5 years of HSMP wont lead to ILR- again Rules Changing

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 7:49 pm

UKbound wrote:I've also seen in another article that changes will only apply to new arrivals. I couldn't find that in any of the documentation.

Has anyone found it in any of the official docs?

I dont think so.

Once the law is passed in parliament that should immeditly come to effect.

Since this rule is for Citizenship and ILR there is no point in focussing that on new HSMP commers because for a new HSMP candidate it will take another 5 years to reach that stage, so there is no need to pass that law in 2008 end for a person who is going to meet that in 2013

So it must certainly affect all people who had not got ILR by the time the law comes to force

I saw in document that this should law will be passed in parliament by 2008 Nov / December.

So it may come anytime after that.

If it comes on 2010 it will benefit many people here (including me). But I dont think HO will impose this that much slowly. Mostly probably this should be introduced in early 2009

herts · Post by **herts** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:17 pm

If we do have to get our visa extended one more time, will we still have the same transitional arrangements in place that time as of now.
If yes then it should not be much problem getting it extended.
We should not really worry now as the new rules can be for new arrivals as some members say. It could just be HO wanted to publish the rules before 2010 so that every newcomer is aware of the rules.

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:34 pm

herts wrote:If we do have to get our visa extended one more time, will we still have the same transitional arrangements in place that time as of now.
If yes then it should not be much problem getting it extended.
We should not really worry now as the new rules can be for new arrivals as some members say. It could just be HO wanted to publish the rules before 2010 so that every newcomer is aware of the rules.

Hi Hertz,
But dont worry about Point system.

As per this paper there is no point system for Probationary Citizenship.

Point system is only for Intial and Extension of Tier1 Visa

We should have completed 5 years and we must be employed and should be supporting us and our dependants. And we should have passed some test (Living in Uk test) and should proove english ability. I hope these are criterias

Getting Probationary Citizenship is not tough or complicated, it will be easy to go through I hope. But Getting Citizenship may be complicated

But main thing to worry is the uncertainity of our future will continue till we get British Citizenship may be in 6 years or 7 years or 8 years between that any rule change or a bad time can chase us out of the country. At present uncertainity ends on 5 years. That is no more the case. Thats the only thing we need to worry

EdgeHillMole · Post by **EdgeHillMole** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:40 pm

I'm one of those who actually did want to become a British Citizen.

However, I'm still concerned about the ramifications of the new probationary period on getting a mortgage or applying for a job. Don't care about benefits, but I was planning on buying a house after ILR. House buying plans may have to wait now.

Also I agree that there are exceptions - people get ill, have accidents, experience emergencies. Hard to imagine someone following the rules for 7 years 11 months and then getting kicked out because a car ran into them and broke their leg during that final month of Year 8.

herts · Post by **herts** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:44 pm

Prime Minister launches contract for foreign national seeking British citizenship
Last Updated: 20 February 2008

Radical changes to the way newcomers are able to earn their stay in Britain were proposed by the Government today.

Hari, the quote above is taken from home office website and according to english dictionary 'newcomers' means a person coming new to this country. We are not newcomers, we are oldcomers mate.
HO must be stupid to apply rules to already in the country as well. what do u all say

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:52 pm

herts wrote:
Prime Minister launches contract for foreign national seeking British citizenship
Last Updated: 20 February 2008

Radical changes to the way newcomers are able to earn their stay in Britain were proposed by the Government today.

Hari, the quote above is taken from home office website and according to english dictionary 'newcomers' means a person coming new to this country. We are not newcomers, we are oldcomers mate.
HO must be stupid to apply rules to already in the country as well. what do u all say

If your words are true I will be more happiest person as my ILR is due on next year

But need to confirm that.

Particularly I am not sure in what context that term 'new comer' is used. Is that for 'new comer' to UK , or 'new comer' to ILR

herts · Post by **herts** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:57 pm

http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... escontract

a three stage route to citizenship, including a new probationary period of citizenship, requiring new migrants to demonstrate their contribution to the UK at every stage or leave the country;

Hari, try to read the above website and give your opinion.

