two year period, we received deliveries from abroad and from within Thailand in both our names, from online shopping, including a laptop. Would these be worth including?

My partner also has two letters addressed to her from banks, at our last two apartments, each a credit card application rejection (which might not look too good!), but showing the address. Would it be useful to include these?

We have a four month car rental contract which is in my name, but my partner is listed as a secondary driver, both of us signing.

There's nothing else I can think of or could get my hands on!

Thanks again for taking the time!

In my honest opinion I don't believe you'll have sufficient documented evidence to convince the ECO that you are in a relationship 'akin to marriage' throughout the full 24 month period. Brief periods apart won't be a problem, but during the time spent with your parents and while you were without anything in joint names the ECO could take the view that you were simply boyfriend & girlfriend.

If you're considering marriage anyway, I would marry in Thailand and apply for a Spouse Settlement visa. The Unmarried Partner visa is a tough one to get approval for as it comes under such close scrutiny.

Regarding the extension of your time visiting together in the UK, it won't affect a settlement visa but it may well flag up if your partner wants to enter as a visitor in the future.

[swilliams1]

Thanks for taking the time to go through everything and answer all my questions - it's greatly appreciated.

Looks like we will considered the spouse route instead!

[swilliams1]

So sorry to ask even more questions - but I'd assumed the Spouse route would be clear cut.

I'm reading conflicting reports about the evidence we need to submit regarding the relationship/marriage. I'd assumed that it would simply be the relevant documents - such as the Thai marriage certificate. Should we also supply some more documents, such as photos and some of the documents in the list in my post above? I haven't found online a clear outline of what is required as yet. When applying for a spouse settlement visa, are there requirements beyond providing the documents proving marriage?

I've seen reference to changing of names - my partner is happy to take my name, but would this delay the process? Would she not then need to get a new passport to reflect the change in name? I'm hoping we can get the settlement visa, and then take care of this kind of thing when we are in the UK. For example, when we go to the UK as a married couple, and open joint bank accounts, would we need to have changed her name on her passport first?

[swilliams1]

As far as evidence goes to support a Spouse application, the following would be enough? Is there anything else that I was thinking of including with the 'unmarried partner' application that I should also include here?
the marriage documents
name change documents
photos of the duration of our relationship and the marriage registration
my passport stamps and flight bookings showing our time together and
joint rental contracts

It seems that changing name on the passport, thai id card, and housebook can be done pretty quickly so it would make sense to go ahead and do that before making the application.

I've read that the TB test should be delayed until we have the new passport, as the names on the certificate and the passport have to match.

As far as the language test go, we are already booked in and paid for, using the old id card. Would we be able to take the test using the card, before any name changes are made, and use this test result in our application? (Which would include evidence of the name change).

[swilliams1]

I'm a bit stumped by a few questions on the VAF4A form and haven't found any answers online.

The question is : "1.24 What languages do you speak well?" The guidance says "Please tell us which language(s) are you fluent in."

The language requirement for this visa is A1 but I wouldn't personally regard that as fluent. There is no guidance given as to what is considered 'fluent'. For example, my girlfriend can hold a perfectly good conversation, but has some way to go with grammar and vocabulary. Would we write English and Thai here or only Thai.

"1.25 Do you and your sponsor have any shared financial responsibilities?"
This would be official commitments such as mortgages, rather than day to day sharing of expenses?

"2.8 Do you intend to work in the UK?"
A vague answer such as 'Yes, I intend to find a job in real estate' is ok?

"1.4 Where did you first meet your sponsor"
"Bangkok" would be ok or does it need to be more specific?

"1.6 How often do you meet?" and "1.7 When did you last see your sponsor?"."1.8 How do you keep in touch with your sponsor?"
As we are living together, it seems like answering these questions with 'Everyday' and 'Today' could be perceived as being facetious.

[Casa]

As far as evidence goes to support a Spouse application, the following would be enough? Is there anything else that I was thinking of including with the 'unmarried partner' application that I should also include here?
the marriage documents
name change documents
photos of the duration of our relationship and the marriage registration
my passport stamps and flight bookings showing our time together and
joint rental contracts

It seems that changing name on the passport, thai id card, and housebook can be done pretty quickly so it would make sense to go ahead and do that before making the application.

I've read that the TB test should be delayed until we have the new passport, as the names on the certificate and the passport have to match.

