EEA2 / FM-EFM Discussion thread

[raz2]

Hi everyone.
App submitted 10 April 2017
Fee deducted 13th April 2017

Since then i haven't received anything from HO waiting for Biometric from more then 6 weeks.
Background Facts:
Re Applied Residence card EFM , previously i had i applied in March 2015, which was refused and i appealed, my version was accepted from FTT (13/09/2016) unfortunately the Sala Case reverse FTT decision( no jurisdiction to here) in the favour of HO later on UTT. i seek to permission from UTT which is recently refused, now i plan to seek permission from CA.

My two case is going on same time,is the HO deliberately not looking on my new Re Application?
Are they waiting the outcomes of my Appealed, or they have on eye for my upcoming response of follow up my appeal.

So worried why they not reply my new application, no Biometric letter, a pin drop silence towards.

could you please guide me about possible outcome and what i need to do now?
Looking forward.

[321panchetta]

His @raz2 hope you are well. Is there any update regarding your application or appeal?

I know if there's any you would have posted but sometimes it omitts our mind.....

[Pattysmith]

For those lurkers who are trawling these forums in search of recent practical guidance for non-EEA applicants, here are a few things I learned during the application process. I applied for a residence card as an extended family member (unmarried partner) of an EEA national having cohabited for many years.

1. The process is slow. The six month timeframe for making a decision, although mandatory, is treated by the Home Office as a service standard. You should not expect your application to be decided any sooner than six months from the date they received your application. You can determine the date of receipt by sending your documents by special delivery and tracking delivery on the Royal Mail website. It's not possible to speak to anyone about the progress of your application until the six month timeframe has expired. (The people who answer calls to the hotline do not have access to personal information and will not initiate a callback to you from a case manager until the six months has expired.)
2. It is possible to have your passport returned to you and to travel outside the UK/EU while your application is being considered. They do not need to retain your passport to determine your application. The residence card itself is a physical biometric card.
3. If you have a family permit that has not expired, travelling is easy. You should use the EU lane when returning to the UK and you don't need to complete an arrival card.
4. If your family permit expires during the application process, and you leave the UK, expect to encounter difficulties upon re-entering the UK when you show your passport (and expired family permit) to the border official. A certificate of application with work rights is not enough to be waved through. You need to complete an arrival card. You may be detained for 20-30 minutes while the records pertaining to your application are reviewed. You may be asked to explain why your travel was "urgent" or otherwise involved exceptional circumstances. It is not a pleasant experience, and for EFMs, admission is ultimately discretionary. If you have the time and the money to do so, the easiest way to avoid these difficulties is to apply for (another) family permit while you are outside the UK, and pay for priority service (generally about five working days).
5. Some border officials do not know the current policy and practice of the Home Office. For example, on two occasions, I was told by different border officials that the return of my passport to me by the Home Office meant that my application had probably been cancelled. They had no knowledge of (or any interest in learning about) the return of documents procedure. On a third occasion, I was told that the processing of my application had been suspended upon my passport being returned to me, and that I needed to re-submit my passport to the Home Office before my application could be determined. All of that advice was wrong. I didn't need to do anything.

Obviously none of the above takes into account your personal circumstances or the merits of your own application. YMMV. Good luck.

Hi there,

Realise this message is a bit late but we've been advised by UKVI that my unmarried partner (he is non-eea applying for residence card, has valid family permit expiring 10 Dec, I am Irish national) is unable to request his passport back before a decision is made. Can you please confirm how you know you're able to make the request? Timeline is below so we know that we cannot request the documents back until we get at least biometric and/or CoA, but we have urgent December travel So must be able to get passports back before then.

Help gratefully appreciated!

Application received by HO: 1/09/2017
Payment taken: 5/09/2017
Still waiting for biom letter etc

Thanks!

[chika]

For those lurkers who are trawling these forums in search of recent practical guidance for non-EEA applicants, here are a few things I learned during the application process. I applied for a residence card as an extended family member (unmarried partner) of an EEA national having cohabited for many years.

