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5 years of HSMP wont lead to ILR- again Rules Changing

Archived UK Tier 1 (General) points system forum. This route no longer exists.

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SKUK
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Post by SKUK » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:01 pm

Me too same situ Hari.....Will the Tories do anything different if they are voted to power or is it going to be a case of "Old Wine in......".

But the number of rules brought in the last 2-3 months like the 1000 £ deposit for family visitors and reduction from 6 to 3 months and now this all makes me think we are unwanted in spite of contributing thousands of pounds in taxes and NI....

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ashishashah
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Post by ashishashah » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:03 pm

Well, if i am unwanted its fine..I will try to earn the max. i can ,save as much as possible and go back to India in next few years (and live like a king in India!!).,..

dnicky
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Post by dnicky » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:06 pm

Conservatives would be even worse if they come to power. I was hearing the live spam_do_not_click_here yesterday when the home secretary put forward the proposal in house of commons.
One of the reponse (I think from shadow home secretary) was that the proposed minimum period of 1 year that one has to spend as a probationary citizen is far less and they would have really liked it to be something like additional 5 years before being granted full citizenship.
Taking this into consideration one has to say that the current government is far more liberal than the conservatives.

dnicky
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Post by dnicky » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:12 pm

ashish

I believe permannt residency option is still open, although you would have to spend atleast 8 years (5 - temporary resident, 3 - probationary citizen) before you can apply for permanant residency.
On the other hand if one decides and is eligible to apply for full citizenship at the end of the probationary citizenship period, he/she can get it within minimum of 6 years.
So it looks like government is inclined more towards forcing future immigrants to be citizens rather than permanant residents only.

SKUK
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Post by SKUK » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:12 pm

ashishashah wrote:Well, if i am unwanted its fine..I will try to earn the max. i can ,save as much as possible and go back to India in next few years (and live like a king in India!!).,..
very true...Also it's better to get out of cities in India and go and live in a village..There is again this migration problem in cities..at least in the city where I come from....

I want to get into farming :)

rg1
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Post by rg1 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:18 pm

So it looks like government is inclined more towards forcing future immigrants to be citizens rather than permanent residents only.
Exactly! That seems quite strange!

hari15
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Post by hari15 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:25 pm

SKUK wrote:Me too same situ Hari.....Will the Tories do anything different if they are voted to power or is it going to be a case of "Old Wine in......".

But the number of rules brought in the last 2-3 months like the 1000 £ deposit for family visitors and reduction from 6 to 3 months and now this all makes me think we are unwanted in spite of contributing thousands of pounds in taxes and NI....
Conservatives are known for their anti immigration policy and Labour party is somewhat lineant in this issue. Infact to satisfy Conservatives and to avoid people from inclining towards Conservatives labour is making immigration laws more strong

So dont think that conservatives coming to power will solve the issue. It may become even worser if they come. They may change minimum 1 year of probationary citizenship period to 5 years. Then it may take 10 years for 1 to settle over here. By that time all who have came in HSMP might have returned back to home country

olisun
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Post by olisun » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:27 pm

rg1 wrote:Because I found that if I worry too much, I'll lose my sleep and I can't change what HO is doing....
That's right... UK is not the last country in this world...
rg1 wrote:Like many of you I never wanted British citizenship - all I wanted is ILR. But since that is now gone probably I'll leave this country anyway after few years.
It's true that many don't want to settle in this country permanently then why claim that you want to make UK as your main home and waste time and money over all the JR's, etc.

Like somebody else mentioned in this thread, earn as much as you can and go back to your home country and live like a king...

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ashishashah
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Post by ashishashah » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:35 pm

Infact this is a good thing which has happened..I know where their loyalities lie ,and i know now that where my loyalty shd. lie...I was confused about a)where to settle down,b)buy house,c)raise family ,d)opt for pension,e)buy stocks/bonds, f)keep money in which bank/country etc...BUT Now ths answer is very CLEAR..I can sleep peacfully now knowing that what is my future goal and where will i spend my retirement :)

karupalli
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settling in UK

Post by karupalli » Thu Feb 21, 2008 2:56 pm

I dont think anybody really want to settle in UK permeneantly...I really dont see any great advantages living here... With whatever money we earn, we can live good life back home... You can get doctor/specialist appointment immediately... cost is so cheap... you can have servants at your home... etc... etc..

