Brit plus non EEA family wanting to immigrate to Ireland.

[SingingSeagull]

Hi folks. I'm new to this forum but am hoping someone can clarify my position which is as follows :

I am a British expat who has lived in Indonesia for over four years with my partner and her two children, who are all Indonesian. All three are fluent in English. We are hoping to move permanently to Ireland as soon as possible. I understand from the Citizens Information website that as a British subject I have pretty much unrestricted access in moving permanently to Ireland. My confusion surrounds how best to bring my family with me. We are not yet married as it is illegal to marry across religions here in Indonesia, and anyway, my divorce is some months off being completed. It would seem appropriate to get married in Ireland as we both really want to make that commitment as soon as we can. I am very confident that we can prove our ongoing relationship to anybody's satisfaction.

Ideally we want to move to Ireland as soon as possible - i.e. in the next few months - as the education of our children is paramount and this timing would fit well with their ages.

I am aged 55 and retired from work with a modest pension income. I intend to return to work in Ireland in some capacity in order to supplement that income. I also have a lump sum of funds available to act as cushion in case of need.

Am I right in understanding that if I come on my own to Ireland my family could join me shortly afterwards on 3 month tourist visas and then make applications to stay as my family members? This sounds rather too simple and I'm sure there must be a lot more to it.

Can anybody explain to me, a mere simpleton, in words of one syllable, just what is the best way of achieving this move?

Thank you in anticipation!

[SingingSeagull]

Okay, so here's where I am at...

I'm a British guy, living in Indonesia for over 4 years as a family with my Indonesian partner and her two children. We aren't married yet as my divorce in UK isn't finalised yet.

We want to move permanently to Ireland as soon as possible. I understand that as I am British I have an unrestricted right of entry (i.e. no need to find work immediately etc). I also understand that my family all have the right to join me in Ireland permanently as 'permitted family members' since we are a bona Gide family and they are financially and otherwise dependant upon me.

Can anyone help in confirming the process for my partner and children in joining me? Am I right in thinking that they apply for a 'short stay C visa' which will allow them in for three months, during which time they apply to stay permanently with me?

If this is correct, how long does the permanent residence application take and are they allowed to stay in Ireland while awaiting a decision?

I really need some clear guidance folks, and would really appreciate some straightforward, non-jargon guidance here.

Thanks everyone.

[joaovitorcte]

Hi, You will need to provide some informations to the Irish Consulate/Embassy which will be considering your application, as a British Citizen you don't need a visa for Ireland, If you, your partner and children been living together for more than 2 years then you will get a short visit visa, you will need to provide evidences of that cohabitation, although your partner will not be able to get a residence permit in Ireland, as you are not divorced yet, remember that you also need to meet financial requirements and other procedures for the children.

[SingingSeagull]

Hi Joaovitorcte.

Many thanks for that guidance. Yes, I was unaware that my divorce needed to be completed before my partner/family could get a residence permit in Ireland. I have seen that my partner/family could join me but I cannot find anywhere on the INIS pages where it states that my divorce must be complete first. Are you able to provide me with a link or a reference point for that information? That would be a great help.

Many thanks for taking the trouble to reply. Kind regards.

[selkie]

I think all this will change with Brexit. You don't have a "right" as a British citizen to live in Ireland if you are not part of the European Union. It just doesn't sound right-especially given the history. I may be a bit sensitive since my grandparents are Irish and my Great grandparents on my mother's side were subject to British rule and left Ireland because of it. You HAD a right WHEN BRITAIN was part of the EU now that Britain is not in the EU you really have no rights to live there. Sorry but that's reality. They may take a year maximum to boot people out but that is why every one on here from Britain has waited 7 months for their Foreign Birth Registration. I don't understand why you feel "as a British citizen" you have a "right' to live in Ireland. Can you explain this because I must be misinformed. I cannot imagine British citizens not within the EU agreement having the "right" to live in Ireland if they have no irish grandparent. It does not seem correct to me. I guess I don't understand where you are getting this "right" from unless you mean as it pertains to citizens of the European Union. That's Gone now and every one in Britain with Irish ancestry is applying for Foreign Birth Registration. Just trying to help. If your parents and grandparents are from Ireland you Absolutely have a Right otherwise you Don't and your girlfriend certainly doesn't, being Indonesian. If you haven't even been divorced I doubt that you will make the timeframe before the permanent change of the EU has taken place. I think you are too late. Maybe you left out that your grandparents are Irish?