1. The process is slow. The six month timeframe for making a decision, although mandatory, is treated by the Home Office as a service standard. You should not expect your application to be decided any sooner than six months from the date they received your application. You can determine the date of receipt by sending your documents by special delivery and tracking delivery on the Royal Mail website. It's not possible to speak to anyone about the progress of your application until the six month timeframe has expired. (The people who answer calls to the hotline do not have access to personal information and will not initiate a callback to you from a case manager until the six months has expired.)
2. It is possible to have your passport returned to you and to travel outside the UK/EU while your application is being considered. They do not need to retain your passport to determine your application. The residence card itself is a physical biometric card.
3. If you have a family permit that has not expired, travelling is easy. You should use the EU lane when returning to the UK and you don't need to complete an arrival card.
4. If your family permit expires during the application process, and you leave the UK, expect to encounter difficulties upon re-entering the UK when you show your passport (and expired family permit) to the border official. A certificate of application with work rights is not enough to be waved through. You need to complete an arrival card. You may be detained for 20-30 minutes while the records pertaining to your application are reviewed. You may be asked to explain why your travel was "urgent" or otherwise involved exceptional circumstances. It is not a pleasant experience, and for EFMs, admission is ultimately discretionary. If you have the time and the money to do so, the easiest way to avoid these difficulties is to apply for (another) family permit while you are outside the UK, and pay for priority service (generally about five working days).
5. Some border officials do not know the current policy and practice of the Home Office. For example, on two occasions, I was told by different border officials that the return of my passport to me by the Home Office meant that my application had probably been cancelled. They had no knowledge of (or any interest in learning about) the return of documents procedure. On a third occasion, I was told that the processing of my application had been suspended upon my passport being returned to me, and that I needed to re-submit my passport to the Home Office before my application could be determined. All of that advice was wrong. I didn't need to do anything.

Obviously none of the above takes into account your personal circumstances or the merits of your own application. YMMV. Good luck.

Hi there,

Realise this message is a bit late but we've been advised by UKVI that my unmarried partner (he is non-eea applying for residence card, has valid family permit expiring 10 Dec, I am Irish national) is unable to request his passport back before a decision is made. Can you please confirm how you know you're able to make the request? Timeline is below so we know that we cannot request the documents back until we get at least biometric and/or CoA, but we have urgent December travel So must be able to get passports back before then.

Help gratefully appreciated!

Application received by HO: 1/09/2017
Payment taken: 5/09/2017
Still waiting for biom letter etc

Thanks!

Hi,

I am in similar situation. We applied for my (non eea) parents EEA2 5yrs permit and we urgently need to travel by end of November (Only one and half month left!), therefore, require our docs to be returned through online return service.

I read some contradictory messages I.e some say you could only request doc after biometric has been taken, some people have received their passports without even asking for it and biometric and some people are saying that they can just any time after 10 working days of applying.

It has been more than 10 working days but we have yet to receive an acknowledgement email or biometric letter. (See timeline below)

Could anyone advise what is the real situation? And what is the best way of getting passports back before End of Nov?

Applications submitted- 19th Sep
Application Received - 20th Sep
Payment Taken - 21st Sep
Email received - ???
Biometric- ???


Any advise is appreciated.
Thanks

[kovacsma]

Hello all,

We are putting our EEA EFM application for my unmarried partner in February 2018, 2 months before our full 2-years of cohabitation. We're doing this because her Tier 5 visa will expire by late September 2018, and we want the EFM RC back by then. We're both working and paying tax, and not in any "unique" arranged marriage or similar scenario... Just a couple dating for more than 3 years now.

We've had a solicitor provide some guidance, and I've put together the following argument (see below in quotes) on our application cover letter, citing legal precedence for our pre-2-year application submission, and also to help in the fact that we only have statements (albeit a lot of them) from individuals and from the building manager, supporting that we were in a durable relationship since September 2014, and that we both lived at the same apartment since April 2016... We don't have any utility bills or any letters addressed to both of us because it was a short period of time that we lived at that address before coming to the UK together. Note the emphasis on "a lot of them": we have a list of at least a dozen couples and individuals from different countries, different professional and social networks, who knew us in different professional and social capacities, recalling wedding attendances as a couple and other activities since September 2014. All of their letters will come with their original signature in ink, and with a copy of their passport for identification purposes.

