Several Questions, with a view toward Irish Citizenship

[jman0warS]

For an American, what would be the quickest and most painless path to go toward eventual irish citizenship?
Please note this would be through marrying an Irish citizen.
We could marry in Ireland or Beyond, which is best?
If we have a civil marriage in another country, are there any that are better options than others? Like should we marry in USA, or the UK?
Should we get an immigration lawyer?
Where do we find one of those?


After we get married, how does the NON-EU person get to reside and work in Ireland?

[asrpb]

For an American, what would be the quickest and most painless path to go toward eventual irish citizenship?
Please note this would be through marrying an Irish citizen.
We could marry in Ireland or Beyond, which is best?
If we have a civil marriage in another country, are there any that are better options than others? Like should we marry in USA, or the UK?
Should we get an immigration lawyer?
Where do we find one of those?


After we get married, how does the NON-EU person get to reside and work in Ireland?

You can marry in which ever country you like, that's up-to you guys as it doesn't make any difference.
Once married and moved to Ireland, you can apply for Stamp 4 EU 1 which gives you the right to live & work in Ireland.
After living here for 5 years you'll be qualified for Irish citizenship which will take another 3 years to get.

By the way... no need to get any lawyer. it'll be just waste of time & money and won't make things any quicker.

If you have any further Q's .... Try the following for more info or post reply
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categ ... ng-country
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categ ... m=eu%20fam

[archigabe]

You have to apply for a stamp4, and you will not be eligible for 'stamp4EU1'

[yankeegirl]

After living here for 5 years you'll be qualified for Irish citizenship which will take another 3 years to get.

Not if applying for Irish citizenship based on marriage to an Irish citizen. As the spouse of an Irish citizen, you will be eligible for citizenship once you have been married for at least three years AND living on the island of Ireland (this can include Northern Ireland) for 3 years. So, if you are married when you move to Ireland, you'll be able to apply for citizenship 3 years after moving here.

Just a side note, you can get married in either country, but it is much easier to marry in the US. Marrying in Ireland at a MINIMUM a 3 month process. Depending on the county in the US, the most you would have is a 3-5 day waiting period between applying for the license and actually being able to marry. NY only has a 24 hour waiting period, and places like Las Vegas have no waiting period at all.

[scrudu]

To correct asrpb, a spouse of an Irish citizen follows different rules for citizenship. A spouse of an Irish citizen must reside with their Irish citizen spouse in Ireland for 3 years prior to applying for citizenship, not 5. Processing times are the same as for other citizenship applications (2-3 years).

It doesnt matter where or how you marry, it is the residence period in Ireland that will count towards citizenship.

You will not be able to apply for via a EU1 application unless your Irish spouse and you have lived together abroad firstly, and your Irish spouse is therefore exercising his/her EU Treaty rights. You didnt say that this was the case.

Read other posts on the site for how non-EU citizens who are on the visa exempt list, who are married to Irish citizens can get residency and rights to work in Ireland (Stamp 4 residency stamp).

[jman0warS]

Ok thanks this is interesting.

Just a side note, you can get married in either country, but it is much easier to marry in the US. Marrying in Ireland at a MINIMUM a 3 month process. Depending on the county in the US, the most you would have is a 3-5 day waiting period between applying for the license and actually being able to marry. NY only has a 24 hour waiting period, and places like Las Vegas have no waiting period at all.

Yankeegirl, but surely the USA must have some stringent requirements in order for an Irish person to marry there?
I looked at marrying in the UK and it seems my Irish finance requires getting a form from the Irish government; and I would have to get either a stamp on my passport allowing me to marry overseas or get a "Approval for Marriage" form off the UK Home Office.
Both cost a few hundred £
What does an Irish person need to come to USA on a holiday visa and get married while there?

edit:
Also, what exactly is a Stamp 4 EU 1?
I find the EU 1-3 forms here:
http://www.inis.gov.ie/en/INIS/Pages/EU ... s#download
But what's "Stamp 4"?

[Ben]

But what's "Stamp 4"?

Stamp 4 (Wikipedia).

[jman0warS]

You will not be able to apply for via a EU1 application unless your Irish spouse and you have lived together abroad firstly, and your Irish spouse is therefore exercising his/her EU Treaty rights. You didnt say that this was the case.

Why do you say that i wonder?
I looked at the EU1 application form and i didn't see anything about if we've lived together abroad first.

[yankeegirl]

Yankeegirl, but surely the USA must have some stringent requirements in order for an Irish person to marry there?

It depends on where in the US. Each state has their own procedure for marrying. For example, my husband and I got married last year in Manhattan. He's Irish, I'm American. All we needed were our passports. I had also brought along my divorce papers, but all they asked for was the date it was finalized, they didn't even ask to see the decree. We applied for the marriage license in city hall and there was only a 24 hour waiting period before we could actually marry, so we got hitched the following day. Some places (like Las Vegas) do not have a waiting period at all, and others have a waiting period of a few days. Just decide where you want to marry, and look up the procedure for that area. We had looked at UK, Ireland and US, and marrying in the US was by far the easiest. It was the quickest and the cheapest. Between the marriage license and the fee for marrying us, I think it came to about $70.

