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WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

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hassman
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WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:08 am

Can anyone help me....Please

My wife came here on a 6 month visitors visa with my British daughter on 8/4/16, she became pregnant and we decided to apply for discretionary Leave to Remain, under the ECHR claim at the end of her 6 month visa 5 months later she has had the baby, so now we have two little girls, who are both British, wife suffers from severe post natal depression, and is under medication and now we have received the refusal letter, decision made on 4/10/17 letter sent direct to solicitor who date stamped it as received on 12/10/17 we received it on 13/10/17 which only gives us 3 working days to submit an appeal!! or else both my children and my wife have to leave the country!

we cant afford the cost of the immigration lawyers, do I have time to submit the appeal application?
Am I able to represent my wife in the appeal court?
do we stand a chance under human rights,

daughters 3 years old and other 8 months old.

please advise

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Casa » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:20 am

Can you post the reason given in the refusal notice, omitting any personal details?

Have the NHS treatment relating to the birth and your wife's ongoing medical treatment been invoiced and paid?
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:44 am

NHS Treatment has been invoiced but not paid yet

Im not sure how to attached the refusal letter to this message
Last edited by hassman on Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:53 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Casa » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:52 am

hassman wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:44 am
NHS Treatment has been invoiced but not paid yet
It would be wise to pay it, as non-payment of any NHS invoice over £500 is now an additional reason to refuse an application.

Can you post the refusal wording?
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:57 am

there is no mention on the refusal letter regarding any out standing NHS payments.

Please advise on how I can attached the refusal letter, many thanks

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 11:46 am

Casa wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:52 am
hassman wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 10:44 am
NHS Treatment has been invoiced but not paid yet
It would be wise to pay it, as non-payment of any NHS invoice over £500 is now an additional reason to refuse an application.

Can you post the refusal wording?
On 10 September 2016 you made human rights claim in an application for leave to remain in the UK on the basis of a family life with your partner and your two children.

Your application has been considered under those rules and with reference to article 8 of the European convention on human rights. The relevant immigration rules can be viewed on WW.guv.uk/guidance/immigration – rules.

The decision takes into account as a primary consideration for best interest of any relevant child in line with the secretary of state duty under section 55 of the borders citizenship and immigration act 2009.

Consideration

Immigration history
You entered the UK on 4 April 2016 with entry clearance as a visitor valid from 22 March 2016 until 22 September 2016.

Family life

You have told us that you are in a relationship in the UK with your partner who is named above as you are eligible to apply as a partner on the appendix FM we have considered your claim under the 10 year route and not the parent route.

We have considered your application under paragraph Are – LTRP .1 .1. ( a), (b) and (d) of appendix FM.
However, you do not qualify for leave to remain under the 10 year party room for the following reasons.

Suitability

Under paragraph R – LTRP .1 .1. (d)(i) Your application does not fall for refusal on the grounds of suitability under section S – LTR of appendix FM.

Eligibility

Under paragraph R – LTRP 1.1. (d) (ii) You do not meet all of the eligibility requirements of section E – LTRP of appendix FM for the following reasons;

Eligibility relationship requirement

You meet the eligibility relationship requirement paragraphs E – LTRP .1 .1 to 1.12.

Eligibility immigration status requirement

You do not meet the eligibility immigration status requirement paragraphs E – LTRP .2 .1 to 2.2 because when you submitted your application you were in the UK as a visitor.

EX .1. Requirement

We have considered whether you are exempt from meeting certain eligibility requirements under section are – LTRP of appendix FM because paragraph EX .1 applies
We have carefully considered whether paragraph EX .1 of appendix FM applies to your application and therefore whether you meet the requirements of paragraph R – LTRP .1 .1 (d) (iii) of appendix FM.

It is accepted that you have a qualifying relationship contained within the X .1 and therefore meet the requirement of art – LTRP .1 .1. (d) (iii)

Private life

We have considered your application under private life rules under paragraph 276ADE (1) in part of seven of the immigration rules. However you do not qualify for leave to remain under the ten-year private life through for the following reasons.

Suitability

Your application does not fall for refusal on grounds of suitability in section S – LTR of appendix FM under paragraph 276ADE (1) (i) of the immigration rules.

Eligibility

All statements below relate to your age at the date of Application.

From the information you have provided, it is noted that you are national of Morocco and you entered the UK on 4 April 2016.

You have therefore lived in the UK for five months and is not excepted that you have lived continuously in the UK for at least 20 years. Consequently you Failed to meet the requirements of paragraph 276ADE (1) (iii) of the immigration rules.

You are over the age of 18. Consequently he failed to meet the requirements of paragraph 276 A.D E(1)(iv) of the immigration rules.

You are not aged between 18 and under 25 years old. Consequently failed to meet the requirements of paragraph 276ADE(1) (v) of the immigration rules.