The argument I have been advised to include on the cover letter:

"Further, there is no European Union definition of "durable", so each case must be looked at on its own facts. In JB (EEA Regulation 17 (4) proper approach) Ivory Coast 2008 UK AIP00062, the Tribunal held that national law must not seek to define community law terms, and it would be wrong to equate this concept of "durability" with living together in a relationship akin to marriage which has subsisted for two years or more. A relationship may further be durable whether it has entailed cohabitation (Dauhoo EEA Regulation 8(2) Mauritius [2012] UK 79 (IAC) a [19])."

I'd appreciate any input from other experienced / experts on this topic. We are obviously anxious, as we'll have been together for 4 years by the time we expect an answer back from the Home Office -- so if they reject it, we'll have to pick up sticks and move out of the UK (i.e. the decision would affect my ability to exercise my EEA rights).

Thanks very much.

[hiddenfriend1]

With all due respect, your post is very unclear & puzzling. You need to make it precise to get proper advice.

For EEA EFM application for unmarried partner, NOTHING will help unless you have some official documentary evidence of you & your partner living together under one roof for at least 2 years at the time when you submit application. Home Office guidelines for a registration certificate or residence card as the extended family member of an EEA national are very clear. You can check from the following as it tells what documents HO prefers.

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -04_KP.pdf

Moreover, if you precisely tell your problem, you would surely get better help than this.

[kovacsma]

Okay, apologies: let me be very clear then.

A solicitor has advised us to cite case law which has set a precedent, whereby you do not necessarily need two years of cohabitation to demonstrate a durable relationship. We have cited this in a statement on our cover letter for the application:

While it is understood that the Home Office intermittently applied a rule of thumb of two years' cohabitation when assessing whether the partner of an EEA national is indeed in a durable relationship with the EEA national, the present guidance titled "Extended Family Members" recognizes that if there is less than two years' evidence, the decision maker can still accept that there was evidence that their relationship is durable.

Further, there is no European Union definition of "durable", so each case must be looked at on its own facts. In JB (EEA Regulation 17 (4) proper approach) Ivory Coast 2008 UK AIP00062, the Tribunal held that national law must not seek to define community law terms, and it would be wrong to equate this concept of "durability" with living together in a relationship akin to marriage which has subsisted for two years or more. A relationship may further be durable whether it has entailed cohabitation (Dauhoo EEA Regulation 8(2) Mauritius [2012] UK 79 (IAC) a [19]).

Our solicitor has also stated it is okay that we do not have utility bills or original mail that has both of our names on it, from the earlier part of our two years of cohabitation. Instead, we have a letter from the landlord stating when we had been living together, and from many other people we knew in casual and professional capacities. These letters come with their passport and original signature in ink.

I hope this is clearer.

[Obie]

Unfortunately Home Office does not give a damn about case law. But the caselaw you sited is indeed on point.

[kovacsma]

You mean they'll ignore the precedent and just tell us off?

[kovacsma]

Let me explain my purpose for reaching out on here, in a different way:

I'm going to follow this solicitor's advice and put this case law on here. They seemed rather confident that we could submit our application a few months before we reached the two year point of cohabiting, since we can demonstrate a durable relationship for much longer before, by way of statements from many different people.

I am simply looking for some third-party encouragement that this may work, or what we might also include to make sure we have a strong chance. This is all very depressing and nerve racking indeed... If anyone else has successfully achieved what we're trying, that would be great to hear about.

[hiddenfriend1]

As far as I know with my personal experience, HO will ignore not only that cover letter but also all these statements from other people in casual and professional capacities. These statements would only help if you fulfil all other suitable evidence explained by HO in guideline. For example:

You must have Joint Tenancy Agreement with letter from your landlord or letting agency confirming this. If you don't have letter from letting agency, ask your landlord to attach his copy of passport, it will help otherwise HO can accuse it not to be genuine.

Joint electricity OR gas bills.
Joint water bills (If these are included in your monthly rent, ask landlord to mention in joint tenancy agreement & that letter too.)
Joint Council tax bills.
Joint bank statements or bank letters.
Telephone bills of you and your sponsor together on same address.
Any medical or GP letter of you and your sponsor together on same address.
Photographs of you and your sponsor together on holiday or at a family celebration.
Any Whatsapp chat, Facebook or any social media evidence from start to date, which you both share.

In short, you need to provide as much as evidence to HO which show them that you are genuine normal couple and are not only doing this for sake for RC.

Other thing, which I am quite sure but you have to have the evidence of 2 YEARS living together to apply for EEA EFM application for unmarried partner. This is very important unless I am completely wrong.

