UKM or NS Application? Conflict

[kandikane9]

Good morning/day Everyone,

I believe I am British by Descent as I was born illegitimately to a British mother (born was to a married British mother in England) in Jamaica W.I. before January 1, 1983. When I was ten y/o I saw a black British passport of hers and I believe it was current. We are out of touch; she likes to do her own thing and resents having had children so I ordered her birth certificate from the UK gro and got a certified copy, I also of course have my own current JA passport (separated from the rest to get married), , my birth certificate shows her birthplace as England, and I have good character, only had two traffic tickets I paid promptly [the 4 documents to send in my case for UKM: my passport, **her expired passport**, my birth cert, her birth cert]. In theory, I've met the four requirements and am still looking for my old passports which have the entitlement of abode.

But my conflict is a financial one as my employer went bankrupt and things are still sticky. As I do not have an expired British passport of hers is the correct route then to apply for a Nationality Status to confirm I am British first, but it's almost $40K JMD in order to apply; but for the British passport (UKM) it is about $14K JMD which is the ceremony fee I would attend at the embassy. Any thoughts? What is the really right and sensible thing to do? Thank you for your time, appreciated.

[Scouse Mouse]

From the advice given to me on my post here (Help! ILR....)

"
A nationality status certificate application (Form NS) would be a waste of time/money- this is for those who haveautomatically acquired British citizenship and need a Home Office letter to prove it."

I am going to apply like yourself for citizenship using UKM

[Tea_Rocket]

Is there any way you can contact your mother to ask for her expired UK passport? It sounds to me like form UKM is the way to go and that you have all the documents for it that you need, save for that one.

I'm not sure Form NS is for you. While you almost certainly have the right to register as a UK citizen, I don't think you actually are one at the moment because of the laws about citizenship at the time you were born.

However, that's just my reading of the situation. You might want to wait for one of the gurus to turn up.

[kandikane9]

Scouse Mouse & Tea Rocket:

Thank you for your replies, I can just forget about the NS form then; did not know it would inapplicable to me at all.

In terms of my mother, I believe she is alive but I have no idea where she is, only met one relative of hers ever and that was about 20 yrs ago.

I'm not sure what you mean Tea_Rocket;

the UKM has four requirements to make you entitled to registration: 1. being born before 1 jan 1983, 2. if the laws were not chauvinistic at the time women could've passed on their nationality(by descent) (regardless of legitimacy) just like the men, 3. the right of abode because at the time of my birth my mother was and I believe still is a British Citizen, she would not renounce it in my opinion and didn't when I was born as I had entitlement of abode in every passport but this one, and 4. good character. And the last time, I remember all I went with was my birth certificate, at the time the service was free of charge. If I'm wrong I would like to be corrected, but I think it looks like I should qualify. Please clarify...because of the laws about citizenship at the time I was born...not sure what you mean Tea_Rocket.

Scouse Mouse: All the best on your application, please keep the forum updated. I was looking for a link in your post.

I wonder if I should go ahead then without her expired passport? And write a note explaining the situation? But I don't want my application to be unprocessed either and they are quite explicit in their instructions.....

[Tea_Rocket]

Please clarify...because of the laws about citizenship at the time I was born...not sure what you mean Tea_Rocket.

That was a reference to why the UKM form exists in the first place—prior to 1 January 1983, children of mothers who were British otherwise than by descent were not automatically granted British citizenship unless their fathers were also British citizens and their parents were married. Because this was the law when you were born, you were and are not a UK citizen, hence NS is a waste of time.

[kandikane9]

Ok, I know I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed so I'm confused.

I was under the impression that I am British by descent. Not otherwise by descent, which holds a host of different scenarios, none of which apply to me.

This is the heading of the UKM form:

Guide UKM
Registration as a British citizen – A
guide for certain persons born
before 1983 to British mothers

...................so what does this mean Tea_Rocket? I was born in 1980 to a mother born in England to a British mother who was married to my grandfather. They then left to return to Jamaica, where years later I saw what I believed to be a British passport of my mothers' and I received the Entitlement of abode in every passport except my current one. Because if I don't have the requirements to be British by descent, I would just try to reapply for the EofAbode to enter in order to find work.