In order to meet the requirements of paragraph 276ADE (1) (vi). An applicant must show that they are aged 18 or above and that they would be very significant obstacles to their integration into the country to which they would have to go if required to leave the UK. It is not accepted that there would be very significant obstacles to your integration into Morocco, if you were required to leave the UK, because you resided in Morocco up to the age of 28, which includes your childhood, formative years and a significant portion of your adult life. It is accepted that you have retained knowledge of the life, language and culture, and would not face significant obstacles into integrating into life in Morocco once more.

Consequently you failed to meet the requirements of paragraph 276ADE (1)(vi) of the immigration rules.

Exceptional circumstances

We have considered under paragraph GEN .3 .2 of appendix FM as applicable, whether there are exceptional circumstances in your case which would render refusal breach of article 8 of the ECH are because it would result in and justifiably harsh consequences for you, your partner, a relevant child or another family member. In doing so we have taken into account under paragraph GEN 3.3 of appendix FM, the best interest of any relevant child as a primary consideration.

You have provided no information or evidence to establish that there are any exceptional circumstances in your case.

In light of the above, your application is refused under paragraph D – LTRP 1.3 with reference to paragraph R– LTRP 1.1 (d) (ii) Of appendix FM, and under paragraph 276CE with reference to paragraph 276ADE (1) (iii), (iv), (v) and (vi) of the immigration rules. Accordingly, you do not qualify for leave to remain under the ten-year partner root of appendix FM or the ten-year private life route of part seven of the immigration rules.

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Wanderer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:05 pm

This is exactly why the non-switching rule was instigated for visitors.
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Casa » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:11 pm

Assuming you clear the NHS bill before submitting another application, it would be simpler for your wife to comply with the Immigration Rules by returning to Morocco and applying for a Spouse Settlement visa from there.

I appreciate that she is currently unwell, but in any appeal the HO is likely to take the view that treatment would be available in her home country. Realistically, how long can you afford to meet the ongoing medical bills while you fight the refusal? This could drag on for years. :idea:
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 1:56 pm

we have considered this, but she would not be able to cope with this illness as well as look after the children by herself.
I am concerned for her safety as well as the children, on her own, at the moment as she is with me, I am able with other members of her family to provide support.

in addition, we are concerned for your eldest daughter at 3 years old she is showing signs of ADHD, which we currently investigating.

The separation factor is overwhelming harsh for all of us, and the effects of this separation may well escalate into mental instability for my wife and the children.

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Casa » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:04 pm

Are there no family in Morocco? The HO may be of the opinion that you could all settle together in Morocco.
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:27 pm

Casa wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:04 pm
Are there no family in Morocco? The HO may be of the opinion that you could all settle together in Morocco.
The family in morocco are distant and would provide no support whatsoever, in addition I would find it very, very hard to integrate as I have lived here all my life, so that possibility is out of the question.

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Wanderer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 2:27 pm

You can't ride rough-shod over the immigration rules we've all had to abide by and expect the red carpet treatment when it suites.

Apply from home, do it properly, nothing here is insurmountable, at save your family from years of insecurity, appeals, reviews is certainly gonna cause more stress over a longer period than doing the right thing.
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:12 pm

I appreciate you non biased view and advise, and in the real world your suggestions a very plausible, however when considering the facts, and I our current situation, with a view to remove this individual, who has no need to be supported by the state, as we are fully sustainable, and poses no risk to society in any way, with exception to the separation factor of the children from their mother/father in any event, poses significant risks to British children, who the state owes them a duty of care under section 55 of the boarders act, and the right to family life, under the ECHR, with respect to an individual who is under medical constraints as well as the risks posed to the British children in their care with out the support of the father, in this crucial time, is significant factor which takes precedence in this situation.
I want to take the easy route ...yes ! but in doing so, we are opening significant risks to both the children and the mother given the current circumstance which are exceptional. The risk assessment carried out against returning to morocco or appealing against a wrong decision in the eyes of the law are evidently clear.

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Wanderer » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:48 pm

hassman wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:12 pm
I appreciate you non biased view and advise, and in the real world your suggestions a very plausible, however when considering the facts, and I our current situation, with a view to remove this individual, who has no need to be supported by the state, as we are fully sustainable, and poses no risk to society in any way, with exception to the separation factor of the children from their mother/father in any event, poses significant risks to British children, who the state owes them a duty of care under section 55 of the boarders act, and the right to family life, under the ECHR, with respect to an individual who is under medical constraints as well as the risks posed to the British children in their care with out the support of the father, in this crucial time, is significant factor which takes precedence in this situation.
I want to take the easy route ...yes ! but in doing so, we are opening significant risks to both the children and the mother given the current circumstance which are exceptional. The risk assessment carried out against returning to morocco or appealing against a wrong decision in the eyes of the law are evidently clear.
Your right to family life is not being impinged, you have options, you don't make the rules, the UKVI does, you can't break the rules and then be let off because you feel they don't apply to your case.
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Casa » Sun Oct 15, 2017 3:49 pm

Did you submit any supporting medical evidence in your wife's application?
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:16 pm

At the time of application, my wife was pregnant, submission was 09/2016, she gave birth on valentines day 2017, a couple of months later she started showing signs of Postnatal depression, and was found under a bridge by a member of public collapsed she was take to hospital by ambulance, the diagnoses was made following various doctors appointments, and various ambulance call outs to collapsing due to stress & psychosis, so no formal notification was given to home office around this issue, as we didn't realise the significance of the attachment to her application however hospital records go back a while with all the necessary evidence.
To be totally honest and transparent to you guys, she is really sick, I would rather she went back and applied from morocco, but she is a risk to herself and the kids if she is placed in a position without any support what's so ever.