Only advantage with British passport is that you can roam all EU countries and work freely.

SKUK
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Re: settling in UK

Post by SKUK » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:03 pm

karupalli wrote:I dont think anybody really want to settle in UK permeneantly...I really dont see any great advantages living here... With whatever money we earn, we can live good life back home... You can get doctor/specialist appointment immediately... cost is so cheap... you can have servants at your home... etc... etc..
And enjoy year long sunshine...

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Post by herts » Thu Feb 21, 2008 3:58 pm

Hi Olisum,
For benefits I meant to say child benefit, not about job seekers allowance or council house, Well even if they dont give that its ok.
Well one voluntary work I was thinking is why not open a website just as some ppl have done for canada, www.notcanada.com.
That will benefit the people coming here thinking one day they can be permanent here and secondly HO will also be pleased that what they wanted is actually happening from this website, in this way we guys can say this is a voluntary work from our side. Sounds very silly but am just frustrated.

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ashishashah
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Post by ashishashah » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:11 pm

BTW, there are multiple threads going on this FORUM who are waiting for HSMP/EC and are really waiting anxiously...Really things look very rosy sitting in India but once u reach a new country u realise the ground relities..Just a thought...!!!!

herts
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Post by herts » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:14 pm

Just wondering if HO really does not us to be here, why dont they stop the hsmp system, for those applying 1st time they just wanna make money by bringing people in the country.

rg1
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Post by rg1 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:25 pm

HO really does not us to be here, why dont they stop the hsmp system
To support their aging population and provide money (via taxes and immigration fees) for benefits of those lazy citizens!

herts
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Post by herts » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:29 pm

So what really cud happen with the new rules ?
We can have a Red passport after 6 years ? And an ILR on our home country passport in 8 years, is that right ?

hari15
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Post by hari15 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:43 pm

herts wrote:So what really cud happen with the new rules ?
We can have a Red passport after 6 years ? And an ILR on our home country passport in 8 years, is that right ?
Yes it is right at this moment.

They are changing rules every year. Getting citizenship / ILR is still 3 to 5 years ahead for us.

at the moment you are about to apply for British Citizenship or ILR they may say that the whole HSMP system is now scrapped and whoever already entered under HSMP cannot claim citizenship/ILR as per new rules.


If somebody ask questions, they may say that we have agreed to the condition that rules may change anytime

SKUK
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Post by SKUK » Thu Feb 21, 2008 4:43 pm

xcvbnm
Last edited by SKUK on Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.

rg1
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Post by rg1 » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:03 pm

It's still not end of the world.

There are only a few things which you can do only after having UK passport - which you can't do as HSMP holder.

I can only re-call the home rate fee issue for some university courses
(I assume HSMP holder doesn't need to claim benefits).

The only other pain I feel having to apply for Schengen visa so many times.

olisun
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Post by olisun » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:13 pm

rg1 wrote:To support their aging population and provide money (via taxes and immigration fees) for benefits of those lazy citizens!
Well you can't generalise all citizens of these country as lazy, considering a large part of those are immigrants and who have worked / are working their arse out every day...

thirdwave
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Post by thirdwave » Thu Feb 21, 2008 5:37 pm

SKUK wrote:They will dangle the Red Carrot (Passport) in front of you, ask you to try and grab it. Once we rabbits are close to snatching it, they will pull it away and run further and dangle it again..This will go on for a while...After its tired and almost dead, they will skin the rabbit and make a meal out of it.....
Quality :lol: :lol:

Spear
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Changed rules not retrospective ?

Post by Spear » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:07 pm

I found this story in the Independent online. Focus on the last sentence.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 84566.html

Immigrants face stronger British citizenship process

By David Barrett, PA
Wednesday, 20 February 2008


Foreigners living in Britain will be expected to go through a new expanded citizenship process or leave the country, under new plans outlined by ministers today.


The Home Secretary Jacqui Smith said she wanted to end the situation where foreign nationals "languish in limbo" by living here but not adapting to the British way of life.

Even the ultra-wealthy - who can currently avoid some of the conditions imposed on less well-off immigrants - will be expected to apply for British nationality or permanent residence.

"I would want to see a larger proportion of those that are here moving to full British citizenship," said Ms Smith.

