Family visit visa got rejected - twice!!! PLZ HELP

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:09 pm

Dear members, this is my first post and I really need your advise here. Any replies would be highly appreciated.

First, let me explain you my situation:

I am married (no kids) and migrated from Australia, we both (me & wife) are Australian citizens and living in the UK on HSMP. We own a property in the UK and we both have excellent jobs, only my earning is in 6 figures.

My parents live in Pakistan and they are Pakistani national. My father owns quite a few properties in pakistan, including shops which he's rented them out, he enjoys staying home

Last year we applied twice for their family visit visa along my sister who's 18 years old and both time it got rejected.

There were no lies, nothing to hide and no way they wanted to stay here in the UK, infect I wont be here for long

but our mistakes have made their case very hard.

First Application:

The first application was a real mistake, I didnâ€™t provide any supporting documents. I know, I was way too confident that my status will get them the visa and the people I spoke to, also gave me the wrong information. I didnâ€™t do any research and just made the application. I put him as retired in the occupation column (I thought he's retired as he stays home:)) I also wrote a supporting sponsorship letter saying that I'll bear all costs of their travel and stay. I send all my bank statements and proof of property.

It got rejected, the reasons were following:

Guarantees by a sponsor are not enforceable by law and cannot be accepted as evidence of applicant's intentions. I was unable to judge the bona fides of your sponsor as I have been unable to speak to them at the time of decision.

You state that you are retired. However you have provided no evidence. You have provided no evidence of income, savings or assets in Pakistan

You have no income and savings to support your family, however you propose to spend a big amount to visit with no apparent urgency or special circumstances. I do not consider given especially in the light of your economic to be credible.

You have failed to show any reasonable evidence to demonstrate that you are established in Pakistan. You have provided no evidence of your daughterâ€™s education in Pakistan. You do not have stronger tied in Pakistan and no dependents left in Pakistan. I am not satisfied that you intend a visit for the purpose and period as stated by you.

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:12 pm

After the first rejection, we didnâ€™t appeal and instead made another application. My father has a constant income from those rental properties, and after speaking to a few people, this time I put him as a self-employed in the application form. I also wrote a detailed letter clarifying that it was an innocent mistake and this time I would provide all the relevant documents and proof of his rental income. Since my financial supporting letter wasnâ€™t accepted, I sent my father around 1,000,000 rupees in his account for his travelling costs.

This time it was a rejection again.

Reasons were following:

Guarantees by a sponsor are not enforceable by law and cannot be accepted as evidence of applicant's intentions. I was unable to judge the bona fides of your sponsor as I have been unable to speak to them at the time of decision.

You have failed to provide satisfactory evidence that you are self employed and earn 50,000 rupees a month as stated in your application. You state that you run a business yet you have not provided any business bank statements, no tax return. In your previous application you claimed to be retired. I am not therefore satisfied that your personal circumintances are as you claimed.

You have no income and savings to support your family, however you propose to spend a big amount to visit with no apparent urgency or special circumstances. I do not consider given especially in the light of your economic to be credible.

Your account shows deposit of 1,000,000 rupees that are wholly incommensurate with your claimed monthly income and it is apparent that you have gone to some long lengths to obtain these funds in the preparation of this trip. I conclude that these funds are either not available to you and they have been deposited solely to facilate this application or you have sold assets to obtain these funds. I consider the act of liquidating a substantial amount of your family investments in preparation for this trip to be significantly disproportionate purpose of which you intend to remain in the UK.

You have failed to provide reasonable evidence to demonstrate that you are established in Pakistan. You are no social ties or remaining dependents in Pakistan therefore on the balance f probabilities I am not satisfied.

Wanderer · Post by **Wanderer** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:22 pm

And are the reasons given valid?

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:25 pm

Itâ€™s been more than a year since the rejection of both applications. Now I want to apply again... without making any stupid mistakes

I need you guys advice about how to approach it this time. We have the full properties evaluation documents from civil contractors, bank statements, last yearâ€™s tax return and my sisterâ€™s educational proofs. My family have also been to Dubai and Saudi Arabia during that time. Now how should I approach it this time? One problem is that my fatherâ€™s bank statement doesnâ€™t show his rental income as individual transactions, in his account, heaps of money comes in and goes out.