I would rather do without all this headache, and just apply from morocco, but I'm really worried about her and the kids is she returns, that's the honest truth here.

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by CR001 » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:27 pm

Out of interest, why did she not apply for a spouse visa intiallly instead of a visitor visa??
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:42 pm

CR001 wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 4:27 pm
Out of interest, why did she not apply for a spouse visa intiallly instead of a visitor visa??
Initially she didn't want to come to the UK, I persuaded her, so I suggested she comes over for a visit to see if she like it here as well as to bring over my British daughter to visit me as I had major work commitments and spend some quality family time together, before she decided whether or not to apply for spousal visa however after a time here she didn't feel at home here, and wanted to go back, because she was not accustomed to western life, the circumstances changed when we found out she was pregnant, and I didn't want her going through the child birth on her own in Morocco, so I discussed the options with immigration solicitors and they said she would allowed to stay. so we took the option to apply for FLR rest is history.

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Obie » Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:41 pm

I think you should file in an appeal. A refusal of that sort is usually overturned on appeal.

If proper consideration is given to a case outside the rule, it can never be proportionate to refuse settlement to the mother of a British Child because they entered the UK with a visitor's visa.
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:35 pm

Obie wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 7:41 pm
I think you should file in an appeal. A refusal of that sort is usually overturned on appeal.

If proper consideration is given to a case outside the rule, it can never be proportionate to refuse settlement to the mother of a British Child because they entered the UK with a visitor's visa.
Obie, the issue I have is that, I have been let down by my immigration lawyer, who has taken £2000, of me for an application, of which he never even wrote a covering letter fight the case , but just completed the application form. I on the other hand wrote a statement in support of my wife's application, which he thought was enough, and suggested that a further supporting letter from the lawyer will only aggravate the decision by the caseworker.

The refusal letter was made on 4th October, the solicitor didn't send it to me until 13th October and in his letter to me he said I have 12 days to lodge an appeal??? when I have only 14 days from the date of the decision that was made. which means I have to lodge an appeal by 18th October ...which is in 3 days time! and I'm not even ready!!

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Obie » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:53 pm

Sorry to hear of the let down. Unfortunately sometime it is hard to distinguish who is more a a nemesis to migrant, whether it is the Home Office or rogue lawyers.

If the letter is dated the 4th October, then that is not the time you deadline for appeal start to counts, as that is not the date you received it. The proper date state from when it was received.

You have to file the appeal, or your wife will encounter many difficulties going forward.

It is difficult to see, based on the law and policies, how your wife's appeal may fail, if the lawyer handles it properly.
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:44 pm

Obie wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:53 pm
Sorry to hear of the let down. Unfortunately sometime it is hard to distinguish who is more a a nemesis to migrant, whether it is the Home Office or rogue lawyers.

If the letter is dated the 4th October, then that is not the time you deadline for appeal start to counts, as that is not the date you received it. The proper date state from when it was received.

You have to file the appeal, or your wife will encounter many difficulties going forward.

It is difficult to see, based on the law and policies, how your wife's appeal may fail, if the lawyer handles it properly.
Thank you for your advices, its giving me confidence, but I am really thinking of avoiding lawyers and attempting to represent my wife myself. I don't have the knowledge of the law as such, but what I do have is the facts, and the truth, and if I am able to show the fact in a form of evidence be open and transparent, regarding the situation, then I am certain that the appeal judge will see that, and base his decision on the evidence???

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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by Obie » Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:55 pm

The situation is that the refusal is correct within the framework of the rule. Home Office are correct about that.

My position, is that there should be consideration outside the rules, and that is why it is slightly complex.

It is a slightly complex area of law.
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Re: WIfe's DLR refused! HELP!

Post by hassman » Mon Oct 16, 2017 10:53 pm

Obie wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 9:55 pm
The situation is that the refusal is correct within the framework of the rule. Home Office are correct about that.

My position, is that there should be consideration outside the rules, and that is why it is slightly complex.

It is a slightly complex area of law.
we have appeal against the refusal today on the following grounds;

1. The Respondent has not taken consideration to the fact that 2 British citizen children have been born to the family. It is unreasonable that the Respondent could have concluded that the children should return to Morocco with the Appellant their mother.

2. The Respondent has failed to take into consideration the principles of Ruiz Zambrano case (C34/90)

3. The refusal also contravenes the Appellant's and the children's Article 8 rights to be in the UK.

let me know your thoughts ....

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