So, is my interpretation still incorrect then?

[kandikane9]

Okay Tea_Rocket, I think I get you. I am not British. But based on the requirements, I can apply for the Citizenship in order to be British. That's what your saying right?

But that still leaves the question of what to do about not having an expired passport of my mother's? Should I still apply and risk it being unprocessed because it's missing?

[Tea_Rocket]

Okay Tea_Rocket, I think I get you. I am not British. But based on the requirements, I can apply for the Citizenship in order to be British. That's what your saying right?

Right.

But that still leaves the question of what to do about not having an expired passport of my mother's? Should I still apply and risk it being unprocessed because it's missing?

You could try and include a cover letter explaining that you don't know where you mother is. However, I think your application would probably have a low chance of being approved.

If you can prove that one of your mother's parents was a UK citizen, then you could come to the UK on an ancestry visa, which is good for five years. This could pave the way towards getting indefinite leave to remain (ILR) and then citizenship from there. However, it's a longer, and more expensive process. The fee for the visa is £496 (about 82k JMD), and then you'd have to pay whatever they're charging for ILR and naturalisation in five or six years.

You could also try form UKM first and then if that isn't approved, go for the ancestry visa route.

[kandikane9]

Okay....thank you Tea_Rocket.

I will definitely take the risk with the UKM as that fee is more manageable and just see what happens....

This is what I saw re Ancestry Visa:

UK Ancestry Visa Eligibility Criteria

You must be a Commonwealth citizen. yes
You must be able to prove you have a grandparent born in the UK, Channel Islands or the Isle or Man, or a grandparent born in the Republic of Ireland before 31 March 1922. Note that this grandparent does not still need to be alive. (can apply for her cert online) so yes
You must be 17 years of age or older. yes
You are able to and intend to take up employment in the UK. (that would be great)
You can provide proof of sufficient funds to support yourself in the UK. (still in interviewing processes)
You are able to support yourself and any dependents without recourse to public funds. (i have no dependents, husband might not join, don't know yet)
You must apply in your home country or the country in which you are legally resident.
If you are granted a UK Ancestry Visa, your spouse/unmarried partner and your children under 18 years old will be able to join you in the UK, provided they have entry clearance for this purpose.

Requirements to Acquire Permanent Residency

You continue to meet the requirements of the Immigration Rules for United Kingdom Ancestry.
You have spent time in employment in the UK without a break on your Ancestry Visa.
Evidence of Funds

To be eligible for this UK work visa you must provide proof of funds, for example a bank statement in your name, no older than 1 month which shows that last 3 months transaction history and a minimum final balance of AU$3000 (about 300k jmd as soon as I get a job). You must also be able to provide evidence to explain any large deposits into the account, such as payslips or sale of property receipts.

But I was wondering if it's simpler to just apply for EOA then?

Commonwealth citizenship
If you are not a British citizen, you could still have the right of abode if, on 31 December 1982 you
were:
• a Commonwealth citizen with a parent who, at the time of your birth or legal
adoption, was a citizen of the UK and Colonies and obtained their citizenship by
being born in the UK.
If you were born before 1 January 1983 and your mother was born in the UK, you
may qualify for registration as a British citizen. For further information see Guide UKM.

As it is around 70k jmd and there aren't as many factors to consider.

Because all they would need is:

Applicant is a Commonwealth (not
British) citizen born before 1 January
1983 to a parent who was born in the UK:
• Applicant’s full birth certificate showing
parents’ details; and
• Parent’s full UK birth certificate
• If claiming through the father, the marriage certificate.

So would that mean I wouldn't need an ILR in this case? And that I could possibly become a naturalized British citizen (therefore not by descent)after residing there continuously for the 5 yrs? If my husband decided to leave Jamaica I'm sure he would have to apply for a visa and probably the ILR too don't Tea_Rocket? Thanks in advance.

