Non-EU Spouse - Advice needed

[Xter27]

Dear all,

I would like to ask for some advice relating to my future non-EU spouse. I have done quite a bit of research already, however there are still many dark areas for me in which I lack knowledge. Please accept my apologies if this post becomes too long and I appreciate all your help in advance.

Introduction

Me
I am a Lithuanian national residing in the UK for nearly 8 years. Currently I am on a placement year at university, hence I am both a student and an employee who has been exercising treaty rights for the last 3 months. Therefore, I think I should be able to successfully apply for the EEA (QP). Unfortunately, I am not eligible for the EEA (PR) due to not having WRS/CSI when it was required. I have been in a relationship with my Vietnamese girlfriend for almost 2 years whom I had met at the university we both studied in.

GF
Vietnamese national currently residing in Vietnam. She has spent 6 years in total living in the UK on a Tier 4 visa and has visited me in the UK on a visitor's visa since.

Situation

We have both visited each other in both of our countries a few times and hence have a handful of proof of our relationship being genuine. As a result, we are thinking of taking things one step further and getting married in order to be able to live together in the UK. However, I am not sure where to begin, hence I would like to ask for some guidance regarding the next steps.

Questions

Would it be the right thing to do for her if she applied for a visitor's visa in order to get married in the UK or is it the fiance visa that she would need to apply for?

I believe the next step would be to apply for the EEA (FM). Am I correct in thinking that my then spouse would be eligible to work in the UK after the date of the CoA? Also, how long does the EEA (FM) allow the person to reside in the UK for (I believe it is 6 months initially)?

If the EEA (FM) is valid for 6 months only, what would be the next step in securing future residence permit? Would there be any obstacles in achieving this given that I do not have PR?

Lastly, after being issued with the EEA (FM), would my then spouse be subject to "Home" tuition fees? According to UKCISA, there is a special provision which we would meet the requirements for, suggesting "Home" fees for the spouse, but I am not sure if this is right..

These are all the questions I can think of for now. I would greatly appreciate any advice that you may have to share.

Thank you in advance.

[Xter27]

bump

[rahmsye]

Firstly you can apply for eea Family permit to bring your future wife over to the UK, and secondly you do need a COA to work if she is married to you as a eea citizen she has every right to work in the UK from day one once she is given a Family Permit.

That is what my wife did.

The only thing is that some employer wont hire her with out a COA as they can sometimes not be aware of the actual legislation. Also on a COA there has been a trend by the Home Office to not confirm her right to work that is not the same is denying her right to work they cannot do that so if you can prove that she is allowed to work in other wise such as emails from Home Office confirming that there is no legislation or policy barring her from working I am sure they will take that,

[Richard W]

Firstly you can apply for eea Family permit to bring your future wife over to the UK,...

Qualified persons who are not permanent residents are not allowed a visa or similar to bring fiancées in. That privilege was withdrawn several years ago.

The OP and his girlfriend cannot marry in the UK by legal means. They would have to marry elsewhere, e.g. Denmark if Lithuania and Vietnam are both unsuitable.

[aarshad01]

Firstly you can apply for eea Family permit to bring your future wife over to the UK,...

Qualified persons who are not permanent residents are not allowed a visa or similar to bring fiancées in. That privilege was withdrawn several years ago.

The OP and his girlfriend cannot marry in the UK by legal means. They would have to marry elsewhere, e.g. Denmark if Lithuania and Vietnam are both unsuitable.

Richard do you have any Knowledge about EEA family Permit for Direct family members ?

[CR001]

Richard do you have any Knowledge about EEA family Permit for Direct family members ?

Can you please refrain from tagging your questions onto other members topics. It is considered rude and is unfair to the OP.

[aarshad01]

Richard do you have any Knowledge about EEA family Permit for Direct family members ?

Can you please refrain from tagging your questions onto other members topics. It is considered rude and is unfair to the OP.

i think youre following me, instead of answering my query, youre more interested what im doing..is it your job in this group ?

[Xter27]

Dear everyone, thank you for the replies, however my questions still remain the same.

Firstly you can apply for eea Family permit to bring your future wife over to the UK[...]

Rahmsye, thanks for replying. I would like to both marry and apply for the permit from within the UK simply because marrying in Vietnam would take months and it'd take even more time to get all the papers officially stamped and translated into English for HO submission. The marriage process would not take as long in Lithuania, but the latter part would still have to be done.

Therefore, I am not sure which application we would have to use since I think you are meant to apply for the EEA (FM) from outside the UK?

Qualified persons who are not permanent residents are not allowed a visa or similar to bring fiancées in.

