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Question about Spouse Visa Appeal please help

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ClaireM
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Question about Spouse Visa Appeal please help

Post by ClaireM » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:18 pm

HI all

My husband has been refused entry clearance and we have appealed - expected date for appeal is likely to be August/September. The problem is that my husband is stuck in Lebanon, the situation is looking like there will be a war out there at the moment and I am really scared for him. Is there anything we can do if war does break out ie. to get his application looked at again or something? My husband has a treatable form of cancer and we have already tried to bring the appeal forward on compassionate grounds but the AIT said no.

Could a senior member please let me know the legal position on all this.

If anyone knows of anyone who has been in such a dangerous situation while waiting for an appeal please let me know is there anything we can do.

jei2
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Location: London

Post by jei2 » Mon Mar 03, 2008 12:59 pm

ClaireM.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It must be very stressful for both of you.

What reasons did the Entry Clearance Officer give for refusing your husband leave to enter?

What were your grounds for appeal?
Oh, the drama...!

ClaireM
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:21 am

Post by ClaireM » Mon Mar 03, 2008 1:11 pm

jei2 wrote:ClaireM.

I'm sorry to hear about your situation. It must be very stressful for both of you.

What reasons did the Entry Clearance Officer give for refusing your husband leave to enter?

What were your grounds for appeal?

Hiya

The grounds for refusal were not believeing that the marriage was real - ECO chose to ignore al the proof that we had been living together for the last 3 years. And not believing that I am able to support him although I earn £36,000 per annum!!

What about you what's your situation?

jei2
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Location: London

Post by jei2 » Tue Mar 04, 2008 6:57 pm

Claire,

To clarify, did you submit documentary evidence of living together and of your income at the time of the application ? If so you could simply try requesting a review of the case from the Entry Clearance Manager in Lebanon, using your husband's medical circumstances as an additional factor.

If your documentary information was submitted after the application was refused, some Immigration Judges may refuse to take account of evidence submitted after the decision was made, even if it appertains to your application.

If this is the case, then it might be easier to re-apply ensuring that all the required documents are submitted at the same time. However if the ECO's opinion about your marriage was a subjective analysis "on the balance of probabilities" it will be quite difficult to overcome this.

Should I assume that your husband was an overstayer who returned home to make an application through the proper channels? This can sometimes create bias (my personal view) on the part of Entry Clearance Officers.

Unfortunately my experience comes from advising clients who fall under similar circumstances.
Oh, the drama...!

ClaireM
Newly Registered
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:21 am

Post by ClaireM » Wed Mar 05, 2008 8:33 am

jei2 wrote:Claire,

To clarify, did you submit documentary evidence of living together and of your income at the time of the application ? If so you could simply try requesting a review of the case from the Entry Clearance Manager in Lebanon, using your husband's medical circumstances as an additional factor.

If your documentary information was submitted after the application was refused, some Immigration Judges may refuse to take account of evidence submitted after the decision was made, even if it appertains to your application.

If this is the case, then it might be easier to re-apply ensuring that all the required documents are submitted at the same time. However if the ECO's opinion about your marriage was a subjective analysis "on the balance of probabilities" it will be quite difficult to overcome this.

Should I assume that your husband was an overstayer who returned home to make an application through the proper channels? This can sometimes create bias (my personal view) on the part of Entry Clearance Officers.

Unfortunately my experience comes from advising clients who fall under similar circumstances.

Hi jei 2

Thanks for replying,

We submitted all the evidence about our marriage, living together my income the illness and everything with the initial application and it was refused on the grounds of the balance of probabilities. The ECO even threw in the fact that he had been to an NHS hospital for treatment as recourse to public finds. He was an overstayer who returned to make an application through the proper channels. My MP has requested a review of the case but didn't ask me to send any extra evidence just a letter answering the refusal points. We are still waiting to hear the outcome of this. Are you saying that my case is a difficult one because of the 'balance of probablilities' term?

chrissy
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Post by chrissy » Wed Mar 05, 2008 9:18 am

Sorry to hear about the refusal, ClaireM. I hope you are successful in your appeal.

Can you tell me how long it was after you submitted your application that you received your results?

Keep the faith.

ClaireM
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Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:21 am

Post by ClaireM » Wed Mar 05, 2008 10:06 am

chrissy wrote:Sorry to hear about the refusal, ClaireM. I hope you are successful in your appeal.

