UK Settlement Visa - Question about wife's child

[flann]

I am helping a friend (British Passport holder, originally from Serbia) submit a Settlement Visa for his wife (they married recently in Kosovo). His wife, from Kosovo, has a 9-year-old child from a previous marriage (divorced a number of years ago, the child is in the custody of the mother). The ex-husband (father of the 9 year old girl) is in prison in Kosovo and makes no financial contribution to the child. My friend and his new wife's intention is to apply for the settlement visa only for the wife at this stage and, in a year or so, once the wife is settled in the UK, they will apply to have the child (who, in the interim, will live with the wife's parents in Kosovo) to come and settle with her my friend and his new wife.

So, my question:

1. Is failing to declare that his wife has a child in Kosovo prejudice their ability to bring the daughter to the UK subsequently? She is answering "No" to the question: "do you have any dependent children?" on the basis that they child is living with and will be cared for by the child's grandparents (the wife's parents). It is worth noting that their decision not to apply for and bring the child to the UK at this stage is purely for logistics reasons (and not wanting to uproot the child from school at this stage) - and not because of any issue with demonstrating sufficient financial means to care for this child (he has more than sufficient income etc. in that regard).

2. If this approach does not cause any problem, what application will they need to make in due course when they choose to bring the child to the UK to join them?

Thanks,

Flann

[SimonS]

I am helping a friend (British Passport holder, originally from Serbia) submit a Settlement Visa for his wife (they married recently in Kosovo). His wife, from Kosovo, has a 9-year-old child from a previous marriage (divorced a number of years ago, the child is in the custody of the mother). The ex-husband (father of the 9 year old girl) is in prison in Kosovo and makes no financial contribution to the child. My friend and his new wife's intention is to apply for the settlement visa only for the wife at this stage and, in a year or so, once the wife is settled in the UK, they will apply to have the child (who, in the interim, will live with the wife's parents in Kosovo) to come and settle with her my friend and his new wife.

So, my question:

1. Is failing to declare that his wife has a child in Kosovo prejudice their ability to bring the daughter to the UK subsequently?

Terrible idea which will ultimately lead to visa being revoked for your friends wife if a subsequent application for a dependant child is made.

She is answering "No" to the question: "do you have any dependent children?"

See above- first two words

on the basis that they child is living with and will be cared for by the child's grandparents (the wife's parents). It is worth noting that their decision not to apply for and bring the child to the UK at this stage is purely for logistics reasons (and not wanting to uproot the child from school at this stage) - and not because of any issue with demonstrating sufficient financial means to care for this child (he has more than sufficient income etc. in that regard).

That is exactly what your friend should declare on the application form. He should also make an application for the child, pay in full but defer entry. This is allowed in the rules and the only way to complete the process. Without wishing to sound harsh if your friend leaves the child behind now without an application, the only way to possibly bring her to the UK in the future would be to prove the grandparents are no longer with us and the father is still incarcerated.

2. If this approach does not cause any problem, what application will they need to make in due course when they choose to bring the child to the UK to join them?

None existent.

Thanks,

Flann

Your friend should ask his own questions!

My responses above in blue

I'm not an expert and only answer from my personal understanding of the rules. You should not take my advice as absolute. However, having applied for a spouse visa for my wife who has two dependant children not immediately travelling with her I think I stand on pretty solid ground.

[CR001]

Your friend will also have to make sure the mother has official evidence of sole responsibility and permission from the father to bring the child.

The fact that the father is in jail does not change the fact that he is the child's father and might still have parental responsibility.

immigration-for-family-members/sole-res ... 13087.html

[flann]

I am helping a friend (British Passport holder, originally from Serbia) submit a Settlement Visa for his wife (they married recently in Kosovo). His wife, from Kosovo, has a 9-year-old child from a previous marriage (divorced a number of years ago, the child is in the custody of the mother). The ex-husband (father of the 9 year old girl) is in prison in Kosovo and makes no financial contribution to the child. My friend and his new wife's intention is to apply for the settlement visa only for the wife at this stage and, in a year or so, once the wife is settled in the UK, they will apply to have the child (who, in the interim, will live with the wife's parents in Kosovo) to come and settle with her my friend and his new wife.

So, my question:

1. Is failing to declare that his wife has a child in Kosovo prejudice their ability to bring the daughter to the UK subsequently?

Terrible idea which will ultimately lead to visa being revoked for your friends wife if a subsequent application for a dependant child is made.

She is answering "No" to the question: "do you have any dependent children?"

See above- first two words

on the basis that they child is living with and will be cared for by the child's grandparents (the wife's parents). It is worth noting that their decision not to apply for and bring the child to the UK at this stage is purely for logistics reasons (and not wanting to uproot the child from school at this stage) - and not because of any issue with demonstrating sufficient financial means to care for this child (he has more than sufficient income etc. in that regard).

That is exactly what your friend should declare on the application form. He should also make an application for the child, pay in full but defer entry. This is allowed in the rules and the only way to complete the process. Without wishing to sound harsh if your friend leaves the child behind now without an application, the only way to possibly bring her to the UK in the future would be to prove the grandparents are no longer with us and the father is still incarcerated.

2. If this approach does not cause any problem, what application will they need to make in due course when they choose to bring the child to the UK to join them?

None existent.

Thanks,

Flann

Your friend should ask his own questions!

My responses above in blue

I'm not an expert and only answer from my personal understanding of the rules. You should not take my advice as absolute. However, having applied for a spouse visa for my wife who has two dependant children not immediately travelling with her I think I stand on pretty solid ground.

Thanks. re: your statement "Your friend should ask his own questions!".....

As I expect is the case with you in the past, I've been asked by a friend who doesn't have the language skills or confidence to do this himself. Like you, I've done this before for my own family but now I'm just supporting a friend who wants to make a decision on how to proceed. As it happens, my instinct is that he should declare the fact that his wife has a daughter from a previous marriage.