[Wanderer]

I think all this will change with Brexit. You don't have a "right" as a British citizen to live in Ireland if you are not part of the European Union. It just doesn't sound right-especially given the history. I may be a bit sensitive since my grandparents are Irish and my Great grandparents on my mother's side were subject to British rule and left Ireland because of it. You HAD a right WHEN BRITAIN was part of the EU now that Britain is not in the EU you really have no rights to live there. Sorry but that's reality. They may take a year maximum to boot people out but that is why every one on here from Britain has waited 7 months for their Foreign Birth Registration. I don't understand why you feel "as a British citizen" you have a "right' to live in Ireland. Can you explain this because I must be misinformed. I cannot imagine British citizens not within the EU agreement having the "right" to live in Ireland if they have no irish grandparent. It does not seem correct to me. I guess I don't understand where you are getting this "right" from unless you mean as it pertains to citizens of the European Union. That's Gone now and every one in Britain with Irish ancestry is applying for Foreign Birth Registration. Just trying to help. If your parents and grandparents are from Ireland you Absolutely have a Right otherwise you Don't and your girlfriend certainly doesn't, being Indonesian. If you haven't even been divorced I doubt that you will make the timeframe before the permanent change of the EU has taken place. I think you are too late. Maybe you left out that your grandparents are Irish?

Sorry this not true, due to the CTA which stemmed largely from British and Ireland both being in the UK until recent history (1922) nationals of either country are not consider foreign and are not subject to immigration control, think of it as ILR waiver.

I'm British, but I lived in Ireland in part of the 60's and 70's, no visa, no nothing, don't need one.

Whilst the CTA has no legal standing it's predated the EU and part of Anglo-Irish life and culture, it will never go away.

I'm not sure how spouses are affected here, but it doesn't apply in this case, unless the OP is using EU rules and SS to circumvent UK rules.

[selkie]

I looked it up and it appears there currently is no visa needed between the 2 countries; however then why are Brits applying for citizenship en masse?

[selkie]

I think all this will change with Brexit. You don't have a "right" as a British citizen to live in Ireland if you are not part of the European Union. It just doesn't sound right-especially given the history. I may be a bit sensitive since my grandparents are Irish and my Great grandparents on my mother's side were subject to British rule and left Ireland because of it. You HAD a right WHEN BRITAIN was part of the EU now that Britain is not in the EU you really have no rights to live there. Sorry but that's reality. They may take a year maximum to boot people out but that is why every one on here from Britain has waited 7 months for their Foreign Birth Registration. I don't understand why you feel "as a British citizen" you have a "right' to live in Ireland. Can you explain this because I must be misinformed. I cannot imagine British citizens not within the EU agreement having the "right" to live in Ireland if they have no irish grandparent. It does not seem correct to me. I guess I don't understand where you are getting this "right" from unless you mean as it pertains to citizens of the European Union. That's Gone now and every one in Britain with Irish ancestry is applying for Foreign Birth Registration. Just trying to help. If your parents and grandparents are from Ireland you Absolutely have a Right otherwise you Don't and your girlfriend certainly doesn't, being Indonesian. If you haven't even been divorced I doubt that you will make the timeframe before the permanent change of the EU has taken place. I think you are too late. Maybe you left out that your grandparents are Irish?

Sorry this not true, due to the CTA which stemmed largely from British and Ireland both being in the UK until recent history (1922) nationals of either country are not consider foreign and are not subject to immigration control, think of it as ILR waiver.

I'm British, but I lived in Ireland in part of the 60's and 70's, no visa, no nothing, don't need one.

Whilst the CTA has no legal standing it's predated the EU and part of Anglo-Irish life and culture, it will never go away.

I'm not sure how spouses are affected here, but it doesn't apply in this case, unless the OP is using EU rules and SS to circumvent UK rules.