[Tea_Rocket]

But I was wondering if it's simpler to just apply for EOA then?

Commonwealth citizenship
If you are not a British citizen, you could still have the right of abode if, on 31 December 1982 you
were:
• a Commonwealth citizen with a parent who, at the time of your birth or legal
adoption, was a citizen of the UK and Colonies and obtained their citizenship by
being born in the UK.
If you were born before 1 January 1983 and your mother was born in the UK, you
may qualify for registration as a British citizen. For further information see Guide UKM.

As it is around 70k jmd and there aren't as many factors to consider.

Because all they would need is:

Applicant is a Commonwealth (not
British) citizen born before 1 January
1983 to a parent who was born in the UK:
• Applicant’s full birth certificate showing
parents’ details; and
• Parent’s full UK birth certificate
• If claiming through the father, the marriage certificate.

So would that mean I wouldn't need an ILR in this case? And that I could possibly become a naturalized British citizen (therefore not by descent)after residing there continuously for the 5 yrs? If my husband decided to leave Jamaica I'm sure he would have to apply for a visa and probably the ILR too don't Tea_Rocket? Thanks in advance.

You're right. Right of Abode is probably the route for you, and you would be free of immigration restrictions upon arrival in the UK with your certificate of entitlement. And yes, you would be able to naturalise after five years in the UK. Someone who applied in March this year applied after five years in the UK with a COE for ROA. This person has only made the one post, so we don't know the outcome of the application, but s/he applied through an Nationality Checking Service, suggesting that their caseworker probably didn't find anything amiss with this route to UK citizenship.

So if your UKM application is rejected, then there's always ROA. As for you husband, regardless of whether you're able to register as a UK citizen straight away or whether you go the ROA route, he will have to apply for a spouse visa (unless he also qualifies to register or for an ancestry visa). The costs for a spouse visa are pretty high, however.

[kandikane9]

Ok, that's plan B then; if you're not an expert you're getting there Tea_Rocket. Thanks so much.

[kandikane9]

Hello Everyone,

I believe I am in the right thread, new person. Shout out to Tea_Rocket. I would like to know all my options. If I decide to get an EOA in my current passport which I have had in all of my previous passports; after working for 3 months (I learned here an NIN# would have to be acquired first), I would legally be considered a resident and also settled, just so, correct?

And as a resident and settled person, if my husband does decide to leave JA (coward to the cold) at least for a while, and I am to earn the yearly almost 19k pounds from jobs (combination of teaching & construction work), is it true he can apply for spouse visa Forthwith then? No long waiting? *Just* find the works & adequate savings? So therefore I don't have to become a citizen first, which would take 5 yrs naturalised to be British otherwise than by descent; and am I right to assume that it's still take the 3 yrs for him to be in the same boat?

[I also learned it's my projected yearly income that is to be considered and not his; but he can work asap on landing]. He does have many siblings who are legal in the UK.

Thank you in advance for your time, hope I've been clear, being rushed out of lab.

[Tea_Rocket]

I don't know how long you have to be living and working in the UK to be considered ordinarily resident and settled. I think your settled status is automatic with Right of Abode. For a spouse visa, you'll need to show that you have been working for at least six months at a job (or jobs) that pays at least £18,600 per year. And yes, you will need to get a National Insurance number, though you can start work before it arrives, as your certificate of entitlement to right of abode will prove you have the right to work in the UK. However, my personal experience (from about seven years ago, so whatever that's worth) was that my employer wanted me to have the NI number before I started.

If you apply for naturalisation, it will have to be after five years of continuous residence. Once you have it, you will be a citizen otherwise than by descent. If your husband has been in the UK for three years once you're naturalised, he can apply to naturalise as the spouse of a British citizen. Note that spouse visas are good for only 2.5 years, which means he'll need to get two of them to cover his time in the UK before he can naturalise. However, if he's working while on the first one, then the second one should be easier to get for him, since his income can count toward the minimum income requirement if it's done in the UK.

Best of luck to you!

[kandikane9]

Ok, I feel super informed now for either option, God bless Tea_Rocket.