Thanks again Simon for taking the time to respond and I think it is a good steer.

[SimonS]

I am helping a friend (British Passport holder, originally from Serbia) submit a Settlement Visa for his wife (they married recently in Kosovo). His wife, from Kosovo, has a 9-year-old child from a previous marriage (divorced a number of years ago, the child is in the custody of the mother). The ex-husband (father of the 9 year old girl) is in prison in Kosovo and makes no financial contribution to the child. My friend and his new wife's intention is to apply for the settlement visa only for the wife at this stage and, in a year or so, once the wife is settled in the UK, they will apply to have the child (who, in the interim, will live with the wife's parents in Kosovo) to come and settle with her my friend and his new wife.

So, my question:

1. Is failing to declare that his wife has a child in Kosovo prejudice their ability to bring the daughter to the UK subsequently?

Terrible idea which will ultimately lead to visa being revoked for your friends wife if a subsequent application for a dependant child is made.

She is answering "No" to the question: "do you have any dependent children?"

See above- first two words

on the basis that they child is living with and will be cared for by the child's grandparents (the wife's parents). It is worth noting that their decision not to apply for and bring the child to the UK at this stage is purely for logistics reasons (and not wanting to uproot the child from school at this stage) - and not because of any issue with demonstrating sufficient financial means to care for this child (he has more than sufficient income etc. in that regard).

That is exactly what your friend should declare on the application form. He should also make an application for the child, pay in full but defer entry. This is allowed in the rules and the only way to complete the process. Without wishing to sound harsh if your friend leaves the child behind now without an application, the only way to possibly bring her to the UK in the future would be to prove the grandparents are no longer with us and the father is still incarcerated.

2. If this approach does not cause any problem, what application will they need to make in due course when they choose to bring the child to the UK to join them?

None existent.

Thanks,

Flann

Your friend should ask his own questions!

My responses above in blue

I'm not an expert and only answer from my personal understanding of the rules. You should not take my advice as absolute. However, having applied for a spouse visa for my wife who has two dependant children not immediately travelling with her I think I stand on pretty solid ground.

Thanks. re: your statement "Your friend should ask his own questions!".....

As I expect is the case with you in the past, I've been asked by a friend who doesn't have the language skills or confidence to do this himself. Like you, I've done this before for my own family but now I'm just supporting a friend who wants to make a decision on how to proceed. As it happens, my instinct is that he should declare the fact that his wife has a daughter from a previous marriage.

Thanks again Simon for taking the time to respond and I think it is a good steer.

Fair enough, my apologies, you are a very good friend. The world needs more people like you!

Cheers
Simon

[flann]

Thanks for the contributions so far. As I understand it, the husband has been in prison for a number of years; during which time my friends wife has been living with her daughter at her parents house. The husband has had no involvement (financial or other) with the daughter and we expect that if he was asked to formally (I don't know what form that would take) hand over full custody. Is that a useful approach? I also note that Kosovo is not on the list of countries "whose custody orders may be recognised as valid in the United Kingdom upon registration here by virtue of the Child Abduction and Custody Act, 1985".

My friend's wife was previously married between Jan 2008 and Jan 2013 (when they were divorced). Her daughter was born in Feb 2008. I'll find out how long the ex-husband has been in prison (and for what offence, in case it is relevant from a child-safely perspective).

As I say, they are confident that the ex-husband will be happy to formally relinquish any 'claim over' or responsibility for the child; if that helps the process.

Any advice on how they should proceed would be most welcome.

Thanks,

Flann.

[CR001]

Your friend will also have to make sure the mother has official evidence of sole responsibility and permission from the father to bring the child.

The fact that the father is in jail does not change the fact that he is the child's father and might still have parental responsibility.

immigration-for-family-members/sole-res ... 13087.html

Please do click on the link above which I provided already a few days ago (which you might have missed).

[flann]

thanks. Yes, I had followed that link and have read the "IMMIGRATION DIRECTORATE INSTRUCTIONS, CHAPTER 8 CHILDREN, SECTION FM 3.2" document and it is a bit unclear what form that evidence should take. In this guy's situation, they can demonstrate that the child has lived with the maternal mum (and the child's maternal grandparents) since Jan 2013 when they got divorced. The father has been in prison for the last two years on drug dealing charges (and he has a history of drug use himself). Kosovo is not on the list of countries who's Residence/Custody Orders are automatically recognised by the Home Office. Frankly, I'm not even sure if Kosovo has such a concept but I will check and, if they do, I'll recommend that sh get an official one and have it translated into English as well. But aside from an official document like that (which might have evidential weight or not in the eyes of the home office) I guess they will just have to state in writing that they, for a substantial period of time (for about 4 years, since they divorced), have had sole responsibility for the child.

I wonder whether it would be worthwhile them getting official letters of reference (e.g. from local police chief or local government) confirming that this is the case?

"A parent claiming to have had "sole responsibility" for a child must satisfactorily demonstrate that he has, usually for a substantial period of time, been the chief person exercising parental responsibility. For such an assertion to be accepted, it must be shown that he has had, and still has, the ultimate responsibility for the major decisions relating to the child's upbringing, and provides the child with the majority of the financial and emotional support he requires. It must also be shown that he has had and continues to have care and control of the child."

[flann]

A quick update. We made the application for just his wife to come to the UK but included a covering letter explaining that her daughter (from first marriage) was going to remain overseas until a future date and would them apply to join her mum.

It all went fine and the mum received her visa to come and join her husband. She arrives in a couple of days.

Thanks for everyone who responded to my post.

For information, they application was submitted on 9th November 2017 and visa was issued 24th January 2018.

cheers,

Flann