"You will not be able to languish in limbo. Once your period of temporary residence comes to an end you will need to apply for the next stage or leave."

Winning citizenship will take at least six years from the point someone arrives in the UK, a year longer than at present because of a new stage of "probationary citizenship".

The probation period will last 12 months if the foreigner takes part in community activities such as volunteering, charity fund-raising, running a sports team or playgroup, or working as a school governor.

Migrants who do not take part in community work will have to wait longer - the existing five years plus a minimum of three years' probation.

This type of community work may even be made compulsory, said a Green Paper published today.

The rules will not apply to Europeans - including those from the eastern European countries which recently joined the EU.

But Ms Smith also announced a new review of access to welfare payments, such as child benefit, by people from other European Economic Area countries.

Immigration minister Liam Byrne said current take-up rates for British citizenship were low among certain foreigners - such as Filipinos (50 per cent), Australians (49 per cent) and Americans (40 per cent).

"There are some residents from some parts of the world who are languishing in limbo for some considerable period of time," he said.

Ms Smith went on: "I don't think it is a good thing to have people who are permanently living here but have not taken that step towards permanent citizenship."

Full access to benefits - such as jobseeker's allowance and income support - will no longer be granted after a person has been in the UK for five years.

Applicants will instead have to wait until they have completed their probationary period.

New conditions will be introduced on winning British citizenship, such as an emphasis on being law-abiding.

Migrants who have served a prison sentence would be barred from citizenship and could be removed from the country, the Green Paper said.

If human rights laws prevented someone with a criminal record from being removed from Britain, they would have to serve five years' probationary citizenship, it added.

Minor offenders could have to serve three years' probationary citizenship, and extra time could also be imposed on applicants who had been convicted of violent, drug or sex offences.

Parents whose children commit crime could be barred from citizenship or permanent residence in the UK, the document suggested.

"If people won't play by the rules in this country their journey to citizenship should be halted or slowed down," said Ms Smith.

A new fund financed by a surcharge on immigration applications will be set up to give cash to areas of the country which experience problems due to immigration - such as over-subscribed schools.

The fund is expected to raise tens of millions of pounds a year.

Higher levies will be imposed on groups such as children and elderly people who use more public services.

Ms Smith said there were new moves to review how European nationals in Britain are able to claim some benefits in the UK.

"We will be setting up a cross-departmental unit to look at access to benefits for European Economic Area nationals," she said.

Asked if it would examine hand-outs such as child benefit - which is currently paid to 69,000 children whose eastern European parents joined the EU in 2004 - Ms Smith said: "Yes, it's those type of issues.

"We know there are very many of our European partners who want to see a benefits system that works in a larger Europe and in the context which we now have."

A draft Bill based on today's proposals is due this summer with full legislation expected in November.

Changes will apply to new arrivals after the new laws are passed, and not to foreigners already living in the UK, so reforms are only likely to affect migrants arriving from 2010.

herts
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Post by herts » Thu Feb 21, 2008 6:37 pm

Changes will apply to new arrivals after the new laws are passed, and not to foreigners already living in the UK, so reforms are only likely to affect migrants arriving from 2010.
Does that mean existing hsmp applicatnts won't be affected for ILR, can we still apply for ILR after 5 years time.

Rog
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Post by Rog » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:01 pm

These rules will affect a majority of us. Most HSMPs are at the most in the 4th year of HSMP and by the time they reach the period of five years, these rules may hit us anytime now. We have been truly duped by HO with the word "Migrant" in the HSMP thinking that we would ultimately reach some form of stability in ILR but now we are looking at 5 years HSMP or WP + 1-3 years probationary ILR (in other words another FLR) and if we are lucky enough to reach the "confirmed" ILR after 6-8 years, then one more year for naturalisation.

When the first round of retrospective changes hit us in Dec 06, most members of this board who are earning well and met 75 points were confidently looking down on the unfortunate HSMP holders affected by the ruling, with taunting posts whenever anyone described their difficulties. But remember the HO will keep changing goal posts and no HSMP visa holder is safe from these retrospective changes.

UKbound
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Post by UKbound » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:32 pm

I've also seen in another article that changes will only apply to new arrivals. I couldn't find that in any of the documentation.

Has anyone found it in any of the official docs?

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