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:08 pm

herts wrote:
http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... escontract

a three stage route to citizenship, including a new probationary period of citizenship, requiring new migrants to demonstrate their contribution to the UK at every stage or leave the country;
Hari, try to read the above website and give your opinion.

Yes Hetrz I read the document too

In That document the term 'newcomer' is used for more than 5 times.

Is this rule is only for those who is freshly entering in PBS system?

If that is the case then existing hsmp holders no need to worry about this.

Thanks hertz for throwing light on this.

But anyway I wont be fully believing this until this rule really comes into force and published. But now temporarily we got relieved

herts · Post by **herts** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:11 pm

Hope so HO does not impose the new rules on existing people.

ashishashah · Post by **ashishashah** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:18 pm

I give up..I will work till i keep getting FLR..When i feel that i cannot go any more i will leave this country..

Really doesnt make any sense to go through this now as rules would have changed by the time i reach ILR/what ever it would be called..

I will think about these rules in 2012 (and i am sure rules would have changed by then!!!)

Ashish

herts · Post by **herts** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 9:32 pm

Ashish, just try to invest in your home country now I would say. I have already spoken to state bank of india uk branch and shud be going there next week sometime for getting a home loan for india mate. Wanted to buy here first but here only after I get permanent.

sunny9675 · Post by **sunny9675** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:02 pm

it is like

1+3 +3 + infinity

no body supported them now all in trouble

lets unit and

hk_007 · Post by **hk_007** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:19 pm

herts wrote:Hope so HO does not impose the new rules on existing people.

In all honesty I think this is nice thought but highly improbable given how previous changes in rules have been applied retrospectively. So be prepared to provide free labour (voluntary work as it is called!) and don't forget to have a wad of Â£Â£ ready to hand over as you jump through the hoops of getting to be citizen.

sunny9675 · Post by **sunny9675** » Thu Feb 21, 2008 10:35 pm

every extn you pay Â£ 750 / Â£ 1200 / Â£ 2000 +

but dont expect ILR / CITN

I came uk in 2004 my friend left to ausralia in 2005

we both r Indain CA , Luckly I am british quqlaified also

he got citizenship in last jan 08 and i am struggling for meeting my both ends and no future

it is a lesson for all those aspirant candidate please dont come here

it is waste of time ( if you just want to clean gutters or work in ASDA )

No future / no house / no family / completely waste of time

regards

herts · Post by **herts** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:45 am

Changes will apply to new arrivals after the laws are passed, not foreigners already living in the UK, meaning reforms are likely to affect only migrants arriving from 2010

http://www.theage.com.au/news/travel/au ... 41099.html

.

The above quotes are taken from the website above from australian newspaper. Reading this it seems pretty clear the ILR rules are for newcommers, then who is the one who is so confident saying these rules are for existing people as well. Please show us where it says specifically these rules will be subjected to existing people as well....

karupalli · Post by **karupalli** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:21 am

As of now these are not finalized by HO.. Once they are finalized nobody knows what form they take... they may/may not be retrospective.. but I hope the it will not be retrospective as per the news paper.

Rog · Post by **Rog** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:00 am

When they last made the changes in Dec 06, all the affected HSMP holders made lengthy correspondence with HO and one thing came out very clear, that the HO's understanding of restrospectiveness is very different from us. As per HO, if they allow us to complete our existing leaves without curtailing it, there is no retrospectiveness involved and as and when the FLR comes to an end, it would be extended/granted ILR/ rejected as per the laws in force at that time.

Hence it is very clear that when most of us complete our 5 years and would be due for ILR, if the new proposals for a probationary ILR have been implemented before this time, the treatment would definitely be done as per the laws in force then i e as per the new proposal. We would be fooling ourselves if we thought that any changes apply only to future HSMPs and not us.