As far as the language test go, we are already booked in and paid for, using the old id card. Would we be able to take the test using the card, before any name changes are made, and use this test result in our application? (Which would include evidence of the name change).

Should all be fine.

[Casa]

I'm a bit stumped by a few questions on the VAF4A form and haven't found any answers online.

The question is : "1.24 What languages do you speak well?" The guidance says "Please tell us which language(s) are you fluent in."

The language requirement for this visa is A1 but I wouldn't personally regard that as fluent. There is no guidance given as to what is considered 'fluent'. For example, my girlfriend can hold a perfectly good conversation, but has some way to go with grammar and vocabulary. Would we write English and Thai here or only Thai. I would include both languages. The ECO only wants to know that you are able to communicate with each other.

"1.25 Do you and your sponsor have any shared financial responsibilities?"
This would be official commitments such as mortgages, rather than day to day sharing of expenses? Shared bills, bank account would be 'Yes'

"2.8 Do you intend to work in the UK?"
A vague answer such as 'Yes, I intend to find a job in real estate' is ok? Fine.

"1.4 Where did you first meet your sponsor"
"Bangkok" would be ok or does it need to be more specific? Best say where in Bangkok. The question may come up later in an interview.

"1.6 How often do you meet?" and "1.7 When did you last see your sponsor?"."1.8 How do you keep in touch with your sponsor?"
As we are living together, it seems like answering these questions with 'Everyday' and 'Today' could be perceived as being facetious. My husband and I were in the same position. We gave 'Everyday' and 'Today'.

[swilliams1]

Casa, thank you so much for your time and the clarity of your responses. I hope that's pretty much it now

I may post a list of the table of contents before I submit, if that's ok, just to check that I haven't made any glaring mistakes (as I nearly did by nearly paying for the application well before May 26! )

[Casa]

Casa, thank you so much for your time and the clarity of your responses. I hope that's pretty much it now

I may post a list of the table of contents before I submit, if that's ok, just to check that I haven't made any glaring mistakes (as I nearly did by nearly paying for the application well before May 26! )

Of course...the belt & braces approach is always wise.

[swilliams1]

I have some more questions already - trying to make sure every box is ticked correctly and now onto the nitty gritty of the practicalities of submitting the paperwork:)

I have come across the issue of 'certified copies'. As the sponsor, I will need to supply a copy of my passport printed on an A4 page, as part of the new scanning procedure that was just introduced. Does this copy need to be certified (at the British Embassy for example)? I assume I would also bring the original passport to the appointment?

I would also be supplying copies of the pages inside the passport showing the ins/outs over the past few years, to demonstrate how much time I have spent in Thailand (with my partner). I'm assuming these wouldn't need to be certified, as that would be extremely expensive. Based on the fee charged by the British Embassy, which as far as I know the only available option for certification in Bangkok, it would cost over £160 for these alone.

Are there any other documents that form part of the application that need certification? We would be supplying originals for my partner's documents such as her birth certificate. The Thai documents, such as the marriage certificate will be legalized by the Thai Ministry of Foreign Affairs.

The news system is being phased in over the next month or so:
http://www.vfsglobal.co.uk/thailand/pdf ... s-docs.pdf

As they stipulate the pages must all be A4, for something that isn't, say perhaps the Land Registry document, or indeed my passport, does that then mean that I have to copy the document and then get that copy certified, instead of simply providing the original, in each instance?

I also wonder whether this system will mean that there is no need to supply copies where an original is being provided (if it fits the A4 format), as it will be scanned in and returned anyway.

[swilliams1]

We will be getting married in the middle of May and submitting our application early to mid June. Are there any issues with applying for a spouse visa this close to the registration of the marriage?

We are also not having a formal wedding celebration. My fiance's parents will attend the registration but we plan on saving up for the celebration at a later date. Would this be an issue for the application? (We have been together since October 2014, living together for 35 months and apart for 3 and a half since that time, and will submit evidence to support this.)

[CR001]

We will be getting married in the middle of May and submitting our application early to mid June. Are there any issues with applying for a spouse visa this close to the registration of the marriage? No

We are also not having a formal wedding celebration. My fiance's parents will attend the registration but we plan on saving up for the celebration at a later date. Would this be an issue for the application? No

(We have been together since October 2014, living together for 35 months and apart for 3 and a half since that time, and will submit evidence to support this.) Evidence of communication during your time apart is important to prove subsisting relationship.