1922 is almost 100 years of Irish sovereignty is hardly recent. cheers. Ireland can do whatever She chooses so don't take anything for granted. No longer Anglo Irish and hasn't been since 1916. Irish Uprising. I have never heard an Irish person self-identify as Anglo-Irish maybe in Northern Ireland, I've heard a lot of things-Spanish descent, Basque, even Selkies;) but never "Anglo" .

[selkie]

The 2 countries have a trade agreement which might keep this visa-free pact in tact; however I would argue that precisely BECAUSE of non-recent history; i.e; 100 years ago and recent history-territorial disputes as recent as 20 years ago- that English citizens would NOT be given the Privilege to live there . It is a Privilege as Ireland is NOT part of Britain, never wished to be and never will be. all the best. I feel the need to state this because it truly is a privilege for non-Irish people not a Right. There is an HUGE difference between the words and I feel British citizens should be grateful.

[selkie]

"It will never go away." Magical thinking.

[jlad]

I looked it up and it appears there currently is no visa needed between the 2 countries; however then why are Brits applying for citizenship en masse?

UK and Ireland have been under Common Travel Area Agreement for a long time, even before EU free movement rights. Therefore, a British citizen does not require passport to enter Ireland nor Irish citizen requires passport to enter UK, however you do need to provide some sort of ID to prove you are entitled under this agreement, and this has nothing to do with Brexit and is in fact the agreement under CTA. Again, british citizens are treated the same as Irish while living in Ireland, vice versa, Irish citizen are treated as British while living in the UK. Both citizens have rights to claim benefits so long they have establish residence in the country. 'Unlike other EU citizens, UK citizens may retire to Ireland without having to establish that they have sufficient resources or that they have private health insurance', quote from citizeninformation.ie

For more Information regarding to Residence Rights of UK Citizens, i have provide a link, http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... izens.html

I am not saying the rules and laws will not change but issues and outcome of Brexit is still unknown and it is too early to say for definite what it might be, so the current law still in force.

The answer as to why british citizen applying irish citizenships en mass, well as far as Irish government is concern, a lot of british citizens are irish citizen already (as well). According to Irish Nationality Law, for example, the second generation (children) of irish citizen (born on Island of Ireland) are automatically Irish no matter where they are born, and for those who are born in Northern Ireland are automatically Irish as well, if they decided to be Irish according to Good Friday Agreement - Northern Irish have rights to decide whether they would want to be Irish, British or both. What they do is applying for a passport which they are entitled to, by the way, you dont need to have a passport to be Irish Citizen, but passport is often the quickest and easiest way to prove your entitlement of a citizenship. I think the reason why people are after applying for Irish passport which they are entitled to is not because they would want to move to Ireland, they are just simply wanting to have free movement rights under EU laws (don't forget about 48% of british voted to stay too) and provide them with easy access or less restriction when going for holiday or moving to another EU countries, for that, apparently UK has closed that door after Brexit but we will not know for sure until the negotiation has completed on Brexit.

[Wanderer]

I think all this will change with Brexit. You don't have a "right" as a British citizen to live in Ireland if you are not part of the European Union. It just doesn't sound right-especially given the history. I may be a bit sensitive since my grandparents are Irish and my Great grandparents on my mother's side were subject to British rule and left Ireland because of it. You HAD a right WHEN BRITAIN was part of the EU now that Britain is not in the EU you really have no rights to live there. Sorry but that's reality. They may take a year maximum to boot people out but that is why every one on here from Britain has waited 7 months for their Foreign Birth Registration. I don't understand why you feel "as a British citizen" you have a "right' to live in Ireland. Can you explain this because I must be misinformed. I cannot imagine British citizens not within the EU agreement having the "right" to live in Ireland if they have no irish grandparent. It does not seem correct to me. I guess I don't understand where you are getting this "right" from unless you mean as it pertains to citizens of the European Union. That's Gone now and every one in Britain with Irish ancestry is applying for Foreign Birth Registration. Just trying to help. If your parents and grandparents are from Ireland you Absolutely have a Right otherwise you Don't and your girlfriend certainly doesn't, being Indonesian. If you haven't even been divorced I doubt that you will make the timeframe before the permanent change of the EU has taken place. I think you are too late. Maybe you left out that your grandparents are Irish?