Someone had questioned why people are going for a JR, it is being done to oppose injustice like this.

karupalli · Post by **karupalli** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:13 am

Yes.. that is very true. Anyway HO dont have patience to look into your visa time stamps to see when you came.. and what rules were there when you came here ..etc..etc. They follow only rules that are in force at the time you are applying for ILR.

karupalli · Post by **karupalli** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:56 am

Citizenship Review Panel

http://vbsi.org.uk/index.php?mact=News, ... eturnid=15

hari15 · Post by **hari15** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 1:26 pm

In BBC news they said that this may come into force on April 2009. In BBC they didnt mentioned anywhere that it is applicable only to new comers

whereas in Guradian they mentioned that this may affect only immigrants newly coming from 2010

So as of now no clear Idea on whether existing people will be affected or not

Those who are reaching 5 years before 2009 April are safe

Those who are reaching 5 years after that should be prepared for both scenarios of law change / no law change

PASS · Post by **PASS** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:22 pm

If you read Green Paper, you will find a clear answer

Source: Home office, Green paper-path to citizenship, Executive summary, point no 15, page 8

15. We want simplification to make our law more
straightforward for all its users, and our changes
in the law will support and enable the wider
work to transform the immigration system and
make it more effective.
All existing immigration laws will be replaced with
a clear, consistent and coherent legal framework
for the control of our borders and management
of migration. Key provisions will be set out in a
single focused piece of primary legislation.

So there won't be a difference between those who are already here and new comer!!

EdgeHillMole · Post by **EdgeHillMole** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 7:28 pm

Rog wrote:Someone had questioned why people are going for a JR, it is being done to oppose injustice like this.

All:

If you oppose retrospective changes, meaning after-the-fact changes that affect those already in country on HSMP, please contribute to the current JR against retrospective changes.

The JR is scheduled for early March, which is right around the corner, and at this critical time the JR Committee is looking for funds with which to pay the lawyers.

If we don't all work together to draw a line in the sand RIGHT NOW, they will never stop moving the goal posts on us.

MrBaboo · Post by **MrBaboo** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 10:57 pm

PASS wrote:If you read Green Paper, you will find a clear answer

Source: Home office, Green paper-path to citizenship, Executive summary, point no 15, page 8

15. We want simplification to make our law more
straightforward for all its users, and our changes
in the law will support and enable the wider
work to transform the immigration system and
make it more effective.
All existing immigration laws will be replaced with
a clear, consistent and coherent legal framework
for the control of our borders and management
of migration. Key provisions will be set out in a
single focused piece of primary legislation.

So there won't be a difference between those who are already here and new comer!!

You're assuming too much from just a few words here. "Clear, consistent and coherent" can be compatible with "only applicable to new entrants". We won't know for sure until the legislation is placed before parliament so let's not jump to too many conclusions.

Jacqui Smith was quoted as saying the changes will only apply to people arriving in Britain after the new laws are passed and not to foreigners already living in Britain. http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2008/02/ ... A-Brit.php

So while there are no guarantees, that's fairly encouraging.

sunny9675 · Post by **sunny9675** » Fri Feb 22, 2008 11:03 pm

every thing is fine but why money

i know nothing is free even lawyers time

whu not you get no win no fees lawyers

this is very sensistive case many r ready to fight

dont ask money like beggers for yu fight

this is forum to help not charity support

yes voluntary work are welcome

regards

olisun · Post by **olisun** » Sat Feb 23, 2008 3:15 pm

EdgeHillMole wrote:
Rog wrote:Someone had questioned why people are going for a JR, it is being done to oppose injustice like this.
All:

If you oppose retrospective changes, meaning after-the-fact changes that affect those already in country on HSMP, please contribute to the current JR against retrospective changes.

The JR is scheduled for early March, which is right around the corner, and at this critical time the JR Committee is looking for funds with which to pay the lawyers.

If we don't all work together to draw a line in the sand RIGHT NOW, they will never stop moving the goal posts on us.

U have to be careful about advertising for funds for other forums... U already got warned once...

http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... ht=#146768

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

5 years of HSMP wont lead to ILR- again Rules Changing

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Retrospectiveness

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