We donâ€™t want to and didnâ€™t lie, this is a simple visit to come and meet his son and a daughter (married) who also lives in the UK. My sister also gave bith to a baby just a few months ago.

Thanks & Regards

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Sun Mar 02, 2008 4:27 pm

Wanderer wrote:And are the reasons given valid?

No, not a bit. It was a pure stupidity from my end. I just didnt provide enough douments...

t_kaay · Post by **t_kaay** » Mon Mar 03, 2008 11:07 pm

you sent him 1,000,000 rupees for travelling costs??? thats about Â£10,000!!......what were you planning to do, hire the whole aircraft??? i'm not suprised the ECO raised his eyebrows....if you are paying travelling costs for mother father and sister, this would be about Â£2,500 maximum in air tickets.

johnboy096 · Post by **johnboy096** » Wed Mar 05, 2008 6:50 pm

Assalamu Alaikum,

Have you read this thread

http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic. ... hlight=ait

Relative denied visitor visa to UK (from Pak) - Appeal Help By Gollywood

He won his appeal.

Good luck Inshallah!

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:15 am

t_kaay wrote:you sent him 1,000,000 rupees for travelling costs??? thats about Â£10,000!!......what were you planning to do, hire the whole aircraft??? i'm not suprised the ECO raised his eyebrows....if you are paying travelling costs for mother father and sister, this would be about Â£2,500 maximum in air tickets.

haha... not really, tickets were for business class and shopping that they wanted to do ... i know, it was a large sum of money.

Anyway guys, i would really appritiate if one can tell me what to do now!!! Is there any lawyer who can help me?

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:16 am

johnboy096 wrote:Assalamu Alaikum,

Have you read this thread

http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic. ... hlight=ait

Relative denied visitor visa to UK (from Pak) - Appeal Help By Gollywood

He won his appeal.

Good luck Inshallah!

WSlaam,

I'll read that thread, but in the meanwhile if anyone can tell me any laywer or good Visa agnets in the UK or in Pakistan who can look at the case and prepare a new application accordingly.

johnboy096 · Post by **johnboy096** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 11:27 am

shez_78 wrote:
johnboy096 wrote:Assalamu Alaikum,

Have you read this thread

http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic. ... hlight=ait

Relative denied visitor visa to UK (from Pak) - Appeal Help By Gollywood

He won his appeal.

Good luck Inshallah!
WSlaam,

I'll read that thread, but in the meanwhile if anyone can tell me any laywer or good Visa agnets in the UK or in Pakistan who can look at the case and prepare a new application accordingly.

Try Victoria Sharkey

MediVisas UK

http://www.medivisas.com/

She is very reputable she used to help out alot on this site and her contact details are on the above website!

Good Luck Inshallah!

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:24 pm

johnboy096 wrote:
shez_78 wrote:
johnboy096 wrote:Assalamu Alaikum,

Have you read this thread

http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic. ... hlight=ait

Relative denied visitor visa to UK (from Pak) - Appeal Help By Gollywood

He won his appeal.

Good luck Inshallah!
WSlaam,

I'll read that thread, but in the meanwhile if anyone can tell me any laywer or good Visa agnets in the UK or in Pakistan who can look at the case and prepare a new application accordingly.

Try Victoria Sharkey

MediVisas UK

http://www.medivisas.com/

She is very reputable she used to help out alot on this site and her contact details are on the above website!

Good Luck Inshallah!

Awesome, thanks for that link mate. I'll surly give them a call.
BEst Regards

johnboy096 · Post by **johnboy096** » Thu Mar 06, 2008 9:07 pm

shez_78 wrote:
johnboy096 wrote:
shez_78 wrote:
johnboy096 wrote:Assalamu Alaikum,

Have you read this thread

http://immigrationboards.com/viewtopic. ... hlight=ait

Relative denied visitor visa to UK (from Pak) - Appeal Help By Gollywood

He won his appeal.