Sorry this not true, due to the CTA which stemmed largely from British and Ireland both being in the UK until recent history (1922) nationals of either country are not consider foreign and are not subject to immigration control, think of it as ILR waiver.

I'm British, but I lived in Ireland in part of the 60's and 70's, no visa, no nothing, don't need one.

Whilst the CTA has no legal standing it's predated the EU and part of Anglo-Irish life and culture, it will never go away.

I'm not sure how spouses are affected here, but it doesn't apply in this case, unless the OP is using EU rules and SS to circumvent UK rules.

1922 is almost 100 years of Irish sovereignty is hardly recent. cheers. Ireland can do whatever She chooses so don't take anything for granted. No longer Anglo Irish and hasn't been since 1916. Irish Uprising. I have never heard an Irish person self-identify as Anglo-Irish maybe in Northern Ireland, I've heard a lot of things-Spanish descent, Basque, even Selkies;) but never "Anglo" .

The Easter Rising failed, the rebel forces surrendered unconditionally. Ireland left the UK and became the Irish Free State in 1922, part of the commonwealth and dominion of the empire and had the King/Queen as the Monarch.

I meant recent in comparison to 800 years of English/British rule.

Ireland won't want to the leave the CTA, neither will the UK (or IoM or CI for that matter) - it's worked very well and to revoke it would create a holy mess, with all the Irish living in the UK and vice versa, as this situation has existed for over 800 years.

[selkie]

Thanks J, I was "slightly confused." I did not know about that agreement and the other poster chose not to elaborate so Thanks so much:) Now, I am informed. As someone not British, it seemed very strange. Have a great day. P.S. it is still a privilege.

[jlad]

Thanks J, I was "slightly confused." I did not know about that agreement and the other poster chose not to elaborate so Thanks so much:) Now, I am informed. As someone not British, it seemed very strange. Have a great day. P.S. it is still a privilege.

That is not a problem, happy to explain.

For your Information, there is no such thing as English citizen, only British citizen and Ireland was technically never part of Great Britain. Ireland (whole Island of Ireland), was, however part of UK, until the split of North and Republic.

The full name of the current UK is United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, hence, UK has got 4 countries, England, Scotland, Wales (3 of the countries are in Great Britain) and Northern Ireland (1 being on the Island of Ireland).

Indeed, it is privilege for British to live in Ireland given by the agreement, but it works both ways, it is also a privilege for Irish living in the UK without any restriction or conditions.

[selkie]

Thanks J, I was "slightly confused." I did not know about that agreement and the other poster chose not to elaborate so Thanks so much:) Now, I am informed. As someone not British, it seemed very strange. Have a great day. P.S. it is still a privilege.

That is not a problem, happy to explain.

For your Information, there is no such thing as English citizen, only British citizen and Ireland was technically never part of Great Britain. Ireland (whole Island of Ireland), was, however part of UK, until the split of North and Republic.

The full name of the current UK is United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, hence, UK has got 4 countries, England, Scotland, Wales (3 of the countries are in Great Britain) and Northern Ireland (1 being on the Island of Ireland).

Indeed, it is privilege for British to live in Ireland given by the agreement, but it works both ways, it is also a privilege for Irish living in the UK without any restriction or conditions.

I am not clueless! I used "English" purposefully to distinguish the English from the Scottish and Welsh. I never thought there was such thing as an English citizen. I am quite educated in geography, simply uninformed about trade and resident agreements

I KNOW the UK includes, Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. And I don't think it is a privilege but a courtesy of the UK to allow Irish to live there since they dominated Ireland relentlessly for 800 years. I am not laughing at your ASSumption that I know nothing simply because I was unaware of the residency pact. Have a nice day.

[selkie]

Wanderer,
The Easter Rising failed but the Irish never gave up and only six years later achieved independence.

[Wanderer]

Wanderer,
The Easter Rising failed but the Irish never gave up and only six years later achieved independence.

And then immediately fell into Civil War which killed more Irish then the War of Independence did and split the country politically in two even now (Fine Gael and Fianna Foil).

A lot of spilt blood over the years and its not all down to the British to be fair.

