HO is practcing brexit already now !

[Do123]

I am Danish citizen living in uk since july last year. I have had full time job in same company I worked for back in DK since I have moved.

I applied first time in april for my wife whose not a eea citizen. They rejected the visa after 14 days on totally nonsense arguments like whatSapp history was only for 8 months and not from our marriage time so we were 4 months short off whatsapp history. It is because we both changed our mobiles. We have provided full skype history and everything else like marriage video/photos to prove our relationship and second argument that I didn't provide any recites of money transfer as I mentioned she is depended on me.

We have applied again 08-05 and still waiting for the answer. This time I have replied all the previous refusal points like I have given call data to prove we were in contact where we cant provide whatsapp history. HO is doing that on purpose and harassing the EEA citizens.

It feels like the appeal is the only chance right now to get a EEA family permit, but waiting time for a appeal is over an year !!!

[Indguru90]

I am Danish citizen living in uk since july last year. I have had full time job in same company I worked for back in DK since I have moved.

I applied first time in april for my wife whose not a eea citizen. They rejected the visa after 14 days on totally nonsense arguments like whatSapp history was only for 8 months and not from our marriage time so we were 4 months short off whatsapp history. It is because we both changed our mobiles. We have provided full skype history and everything else like marriage video/photos to prove our relationship and second argument that I didn't provide any recites of money transfer as I mentioned she is depended on me.

We have applied again 08-05 and still waiting for the answer. This time I have replied all the previous refusal points like I have given call data to prove we were in contact where we cant provide whatsapp history. HO is doing that on purpose and harassing the EEA citizens.

It feels like the appeal is the only chance right now to get a EEA family permit, but waiting time for a appeal is over an year !!!

Hi Do123, sorry to hear about your problems with obtaining entry clearance for your non-EEA national spouse. Are you legally married? Based on the brief summary of your circumstances, I don't think your ire against the Home Office is entirely justified.

UK entry clearance officers have never been interested in things like Skype, WhatApp and phone contact (whether that is reasonable is a different matter). Documentary evidence is required. This is, first and foremost, a marriage certificate.

In addition, the internal UKVI guidance to entry clearance officers requires "evidence that the relationship is genuine and subsisting - examples of this include evidence of cohabitation such as joint tenancy or mortgage agreements, utility bills, bank statements (this is not an exhaustive list, and there may be other documents a spouse or civil partner may provide to show they are in a genuine relationship with the EEA national – each case must be considered on its merits)."

Your Skype etc. data may tentatively fall within the "other documents..." head but it's really not what would convince an ECO of the genuineness of your marriage (not just because your Whatsapp history doesn't go back long enough). Stick to the evidence listed in the guidance and forget about Whatsapp. (I have a couple of friends with whom I whatsapp much more than with my other half - one cannot draw any conclusions from this.) Make a fresh application, forgo the appeal. Best of luck.

[tmonaghan]

I don't know if you thought about this before but providing an itemised phone bill listing the numbers of your partner can help you immensely. I would have not demonstrated the Whatsapp chat history to the HO... It's very unpredictable as you experienced the first time around... However I believe that showing on your bank account statements any money transfers you made to your other half would have helped. You can use a fluorescent stylus to highlight those transfers from your bank account and raise it up in your written statement for the HO Caseworkers for them to understand... Good luck,

[Do123]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your reply.

(UK entry clearance officers have never been interested in things like Skype, WhatApp and phone contact (whether that is reasonable is a different matter). Documentary evidence is required. This is, first and foremost, a marriage certificate)
That is not the case, they are refusing the applications on that bases and asking for whatsapp or other communication history.

I have provided all the documents you are mentioning. The problem is HO is trying to find any small reason wheather it is lack of communication or any other reason.

I have provided:
Marriage certificate translated and attested
Marriage photos and video with our private photos
my bank statements
council tax bills
Utility bills
tenancy agreement of the house
my tickets of travelling
my wage slips
full Skype history since our marriage



I have provided every document that you normally need and have applied both times through a immigration solicter !

[Indguru90]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your reply.

(UK entry clearance officers have never been interested in things like Skype, WhatApp and phone contact (whether that is reasonable is a different matter). Documentary evidence is required. This is, first and foremost, a marriage certificate)
That is not the case, they are refusing the applications on that bases and asking for whatsapp or other communication history.

I have provided all the documents you are mentioning. The problem is HO is trying to find any small reason wheather it is lack of communication or any other reason.

I have provided:
Marriage certificate translated and attested
Marriage photos and video with our private photos
my bank statements
council tax bills
Utility bills
tenancy agreement of the house
my tickets of travelling
my wage slips
full Skype history since our marriage



I have provided every document that you normally need and have applied both times through a immigration solicter !

Do123, it would help if you could post the precise wording of the Refusal of Entry Clearance notification in this thread. As a matter of law and UKVI policy, your spouse's application ought not to have been refused. Evidence such as chat and phone histories should only be requested where UKVI has discharged its burden of proof that a marriage is one of convenience - the burden is not on the applicant to disprove that (in contrast to domestic immigration law): ZZ (Afghanistan) v Home Secretary [2009] EWCA Civ 1060. Is there anything adverse in your relationship history that would have been flagged to UKVI?

Hopefully you will have better luck (if such is the word) with the second application. There is always the theoretical possibility of suing UKVI for damages for breach of statutory duty under EU law, the paperwork listed seems to be in order. I think many members of this forum have had their fair share of experience with so-called immigration solicitors. They don't always give the most helpful advice...

[Richard W]

In addition, the internal UKVI guidance to entry clearance officers requires "evidence that the relationship is genuine and subsisting - examples of this include evidence of cohabitation such as joint tenancy or mortgage agreements, utility bills, bank statements (this is not an exhaustive list, and there may be other documents a spouse or civil partner may provide to show they are in a genuine relationship with the EEA national – each case must be considered on its merits)."

But if they have never cohabited for more than a few weeks at a time, they won't have this. If they are not economic equals, then as Tmonaghan suggests, there may be evidence of bank transfers or, say, Western Union payment orders.

As a matter of law and UKVI policy, your spouse's application ought not to have been refused. Evidence such as chat and phone histories should only be requested where UKVI has discharged its burden of proof that a marriage is one of convenience - the burden is not on the applicant to disprove that (in contrast to domestic immigration law): ZZ (Afghanistan) v Home Secretary [2009] EWCA Civ 1060.

Doi23's point is that they don't seem to be following this policy.

[Indguru90]

In addition, the internal UKVI guidance to entry clearance officers requires "evidence that the relationship is genuine and subsisting - examples of this include evidence of cohabitation such as joint tenancy or mortgage agreements, utility bills, bank statements (this is not an exhaustive list, and there may be other documents a spouse or civil partner may provide to show they are in a genuine relationship with the EEA national – each case must be considered on its merits)."

But if they have never cohabited for more than a few weeks at a time, they won't have this. If they are not economic equals, then as Tmonaghan suggests, there may be evidence of bank transfers or, say, Western Union payment orders.

Sure, and this would be stronger evidence than phone records.

As a matter of law and UKVI policy, your spouse's application ought not to have been refused. Evidence such as chat and phone histories should only be requested where UKVI has discharged its burden of proof that a marriage is one of convenience - the burden is not on the applicant to disprove that (in contrast to domestic immigration law): ZZ (Afghanistan) v Home Secretary [2009] EWCA Civ 1060.

Doi23's point is that they don't seem to be following this policy.[/quote]

Yes, I agree. An appeal would take too long to sort this out, hopefully the ECO dealing with the second application is more reasonable.