Good luck Inshallah!
WSlaam,

I'll read that thread, but in the meanwhile if anyone can tell me any laywer or good Visa agnets in the UK or in Pakistan who can look at the case and prepare a new application accordingly.

Try Victoria Sharkey

MediVisas UK

http://www.medivisas.com/

She is very reputable she used to help out alot on this site and her contact details are on the above website!

Good Luck Inshallah!
Awesome, thanks for that link mate. I'll surly give them a call.
BEst Regards

You're welcome.

Remember Allah is always on the side of those who are honest and help the needy!

It'll be ok Inshallah!

gollywood · Post by **gollywood** » Sun Mar 09, 2008 6:14 pm

Just based on what you say in your thread, you are perhaps 'over-confident' and thought flashing the cash would overwhelm the ECO when making their decision.

Even when you think your application is watertight, ECO manages to pick a dozen holes in it - and if as you admit you dont have the documentation to back things up, its very difficult.

My advice (as someone who has just 'beaten' the goons at the Home Office) would be:-

1) Take your application seriously

2) Provide ALL required documents as the sponsor - it takes time to organise these things the best person to do this should be YOU.

3) Find out exactly what documents your relatives submitted to Islamabad - my experience is that (no offence intended), that Pakistanis are absolutely USELESS at complying with tthe most simplest of requests when it comes to providing paperwork.

They think they know best.

4) ECO queried and rejected our application on a payment of Â£1,500!!! Fortunately, because they had failed to read at least 6 different pieces of documentation in the application that referred to the source of this money, the appeal judge told them where to shove their rejection letter.

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Mon May 11, 2009 10:46 am

Fellow members,

Its been nearly 2 years since I last applied for my parents and a sister's visit visa for the uk, which was rejected twice (see above)... Now I am thinking of trying their luck again and this time taking it very serious ...

I wanted to find out and hear the similar experience from people who applied after a while and how they did it?

Do I have to justify the old mistakes like huge amount of money in their account etc!

How should I proceed - is there any point of getting a lawyer - do they really do anything in application submission?

Thanks in advance.

- Shez

Post by **batleykhan** » Tue May 12, 2009 9:15 am

Do I have to justify the old mistakes like huge amount of money in their account etc!

How should I proceed - is there any point of getting a lawyer - do they really do anything in application submission?

No you don't have to justify any of your previous mistakes. The ECO will assess your parents new application on the evidence that you supply with it now.

Most visitors from the Indian subcontinent get refused under Immigration Rule No 41, (i) (ii) and (vi) which are:

that the ECO is not satisfied that the sponsor will be able to maintain and accomadate the applicant without recourse t public funds:

that the applicant cannot show sufficiently strong family, social or economics ties to Pakistan

that the applicant is a genuine visitor and that they will leave the UK after the intended visit.

These are the three things that you have to prove in order to succeed with your parents application.

You as the sponsor need to show that you can do the first one, while your parents have to prove the other two points.

Putting large deposits in bank just before an application is made is a common mistake that happens here regularly

Show a family tree with application of the family back in Pakistan.

Show bank statements, pensions, employment records etc of your father. Obviously its a bit difficult with mothers, as women in Pakistan don't have jobs, houses on their names etc, as its mainly in their husbands or sons name.

Be honest and genuine. If you don't have any docs at hand explain that in a letter.

You can make the application yourself, you don't need a solicitor/lawyer to do that for you.

Good luck

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Tue May 12, 2009 10:23 am

Thanks Khan!!

Funny- last time one of the point was "Guarantees by a sponsor are not enforceable by law and cannot be accepted as evidence of applicant's intentions..."

i'll give it a go this time ...

anyway, i like the idea of family tree ....

do they really read the covering letter? ?!?!?

Cheers

bototo · Post by **bototo** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:10 am

I've experienced getting several family visitor visas, getting rejected, going to appeal and the IAT (multiple times) and dealing with the intransience of the visa officials. My experience has been that they don't even implement IAT judges' rulings unless you twist their arms.

