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Non-EEA family member after Divorce

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kiwi_pat
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Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by kiwi_pat » Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:29 pm

Hi

I am hoping to get some advice on the following

I am currently on a 5 year Family residence permit expiring Sept 2017. I got married to my ex-wife (German Passport) in 2014 and separated 1 year later in 2015, we aren't divorced yet. We have a 5 year old boy who is currently attending school who has NZ and German passport, I see him 2-3 days a week as a mutual verbal agreement between ourselves. As my ex-wife cannot show that she has been self sufficient I cannot apply for an extension on my Family permit and a work permit is not possible as my role isn't on the short list.

I'm trying to find out what or if there are any other options that I can seek to remain in the UK to continue to be with my child.

Open to any feedback or recommendations anyone can provide

Thanks
Kiwi_pat

Indguru90
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Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by Indguru90 » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:18 am

kiwi_pat wrote:Hi

I am hoping to get some advice on the following

I am currently on a 5 year Family residence permit expiring Sept 2017. I got married to my ex-wife (German Passport) in 2014 and separated 1 year later in 2015, we aren't divorced yet. We have a 5 year old boy who is currently attending school who has NZ and German passport, I see him 2-3 days a week as a mutual verbal agreement between ourselves. As my ex-wife cannot show that she has been self sufficient I cannot apply for an extension on my Family permit and a work permit is not possible as my role isn't on the short list.

I'm trying to find out what or if there are any other options that I can seek to remain in the UK to continue to be with my child.

Open to any feedback or recommendations anyone can provide

Thanks
Kiwi_pat
By way of preface, just because the validity of your residence card is fixed at 5 years does not mean that you have an automatic entitlement to be in the UK for five years. The card does not give you a right to reside in the UK independent of the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016. For example, in a scenario where an EEA national is self-sufficient, and is married to a non-EEA national with one child, but none of the three have comprehensive sickness insurance, none of the three have a right to reside in the UK, and all are in principle removable. This is irrespective of the fact that a residence document may previously have been issued to any of them that is, on its face, still valid.

Now, you are close to completing five years' residence in the UK as a family member of an EEA national. As such, you would normally qualify for permanent residence. However, you mention that your wife is unable to prove self-sufficiency. May I ask what evidence is missing - sufficient funds or health insurance or both? Just FYI, there have been signals from the Home Office suggesting that the health insurance requirement may be scrapped when the new "settlement scheme" for EEA nationals and their family members becomes operative. For now, however, we have to take the law as we find it.

If you are not presently or in the near future entitled to permanent residence, you may nevertheless continue to qualify under the Immigration (EEA) Regulations 2016. In this regard, you might qualify either (a) as the father of an EEA national child or (b) on the basis of your relationship to your (current) wife.

(a) To qualify on the basis of your relationship to your child, your son first of all has to be exercising Treaty rights. Given his age, I assume he will only qualify on the basis of being self-sufficient. In either case, you will need to show that your son has sufficient resources and, crucially, either a European Health Insurance Card (EHIC - issued by an EEA state other than the UK, such as Germany) or private comprehensive health insurance.

Now, as a parent you are generally not regarded as a direct family member for the purposes of the 2016 Regulations. At most, you may qualify as an "extended family member" (EFM). If you are accepted as an EFM, that gives you full free movement rights and opens a path to permanent residence, but the Home Office has some discretion in deciding EFM applications. (I advise you to read the caseworker guidance at https://www.gov.uk/government/publicati ... -nationals.)

If you are unsuccessful on the EFM route, you might still qualify under a derivative right of residence (although this is unlikely). However, this is contingent on your child's continuing to be under the age of 18 and, crucially, does not count towards permanent residence (although you may eventually qualify for Indefinite Leave to Remain under the 10-year Long Residence rule). To qualify under the derivative head, you would need to show that you are the child's primary carer, that the child is self-sufficient, and that the child would be unable to remain in the UK if you had to leave. The last part of the test is unlikely to be satisfied in your case, because even if you had to leave, your child could continue residing with your wife, all the more so in view of your separation. There is another derivative provision, but since your wife is not a worker, it is unfortunately inapplicable.

(b) You may therefore think it might be easier to remain in the UK on the basis of your relationship to your spouse. As long as you remain married you continue to qualify as a family member, provided the marriage is legally valid and not a marriage of convenience (be prepared for some querying of this given the short time you spent together).

The problems will start if/once you are divorced, because then your (ex-)wife will cease to be a family member for the purposes of the 2016 Regulations. At most, therefore, you might qualify post-divorce on the basis of a retained right of residence. This requires, however, that you do not commence divorce proceedings before you've been married for at least three years, unless (i) you have custody of your child or (ii) you continue to have access to your child by virtue of a court order stating that this access must take place in the UK. In other words, whether you retain your residence rights will depend on the timing and/or the terms of any future divorce.