As far as what you need to go over, if your partner does not intend to settle in the US after marriage, she can just come over on the visa waiver program.

Why do you say that i wonder?
I looked at the EU1 application form and i didn't see anything about if we've lived together abroad first.

The EU1 form is for family members of EU citizens (other than Irish). In short, EU citizens (and their family members) have the right to freedom of movement within the EU. That EU1 form is for family members of other EU citizens wishing to live in Ireland with their EU citizen family member.
Since you will be the family member of an Irish citizen living in Ireland, you need to apply under Irish law, not EU law. So, what you would do is come over after you are married and apply for a Stamp 4.

[ferrellk]

Since you will be the family member of an Irish citizen living in Ireland, you need to apply under Irish law, not EU law. So, what you would do is come over after you are married and apply for a Stamp 4.

Do you actually have to apply for Stamp 4 or just present your marriage certificate? How intensive is the process?

And how does marriage outside of Ireland affect marriage inside the state (say...you want to have another wedding for local family)? I figure you still have the 3 month waiting period, but does it present any other issues?

[jman0warS]

What can anybody tell me about Stamp 4?
I can't find an application online.
Is it something you get when you land and go through customs?
Is there an interview process?
The wikipedia article is rather cursory.

[walrusgumble]

to those who have been waiting for over one year -

although the department have made it clear that it is only looking at applications that they received since july 2006, it mightbe worth the €50 or so for a consultation to consider bringing court proceedings against the department for making you what for over one year for citizenship application decision.

the reason? in 2007, judge edwards heard a case known as KM v Min for Justice & Equality. the case concerned mandamus proceedings (oder forcing dept to make a decision). it was where the applicants, had been waiting 2 years for a decision in their applications for citizenship. the significance was that the judg ruled that in cases of ministerial discretionary, six months is sufficent for data gathering and another six months for the department to consider other issues and policies in each case such as constitutional stuff, meaning one year is enough for department to finally make a decision, anything less is an unfair delay. the court also found that the applicant had constitutional rights for a decision to be heard in a fair manner and without delay. more important, the judge refused to accept the department's reasons for such delay eg lack of resources and lots of applications sent in.

now, since then, the department have published on its web site the length of time an application will take - trying to cover there arses in the event of a new similar case coming (they would argue separation of powers between the judiciary and governement) to support themselves.

however, it is worth talking to a lawyer. threatening letters will be made and court proceedings could be taken.


the pro's of thisyou get a decision in your case, hopefully should you have met all requiremens you will get it.

the con's
1. because of the amount of cases in the high court, it might be up to 4-6 months before a case would be given a date for hearing. often the reasons for this is becasue of the state not filling papers on time - a good solicitor & barrister will push the court for priority.

judicial review is a two stage process, pre leave and post leave.in this type of case pre leave can be made at any time,its ex parte and the state will not be challenged by state as they will note have been notified to attend (they would have been warned of course) in a case like this it would be fairly easy to succed in getting leave for the substantial hearing

despite all of this, with in this time, the lawyers for the state will often advice the state to settle the case asap (by giving you the decision which as i said should you meet requirements, you will get citizenship. lawyers for state will not advice the state to continue challenging a case if it will likely loose -as seen in the many out of court settlements in the eu1 affairs.

2 it would be very important that you pick a lawyer who wil only bring a case if he or she is at least 90-95% confident of success. consideration should be taken between the km case and the fact that dept now state how long its gonna take to make decision, would km be upheld in your case? it should, but cant predict the judges.

the reason for this, is because if you lose, courts fees and costs of the other side may be awarded against you. lots of money. so unless the lawyer is confident dont bother.

[yankeegirl]

And how does marriage outside of Ireland affect marriage inside the state (say...you want to have another wedding for local family)? I figure you still have the 3 month waiting period, but does it present any other issues?

Ireland does not allow this. Once you're married, you can't have another wedding, not even vow renewal ceremony. However, you can arrange to have a blessing done through the church, which isn't the same but a good way to commemorate the marriage and having family involved. Since you aren't getting married, its between you and the church when you want to have something like that, there's no mandatory waiting period.

What can anybody tell me about Stamp 4?
I can't find an application online.
Is it something you get when you land and go through customs?
Is there an interview process?

I don't think there is an online application. Once you are married, you enter Ireland via visa-waiver and then apply to remain as a spouse at the Garda National Immigration Bureau (GNIB). Try doing a search through some of the other threads, a few people have posted thier experiences. Just make sure you aren't reading about the EU1 application process, that's an entirely different kettle of fish.

[angelcountry]

For an American, what would be the quickest and most painless path to go toward eventual irish citizenship?
Please note this would be through marrying an Irish citizen.
We could marry in Ireland or Beyond, which is best?
If we have a civil marriage in another country, are there any that are better options than others? Like should we marry in USA, or the UK?
Should we get an immigration lawyer?
Where do we find one of those?


After we get married, how does the NON-EU person get to reside and work in Ireland?

Walk into any Garda station and show them the ''Civil Marriage Certificate'' and tell them your question they will help you in your application they're very good in immigration thoughts.