Their #1 job is to find the hole in your application. You need to meet every condition and satisfy them on meeting every condition if you wish to get the visa. They need to find just one thing wrong with the application. The system, rightly or wrongly, is very skewed against you.

Given your past form I'd suggest getting a solicitor. I consider myself a veritable expert in some aspects of immigration law but I'd still use a solicitor - even if for no other reason than a demonstration that you're serious about the application and will raise hell and high water. He should be able to advise on the paperwork you submit with the application. I beleive choosing the right papers and putting together the bundle is an art form in itself.

Bear in mind that using one doesn't absolve you of all responsibility - you still have to scrutinise everything, ask him questions, examine everything he does.

Post by **batleykhan** » Tue May 12, 2009 11:13 am

Looking at some of the refusals that I have dealt with, i think they take a quick glance at your documents, and if they can find a reason to refuse, then they probally don't look at other things that you might have presented.

I know its a cynical view, but it does happen.

That's why it is important you have a water tight case and that you have given them as much information you can( true and honest info of course)

Guarantees by a sponsor are not enforceable by law and cannot be accepted as evidence of applicant's intentions..."

At least this bit is true. The sponsor is only as good as his word.

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Tue May 12, 2009 1:14 pm

well... what should i do then? get a solicitor or not?

do solicitors mention their name on the application? how would the home office know that I am "that" serious to even get a lawyer?

Who should ic ontact then? how much do these guys cost?
cheers

Post by **batleykhan** » Tue May 12, 2009 4:04 pm

I dont think a solicitor can do much with the initial application. You have to do that yourself.

If you get refused again, then you might want to go and seek the advice of a solicitor and pay for his service to appeal against the refusal. That is the only way the authorities might think you are serious. Be warned however they don't come cheap

Better still why not go the local office of UKIAS or JCWI , or a law centre for free advice.

sahdi · Post by **sahdi** » Tue May 12, 2009 6:10 pm

hi, you should ask your father to visit the immigration advisory service in Lahore, they wil really help you out, as I have experienced. Good luck.

bototo · Post by **bototo** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:14 am

do solicitors mention their name on the application? how would the home office know that I am "that" serious to even get a lawyer? Smile

I don't believe their real value is in the covering letter they submit with your application arguing why you meet clause X and sub clause Y.

A good solicitor will be invaluable in advising you on the paperwork to submit. A solicitor is not a requirement for everyone but given your track record - no offence

- it may be worth using one.

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:23 am

Friends, This is what I have been thinkingâ€¦.

My dad owns properties (shops), or in simple words he is a landlord. He collects rents from all those shops and does the maintenance etc â€“ thatâ€™s his fulltime Job!

He never had bank accounts prior to the first application we made for his visa that was nearly 2 years ago. Since then, he opened one up and using it on daily basis.

Earlier mistakes:

In the first application, with other naive mistakes of not providing enough documentation, I put his occupation as â€œretiredâ€

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:25 am

bototo wrote:
do solicitors mention their name on the application? how would the home office know that I am "that" serious to even get a lawyer? Smile
I don't believe their real value is in the covering letter they submit with your application arguing why you meet clause X and sub clause Y.

A good solicitor will be invaluable in advising you on the paperwork to submit. A solicitor is not a requirement for everyone but given your track record - no offence - it may be worth using one.

I agree ... I failed, twice...

Please read my last post and advice ... I am more then happy to get a lawyer... do you know any?

Cheers

shez_78 · Post by **shez_78** » Thu May 14, 2009 10:55 am

sahdi wrote:hi, you should ask your father to visit the immigration advisory service in Lahore, they wil really help you out, as I have experienced. Good luck.

Shadi, they live in Karachi !!!!

Immigrationboards.com: Immigration, work visa and work permit discussion board

Family visit visa got rejected - twice!!! PLZ HELP

Family visit visa got rejected - twice!!! PLZ HELP

2nd Application

Now I want to apply again ... but with all the cautions!!!