The OP and his girlfriend cannot marry in the UK by legal means. They would have to marry elsewhere, e.g. Denmark if Lithuania and Vietnam are both unsuitable.

Thanks for your input Richard W. I understand that marrying a non-eea on his/her visitor visa would violate its purpose as well as settling in the UK followed by a marriage visitor's visa would do the same. However, would this "breach" of immigration law have any consequences in the future?

[Casa]

Richard do you have any Knowledge about EEA family Permit for Direct family members ?

Can you please refrain from tagging your questions onto other members topics. It is considered rude and is unfair to the OP.

i think youre following me, instead of answering my query, youre more interested what im doing..is it your job in this group ?

Moderators ensure the Board rules are adhered to and yes, it is CR001's 'job' (unpaid) to ask members not to highjack another member's thread. This one belongs to Xter27. Please post your questions in your own topic.

[wegiwegi]

Richard do you have any Knowledge about EEA family Permit for Direct family members ?

At the moment the OP fiancee is not a direct family member, she will be once married not before.

[aarshad01]

Richard do you have any Knowledge about EEA family Permit for Direct family members ?

At the moment the OP fiancee is not a direct family member, she will be once married not before.

Bro basically i was asking Richard for my own case which i would be applying soon for my mother as a direct family member

[aarshad01]

Richard do you have any Knowledge about EEA family Permit for Direct family members ?

Can you please refrain from tagging your questions onto other members topics. It is considered rude and is unfair to the OP.

i think youre following me, instead of answering my query, youre more interested what im doing..is it your job in this group ?

Moderators ensure the Board rules are adhered to and yes, it is CR001's 'job' (unpaid) to ask members not to highjack another member's thread. This one belongs to Xter27. Please post your questions in your own topic.

thank you unpaid CR001 for an advice i will keep in mind next time

[Richard W]

I understand that marrying a non-eea on his/her visitor visa would violate its purpose as well as settling in the UK followed by a marriage visitor's visa would do the same. However, would this "breach" of immigration law have any consequences in the future?

I can see a number of possible consequences, though I think some of then are quite unlikely:

1) A delay on naturalising as British due to bad character; this is more likely for your girlfriend than for you.

2) When you give notice of marriage, her stay in the UK might be curtailed. I have no examples of this. Others may.

3) If this discussion could be used as evidence (how well is your true identity hidden?), you might conceivably by expelled from the UK under Schedule 1 Paragraph 6. The fraud would be in obtaining a visitor's visa while intending to marry. The fraud is a bit indirect, and I think GCHQ has better things to do than to monitor this website, but one never knows. The Home Office certainly believes that marrying one's illegal immigrant lover to allow him to stay in the UK merits expulsion via the EEA Regulations.

[Xter27]

2) When you give notice of marriage, her stay in the UK might be curtailed. I have no examples of this. Others may.

Thanks for the reply once again Richard. I'm glad to know about this as a possibility, though I've seen quite a few posts in this forum where an eea successfully marries a non-eea visitor with the HO giving a green light for it. It would be interesting to know if a student visa has the same restriction, since I've been told by my GF that a few of her friends got married (eea to non-eea) whilst being in the UK as students.

3) If this discussion could be used as evidence (how well is your true identity hidden?), you might conceivably by expelled from the UK under Schedule 1 Paragraph 6. The fraud would be in obtaining a visitor's visa while intending to marry. The fraud is a bit indirect, and I think GCHQ has better things to do than to monitor this website, but one never knows. The Home Office certainly believes that marrying one's illegal immigrant lover to allow him to stay in the UK merits expulsion via the EEA Regulations.

This sounds scary. I might consider what type of information I am going to share next Thank you for the link though, good to know this.

[Xter27]

After having done some more reading, it seems like the most sensible option is for my girlfriend to obtain a marriage visitor's visa in order to marry in the UK in the future.

Then, instead of upsetting the HO and applying for an RC from within the UK, I suppose she would have to apply for the EEA (FM) from outside the UK? Now I am aware this could take a long time and we may not have it when the time comes. So, my question is - would she need the EEA (FM) to re-enter the UK or would having me next to her and all the relevant documents (such as marriage certificate, etc.) be enough?

[Richard W]

After having done some more reading, it seems like the most sensible option is for my girlfriend to obtain a marriage visitor's visa in order to marry in the UK in the future.

It would probably be refused. How are you going to persuade them of where you are going to live after the marriage?

Then, instead of upsetting the HO and applying for an RC from within the UK, I suppose she would have to apply for the EEA (FM) from outside the UK?

You mean family permit. Residence cards can only be applied for from within the UK.

