ID cards and travel

[Siggi]

So assuming that later on in the year all non EU nationals living in the UK will has to have the new ID.

Will this mean that they will also be able to travel within the EU on this ID without any visa restrictions as ID carrying Europens?

Any thoughs on this matter?

[sakura]

So assuming that later on in the year all non EU nationals living in the UK will has to have the new ID.

Will this mean that they will also be able to travel within the EU on this ID without any visa restrictions as ID carrying Europens?

Any thoughs on this matter?

I don't understand the last part...

If they are non-EU nationals then some of them will need visas, in which case they will still need a passport for the visa to be issued.

If they are non-EU nationals who don't need visas (such as US citizens) then it depends on what the ID card holds. For example, a driver's licence is an ID card but it is of little to no use as a travel document, and the
proposed ID card might work the same way - you can use it for certain purposes but it might not be valid for travel (to other countries) purposes.

[thsths]

Will this mean that they will also be able to travel within the EU on this ID without any visa restrictions as ID carrying Europens?

No. You may be able to use the ID card instead of a passport, but only if you obviously have the right to travel across Europe. If you need a visa, you will still need to use your passport.

Tom

[thirdwave]

So assuming that later on in the year all non EU nationals living in the UK will has to have the new ID.

Will this mean that they will also be able to travel within the EU on this ID without any visa restrictions as ID carrying Europens?

Any thoughs on this matter?

I doubt it. The ID card is primarily meant as a tool to keep tabs on foreigners in this country and make them feel intimidated and unwelcome (a bit like the badges for the Jews in Nazi Germany).Its sole purpose is to make life harder for non EU nationals and in that sense they are different from your usual EU ID card and therefore unlikely to include benefits like visa free travel. Things might change if the UK decides t join the schengen zone at some point in the future though..

[Siggi]

OK for example if you have a French or Germany ID card, you may enter the UK on this ID card.

So as a Non EU citizen with UK ID card I would think this would enough to enter another EU state.

[RobinLondon]

OK for example if you have a French or Germany ID card, you may enter the UK on this ID card.

So as a Non EU citizen with UK ID card I would think this would enough to enter another EU state.

Yes, but bearers of German or French ID cards are by definition German or French CITIZENS. These countries' authorities, like almost all European countries, do not issue Personalausweisen or Cartes d'identité to non-citizens. Non-citizens in these countries may get a type of internal ID with a different designation that does not function as a passport replacement for EU travel. The unique thing about the UK situation is that at least in the beginning, only NON-CITIZENS will be forced to carry UK-issued ID cards. Then eventually, all residents will have them, citizen or not.

To confirm, this was taken from the UK Identity and Passport Service website:

Can the version of the ID card for foreign nationals be used for travel?

No, only the passport (and in the case of EU countries*, the ID card) issued by someone's own country can be used for travel.

and

Could the card be used for travel in Europe?

Most citizens of the European Economic Area (EEA) countries are able to travel within Europe using their national ID cards rather than a full passport. An ID card with British nationality displayed on the card could be used for travel in Europe.

* For instance a Polish citizen resident in the UK but still in possession of a Polish ID card (and UK one, potentially) could still use her Polish ID card for EU travel. However, an American with a UK ID card would still need to travel with his US passport.

[gidget]

Every foriegn national should be scared about this and the requirement for an ID card, you are giving to a government agency very sensitive information about yourself, despite committing no crime, when these governement agencies are constantly losing sensitive information.

Oh my god where did that copy of my fingerprints end up - not in a garbage bag on a roundabout???

This, more than anything else should be something that ALL foriegn nationals in the UK should be getting in knots over not whether there is a likely extension of ILR!!

[shokishoki]

Not usually paranoid but I think I agree with Thirdwave on this one. While there are valid reasons for introducing ID cards, I think it's being rolled out on non-EU nationals as we are literally your classic "captive market". We can moan and groan as much as we want but the UK government is fully aware that economic,personal and family ties will keep most legal immigrants in the UK even if we protest and complain about retrospective changes, unfair rules etc. Ultimately the government is playing a no lose game. Keep the legal immigrants in, charge them any amount for renewals, extensions etc but rest assured they won't leave. We've all got a primal instinct for a good life and the almighty pound. By and large many of us (non EU nationals) have a reasonably good life here. Some will leave on principle and in annoyance for other climes but the government once again have probably calculated that this would only be a tiny fraction of the total number of "captives". Additionally rolling out ID cards on us will pacify the Daily Mail reading rightwing as well as the general populace who quite rightly have legitimate concerns about migration (legal and illegal). Finally to be fair if the rules are implemented robustly in the medium and long term I think there will be a quantifiable reduction in illegal immigration and illegal working. Apologies for long post.

[thsths]

The unique thing about the UK situation is that at least in the beginning, only NON-CITIZENS will be forced to carry UK-issued ID cards. Then eventually, all residents will have them, citizen or not.

Yes, it is almost as if they want to give the ID card a bad reputation for being useless, so that the whole project will fail in the end...

What bogs me is that they want to start with foreigners. Foreigners already have an identity document: the passport. The main problem with identity fraud in the UK is that BC do not have ID card.s Issuing ID cards to foreigners is obviously not going to help a bit.

The other problem is that the UK does not have a register of residence. (Well, actually they have two: the council tax register, and the electoral register, but neither are necessarily accurate or complete.) So my guess is that foreigners with ID cards will also be required to register. Which incidentally will again not solve the problem.

And I just read that they also plan to issue ID cards for EEA citizens in the future. WTH? Most EEA citizens already have an ID card, which is probably much more accurate and much more secure than anything the Home Office will ever manage.

* For instance a Polish citizen resident in the UK but still in possession of a Polish ID card (and UK one, potentially)

Exactly, what is that supposed to achieve? Anyway, it is not going to happen, because they can only do that once UK citizens are also required to have an ID card. Otherwise the reaction of the ECJ would be switch and painless (that is painless for me, not the Home Office).

Tom