Can you tell me how long it was after you submitted your application that you received your results?

Keep the faith.
Hiya

It was only one week. They didn't ask us for an interview and just rung us up told us the decision had been made on paper and we could come and collect it.

jei2
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Location: London

Post by jei2 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 2:36 pm

Hmm.. as I was musing earlier about personal bias...

Claire, if you are confident that your evidence was submitted and you fulfilled the criteria of para 281 of the Immigration Rules, you might want to hold on for the appeal. Simply because of the possibility that some diplomatic posts might start to apply the overstayer re-entry penalties before they actually become effective on 1 April 2008.

Furthermore a new application might not make any difference to the ECO's views; you now need to swing the "balance of probabilities" aspect of the refusal in your favour as the Immigration Judge will also look at this.

This would give you time to submit further evidence such as letters from friends, family, receipts, telephone bills, correspondence between the two of you (emails, text messages etc). It's also possible to get telephone records from international dialling cards so if either of you are using these hold on to them. This is not new evidence per se, but throws further light on the existing issue of whether or not the marriage is genuine.

Remember that the onus will be on your husband not on you, to prove that there is "intervening love and devotion" eg that his feelings for you have not diminished with distance and separation. Ensure that you keep all his cards, letters, etc to you...and that he keeps receipts of the money and gifts etc that you are sending him...

Look at the arguments made by the ECO as objectively as you can and ask yourself: on what (lack of) evidence might their assumptions have been made? Then work on finding practical documentary evidence to counteract it.

Note that the ECO might also be taking into account other differences between your husband and yourself, particularly if you are the older spouse and there is a significant age gap.

Remember that evidence of marriage is not just signified by a marriage certificate and shared utility bills; how the marriage is viewed externally by friends and family could be a significant factor. If you can but haven't already done so, gather as many supporting letters as possible from these quarters. And of course your husband will want to know how your mutual friends and relatives are faring back in the UK.

Finally, if the ECO disregarded evidence of your more than sufficient income (assuming it was just for the two of you), you can argue that this assessment was flawed, and it leads on from there that their assessment of whether or not the marriage is genuine was either:

i) subsequently flawed or
ii) too subjective to be reliable as grounds for refusal.

This should give the IJ something to chew on while s/he decides whether or not they agree...
Oh, the drama...!

ClaireM
Newly Registered
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:21 am

Post by ClaireM » Wed Mar 05, 2008 3:29 pm

jei2 wrote:Hmm.. as I was musing earlier about personal bias...


This should give the IJ something to chew on while s/he decides whether or not they agree...

Hi

Thanks for all of this it is very helpful. Do you know if the MPs application to re-visit our original Entry Clearance application will be treated as a new application or will it be treated under the laws that were in place when it was first looked at?

jei2
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Joined: Thu Feb 14, 2008 12:49 pm
Location: London

Post by jei2 » Wed Mar 05, 2008 5:05 pm

It's a review of the original application but it doesn't hurt for you to further outline the points re the assessment of your income making the refusal decision potentially flawed.

Don't rely too much on the MP's input; they have their own caseworkers and its probably one of them who is corresponding with you. Get your own bit in.

The more you can provide a rational balanced argument the greater the chances that the review will be positive. Highlight how much you and your husband love and miss each other as well.

Go for diplomacy and understanding of the difficulties of the ECO's task rather than the "are you the village idiot? approach (tempting as it may be). A bit of kissy kissy never hurts in these situations.

Hope it goes well for you.
Oh, the drama...!

ClaireM
Newly Registered
Posts: 14
Joined: Sun Jan 13, 2008 12:21 am

Post by ClaireM » Thu Mar 06, 2008 7:56 am

jei2 wrote:It's a review of the original application but it doesn't hurt for you to further outline the points re the assessment of your income making the refusal decision potentially flawed.

Don't rely too much on the MP's input; they have their own caseworkers and its probably one of them who is corresponding with you. Get your own bit in.

The more you can provide a rational balanced argument the greater the chances that the review will be positive. Highlight how much you and your husband love and miss each other as well.

Go for diplomacy and understanding of the difficulties of the ECO's task rather than the "are you the village idiot? approach (tempting as it may be). A bit of kissy kissy never hurts in these situations.

Hope it goes well for you.





Hey Thanks for your help - fingers crossed!!! Just a matter of waiting now.

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