Now I am aware this could take a long time and we may not have it when the time comes. So, my question is - would she need the EEA (FM) to re-enter the UK or would having me next to her and all the relevant documents (such as marriage certificate, etc.) be enough?

The latter should be enough (with one caveat) if you can get to the UK border.

The caveat is that I strongly suspect that you intend to marry her so that immigration laws will allow you to live together. Under the Home Office interpretation of EEA rules, that appears to make it a marriage of convenience! While that is not a problem under the Immigration Rules, they don't allow you to bring her to the UK until you acquire settled status.

[Xter27]

Please correct me if I am wrong.

As far as I understand, in order to legally marry a non-EU person in the UK and settle I would have to be a PR and the non-EU partner would have to initially come to the UK on a family visa as a fiancee?

If we married elsewhere, would I, as a QP, be able to bring my then wife over the the UK with a family permit or would I need a PR status to do that?

[Richard W]

As far as I understand, in order to legally marry a non-EU person in the UK and settle I would have to be a PR and the non-EU partner would have to initially come to the UK on a family visa as a fiancee?

Unless the non-EU partner qualified under some other route, yes. I believe, for example, that a tier 2 visa would also be acceptable - but I stand to be corrected.

If we married elsewhere, would I, as a QP, be able to bring my then wife over the the UK with a family permit or would I need a PR status to do that?

Being a qualified person can be enough. You could, for example, legitimately get a Schengen visa for a honeymoon in Paris and take the Eurostar to London, without obtaining a family permit. Similarly, you could marry in Denmark on a Schengen visa and take the train back to London.

[Xter27]

Being a qualified person can be enough. You could, for example, legitimately get a Schengen visa for a honeymoon in Paris and take the Eurostar to London, without obtaining a family permit. Similarly, you could marry in Denmark on a Schengen visa and take the train back to London.

Thanks again Richard, I really appreciate your help. I suppose I would have to be taking that train with the marriage certificate and other relevant documents already translated into English, right?

Does anyone know if a non-EU partner would be eligible for home fees and perhaps student finance (tuition fees) provided that we meet the requirements as detailed in Category 3 and Special Provision 1) and 2)?
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... fee-status

[Richard W]

I suppose I would have to be taking that train with the marriage certificate and other relevant documents already translated into English, right?

Apart form the fact that a marriage certificate from an EU country does not need to be translated, yes. However, it might be useful to get a translation as that concession may be dropped after exit from the EU.

[Wanderer]

Being a qualified person can be enough. You could, for example, legitimately get a Schengen visa for a honeymoon in Paris and take the Eurostar to London, without obtaining a family permit. Similarly, you could marry in Denmark on a Schengen visa and take the train back to London.

Thanks again Richard, I really appreciate your help. I suppose I would have to be taking that train with the marriage certificate and other relevant documents already translated into English, right?

Does anyone know if a non-EU partner would be eligible for home fees and perhaps student finance (tuition fees) provided that we meet the requirements as detailed in Category 3 and Special Provision 1) and 2)?
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... fee-status

Think you need three years residency on EEA rules before qualifying for home fees.

[Ernas]

Hi all,
I read all the comment regarding these topic but i didnt understand what a COA is ?

[CR001]

Hi all,
I read all the comment regarding these topic but i didnt understand what a COA is ?

COA = Certificate of Application.

[Xter27]

Think you need three years residency on EEA rules before qualifying for home fees.

I am not too sure about that, because

"Special Provision for people studying on courses which started on or after 1 September 2011

You do not have to meet the Category 3 (b) or (c) criteria (above) if you are studying on a course which started on or after the 1 September 2011 and:

2) your relevant family member has been ordinarily resident in the EEA and/or Switzerland and/or the overseas territories for the three years before the 'first day of the first academic year of the course' that you are studying."

So far, I've lived here for nearly 8 years.

Ref.: https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... fee-status Category 3

[TalitaZ]

Being a qualified person can be enough. You could, for example, legitimately get a Schengen visa for a honeymoon in Paris and take the Eurostar to London, without obtaining a family permit. Similarly, you could marry in Denmark on a Schengen visa and take the train back to London.

Thanks again Richard, I really appreciate your help. I suppose I would have to be taking that train with the marriage certificate and other relevant documents already translated into English, right?

Does anyone know if a non-EU partner would be eligible for home fees and perhaps student finance (tuition fees) provided that we meet the requirements as detailed in Category 3 and Special Provision 1) and 2)?
https://www.ukcisa.org.uk/Information-- ... fee-status

I got married in Denmark on a Schengen visa. You will get the marriage certificate immediately and they can send you a second one with an Apostille stamp about 2 weeks later. We used the non-Apostille one for our EEA Family permit application straight away, no translation required.