You will want to avoid having to make an application under the (domestic) Immigration Rules. At present, this is particularly difficult as your child (presumably) does not have permanent residence and is thus not a "settled person" for the Immigration Rules. Stick with EU law if you can.

kiwi_pat
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Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by kiwi_pat » Tue Aug 01, 2017 7:12 pm

Thanks for replying Indguru90.

I've found out the wife does have private health insurance from Germany and my son and me have the EHIC cards but waiting to find out the expiry date on them.

The missing evidence is not being able to show she is earning minimum wage in the way of payslips. Also she is taking government tax credits for child and housing.

What impact does this have?

Also Im unsure if this question can be asked on this forum and I will remove if so. Am I able to contact you privately?

Wise
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Germany

Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by Wise » Tue Aug 01, 2017 8:10 pm

What a very useful information you have been given before mine.

This is just an input/add to the whole issue.

1, The EHIC might expired by now and if no, then you should be fine in relying on it.

2, You can make the same mutual agreement in seeing your child to just ask her to go back to work not
necessarily more than 20hrs a week and apply for a new RC before the end of all brexit trash as you are
allowed to re apply and you have to sacrifice to support her financially while you both living in a different
homes, as long as you're married.And she will still qualify for the all benefits to support her earning too.

THE GOOD THING IS COZ OF THE CHILD INVOLVED THERE WOULDN'T BE SUSPICIOUS OF FAKE MARRIAGE.

3, I genuinely feel for you on this issue but you just need to communicate with her for the sake of your status.
Good Luck.
It is really good to help and everyone deserve to be respected in life. Good luck.

khers
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Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by khers » Wed Aug 02, 2017 10:49 am

Good Morning,

Since when dependent parents are considered Extended Family Members???

And after many years of marriage and a child I don't think they will raise the issue of marriage of convenience.

Just my humble opinion,

Best Regards,

J

kiwi_pat
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Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by kiwi_pat » Wed Aug 02, 2017 5:17 pm

Thank you for the replies everyone.

Found out we all have current EHIC cards.

I agree with Khers, we have been together since 2004 and only after being married in 2014 did this breakdown so I would say this isn't a marriage of convenience.

I did further research and have come across an Access to Child permit. Has anyone got experience of this and know based on the information I provided above if there would be any reasons for refusal, also if there is link to a caseworker document link similar to what Indguru90 sent in the first response to my post.

Indguru90
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by Indguru90 » Wed Aug 02, 2017 7:11 pm

kiwi_pat wrote:
I've found out the wife does have private health insurance from Germany and my son and me have the EHIC cards but waiting to find out the expiry date on them.
I think this has been overtaken by your later post confirming that all of you have public health coverage in Germany and hence an EHIC.
kiwi_pat wrote: The missing evidence is not being able to show she is earning minimum wage in the way of payslips. Also she is taking government tax credits for child and housing.
If your wife can qualify on the basis of self-sufficiency, you do not have to show that she is earning minimum wage. You merely have to show that she has sufficient resources to meet her essential outgoings. As long as there is some (lawfully obtained) money coming into the bank account, that is acceptable.

In the alternative, if your wife is a worker, then the whole sufficient resources and comprehensive sickness insurance requirements falls away for yourself, your child and your wife.

I'm not an expert on social security law but it is generally the case that EEA national workers have access to exactly the same in-work benefits (such as child credits) as UK nationals. Feel free to send me a pm.
Wise wrote:
1, The EHIC might expired by now and if no, then you should be fine in relying on it.
Yes. Even if your EHIC is expired, you can of course still rely on it for any past periods during which it was valid. If you no longer have your EHIC, you can get written confirmation from the Krankenkasse confirming the dates during which you were entitled to the EHIC. This will be accepted by the HO.
khers wrote:Since when dependent parents are considered Extended Family Members???
The parents are not dependants. It is the child who's the dependant in this scenario.

Article 7(1) of the Regulations define "family member" as follows:

7.—(1) In these Regulations, “family member” means, in relation to a person (“A”)—
(a) A’s spouse or civil partner;
(b) A’s direct descendants, or the direct descendants of A’s spouse or civil partner who are
either—
(i) aged under 21; or
(ii) dependants of A, or of A’s spouse or civil partner;
(c) dependent direct relatives in A’s ascending line, or in that of A’s spouse or civil partner.