Also to complete the UK/GB/British Isles picture the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands are part of the British Isles, not part of the United Kingdom, but are party to the Common Travel Area.

[SingingSeagull]

Looks like I've started some kind of war - not my intention.

Selkie, you really don't like Brits do you. You're not doing much for the friendly reputation of Irish folk!

Obviously I don't know all the answers, or I wouldn't have posted my question in the first place, but from the research I have done, even I clearly know more about this than you do! I'd politely suggest that you check a few facts before spouting such utter tripe.

Good day.
( )

[Wanderer]

Looks like I've started some kind of war - not my intention.

Selkie, you really don't like Brits do you. You're not doing much for the friendly reputation of Irish folk!

Obviously I don't know all the answers, or I wouldn't have posted my question in the first place, but from the research I have done, even I clearly know more about this than you do! I'd politely suggest that you check a few facts before spouting such utter tripe.

Good day.
( )

I like a bit of a discussion but does spill over sometimes. Sorry for that!

[SingingSeagull]

Hi Wanderer.

Nothing to apologise for. You speak facts, unlike some!

[Wanderer]

Another interesting factoid, Ireland was in fact united in 1922, for one day! As part of the separation, the agreement was that the six loyalist counties in the North would vote the next day on whether they wish to remain in the new Irish Free State, or rejoin the United kingdom, they did the latter as expected.

Michael Collins got this wrong, he thought only four countries would accede, and ultimately as he predicted, it cost him his life...

[jlad]

Thanks J, I was "slightly confused." I did not know about that agreement and the other poster chose not to elaborate so Thanks so much:) Now, I am informed. As someone not British, it seemed very strange. Have a great day. P.S. it is still a privilege.

That is not a problem, happy to explain.

For your Information, there is no such thing as English citizen, only British citizen and Ireland was technically never part of Great Britain. Ireland (whole Island of Ireland), was, however part of UK, until the split of North and Republic.

The full name of the current UK is United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland, hence, UK has got 4 countries, England, Scotland, Wales (3 of the countries are in Great Britain) and Northern Ireland (1 being on the Island of Ireland).

Indeed, it is privilege for British to live in Ireland given by the agreement, but it works both ways, it is also a privilege for Irish living in the UK without any restriction or conditions.

I am not clueless! I used "English" purposefully to distinguish the English from the Scottish and Welsh. I never thought there was such thing as an English citizen. I am quite educated in geography, simply uninformed about trade and resident agreements

I KNOW the UK includes, Scotland, England, Wales and Northern Ireland. And I don't think it is a privilege but a courtesy of the UK to allow Irish to live there since they dominated Ireland relentlessly for 800 years. I am not laughing at your ASSumption that I know nothing simply because I was unaware of the residency pact. Have a nice day.

I am so sorry if i offended you though, wasn't my intention i have seen on the other post that you have said that you are American and is on the process of applying Foreign Birth Registration. I personally know a lot of americans dont understand the different between UK/GB etc so i am sorry for assuming you are the same.

As per English citizen argument i am simply quoting you what you have said on previous post, nothing personal. A bit of tip for you next time, just say English, Scottish or Welsh and not put citizen at the end as some may be confused.

I also personally know a few irish serve in british army. Irish and British are very similar in so many ways and a lot of times they dont see each other as foreigners at all.

[JAJ]

I am a British expat who has lived in Indonesia for over four years with my partner and her two children, who are all Indonesian. All three are fluent in English. We are hoping to move permanently to Ireland as soon as possible. I understand from the Citizens Information website that as a British subject I have pretty much unrestricted access in moving permanently to Ireland. My confusion surrounds how best to bring my family with me.

British subjects do not have any rights to live in Ireland. However- British citizens do. Your passport should make it clear on the ID page what your British nationality status is. http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... izens.html

Rights of residence for family members:
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/mo ... mbers.html

Under current law it will be 5 years legal residence required in order to get Irish citizenship. British citzenship is not lost upon becoming Irish. As I understand it, Indonesian citizenship probably would be lost- although that may not be important at the time.

For more specific advice, you may want to consult with an Irish immigration solicitor.

[CR001]

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