Subarticle c would apply if it was kiwi_pat himself who was dependent on his child. The situation is however reversed, hence why he can only qualify as an EFM, or on the basis of a derivative or retained right of residence as set out in my detailed initial post.
khers wrote:And after many years of marriage and a child I don't think they will raise the issue of marriage of convenience.
They have been together but not married that long. Of course I'm not raising the spectre of marriage of convenience here. All I'm saying is that in divorce cases applicants should be prepared to explain their circumstances if requested by the HO.
kiwi_pat wrote:
Found out we all have current EHIC cards.
That answers the point I've raised above - remember you only need to provide the EHIC if you wish to argue that your wife is self-sufficient. If she's a worker, no need for any of you.
kiwi_pat wrote: I did further research and have come across an Access to Child permit. Has anyone got experience of this and know based on the information I provided above if there would be any reasons for refusal, also if there is link to a caseworker document link similar to what Indguru90 sent in the first response to my post.
Not exactly sure what you mean by "Access to Child permit", but it could mean one of two things:

(a) entry clearance or a residence card issued under the EEA Regulations on the basis of needing access to a child. This is covered in my previous response on the retained right of residence.

(b) a settlement visa issued under the domestic Immigration Rules (r.246). This "access to child visa" (VAF4A) was abolished from 9 July 2012. Applicants must now qualify under the stricter conditions of Appendix FM of the Rules. Under para.EX.1(cc), in order to qualify for a "Family life as a parent of a child in the UK" visa, because your child is not British or "settled" for the purposes of the Rules, he needs to have lived in the UK for seven years. In other words, you would not presently be eligible for this visa; the situation changes once your son obtains an EEA right of permanent residence which would "settle" him in the UK.
You can find the detailed Appendix FM rules under the heading "Family life as a parent of a child in the UK" here: https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... ly-members
You see now why I said in my initial post, try to avoid having to rely on the domestic rules! This is not even to mention the substantial fees charged in non-EEA cases. It's a bit of a travesty how much difficulty a Commonwealth citizen has to face whilst it's a free for all for the EEA... well, that's another issue.

My suggested course of action would be, in order of priority:

1. Try to get permanent residence for yourself and your family members first. Having the EHIC is an important part of this process if you are relying on periods of self-sufficiency.

2. Otherwise, make an extended family member application.

3. Otherwise, make a retained right of residence application on the basis your marriage (which should be granted if your marriage has subsisted for 3 years.)


If you qualify under 2 or 3 above, you will qualify for permanent residence in the future once you have completed 5 years' lawful residence under the EEA Regulations.

khers
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Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by khers » Fri Aug 04, 2017 1:43 am

Good Morning

Kiwi, I think you've got to check very well the regulations because as you describe your case, my opinion is that you have retained right of residence according to the regulation 10 (6). For that reason you fulfill the requirements of the regulation 15 (1) (page 25) that is permanent residence where the applicant has a retained right of residence. I suggest you take a look here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e-v3_0.pdf

I hope this clarify your doubts,

Best Regards,

Indguru90
Junior Member
Posts: 80
Joined: Tue Jul 25, 2017 7:26 pm

Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by Indguru90 » Fri Aug 04, 2017 5:55 am

khers wrote:Good Morning

Kiwi, I think you've got to check very well the regulations because as you describe your case, my opinion is that you have retained right of residence according to the regulation 10 (6). For that reason you fulfill the requirements of the regulation 15 (1) (page 25) that is permanent residence where the applicant has a retained right of residence. I suggest you take a look here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... e-v3_0.pdf

I hope this clarify your doubts,

Best Regards,
The applicant needs to be careful here - he does not yet have a retained right of residence as he is still married. As set out in my above posts, for now he qualifies as a direct FM and may if he can show the appropriate paperwork qualify for Perm Res before he actually needs to resort to an alternative legal base. If he does not qualify for Perm Res before his formal decree nisi/absolute is issued, his first port of call should be the EFM route or, in the alternative, retained residence.

Richard W
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England

Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by Richard W » Fri Aug 04, 2017 8:49 pm

kiwi_pat wrote:I agree with Khers, we have been together since 2004 and only after being married in 2014 did this breakdown so I would say this isn't a marriage of convenience.
Where have you two been living? If you wife has worked in the UK for five consecutive years, and you have lived in the UK all this time, she may already have permanent residence, in which case you are on track to achieve PR on your 5th anniversary.

Nimitta
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Re: Non-EEA family member after Divorce

Post by Nimitta » Sat Aug 05, 2017 10:23 pm

khers wrote:Kiwi, I think you've got to check very well the regulations because as you describe your case, my opinion is that you have retained right of residence according to the regulation 10 (6).
Not a chance. Retaining right of residence is only possible after dissolution of marriage/partnership or spouse's death none of which applies to the case. As long as they are still married there is no retaining of rights of residence to talk about because he has no independent right of residence.
Mean what you say, say what you mean

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