[hiddenfriend1]

Obie is far more experienced than me & he is saying same. I know for sure that he has vast experience in this. But if you still want to go for it, just go for it but here all members, moderators & guru will only advice you with all honesty without being worried about any FEE. But yes, in the end it is your decision.

Remember you need to make your case as strong as possible as per HO guidelines to get your RC because in the end, it is HO who is going to give you RC & again with my personal experience, they really don't care about case law or any cover letter rather they would just ignore.

[kovacsma]

But from what I gather from your post, the HO won't even care about all these other pieces of evidence? I mean, it seems silly to take travel tickets, social media posts and photos as evidence when you don't care about original signed documents from people who've also provided their passport for verification of identity.

All we have for demonstrating cohabitation as early as April 2016 is the building management company's letter. We did not have a joint tenancy agreement because she moved in just a few months before we were set to move to the UK... As we try to explain in our application, we never switched any of her subscriptions or any of the bills because that would've been nonsense, just a few months before the planned departure date.

[kovacsma]

What really gets me is that this wisdom you're providing seems to suggest the HO completely ignores its own guidance documents (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -04_KP.pdf). Under the un-married partner section, it explicitly covers the case where the couple does not have utility bills / joint tenancy agreement, and it advises the same as our solicitor. But as I said, I give credit to your anecdotal experience/wisdom too - - and you're saying this is all bollocks?

Depressing and nerve racking, see ?

[Obie]

What really gets me is that this wisdom you're providing seems to suggest the HO completely ignores its own guidance documents (https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... -04_KP.pdf). Under the un-married partner section, it explicitly covers the case where the couple does not have utility bills / joint tenancy agreement, and it advises the same as our solicitor. But as I said, I give credit to your anecdotal experience/wisdom too - - and you're saying this is all bollocks?

Depressing and nerve racking, see ?

I believe the individual advising you, may be expressing a view based on his personal experience.

Home Office treatment of Extended family member has been extremely poor since the decision of SALA last year, when appeal rights were unlawfully withdrawn by the upper Tribunal. They continue to insist on the 2 years rule and even where the 2 years rules are met, they still find silly and baseless basis to refuse.

[kovacsma]

But if I understand your other recent thread posts, SALA was just overturned a few days ago? So there is RoA now, for EFM?

[hiddenfriend1]

kovacsma,

Are you blind or completely incompetent to read what I said? Didn't I say that what I was telling you was based on my personal experience with HO & you could also search in this forum, you would definitely find loads of people like me. I also said," If you still want to go for it, just go for it." " These statements would only help as other evidences if you fulfil all other suitable evidence explained by HO in guidelines." What more do you want me to say?

I really don't need your sarcastic or sadistic remarks which only show your desperation & frustration. You are being advised almost same from Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:22 pm. I am really not interested for your catharsis. Go & find someone else. In the end, I have nothing to lose whether you are rejected or granted RC by HO so why should I even bother. It was nothing but waste of time communicating with you.

[kovacsma]

I'm sorry you've read my responses int he Männer you have... I was not being sarcastic, rude, or any other negative thing towards you... I am simply trying to communicate my frustration towards understanding how this all works, in spite of HO guidance.

Your outburst here is unnecessary.

Edit: hiddenfriend1, you should also know that I think you carry yourself with a bit of authority on the board, so when I read your statement "in my personal experience", I actually think you have a number of experiences, possibly as some sort of legal advisor... Hence why your very unfortunate experience has made me even more concerned,because i think you are seeing it first hand.

[J10M]

Just double checking this, but do we post timelines for EEA EFM (unmarried) in the normal EEA FM timeline thread?

[CR001]

Just double checking this, but do we post timelines for EEA EFM (unmarried) in the normal EEA FM timeline thread?

Yes please.

[Dezgrind]

Hello,

Might be a silly question, but can someone please confirm to me that if we've received all of our documents back, with a letter attached saying that the residence card will arrive within next 10 working days- that actually means that everything is fine and the residence card has been issued, or is that just a generic answer and we still might get a letter, saying that it was declined sometime soon?
Basically I am not sure if the refusal letter arrives with the documents, or later, or earlier and what to expect now.

Thanks

[J10M]

How quick was your application?

Would be nice if you posted a timeline. All the best with the result.

[Dezgrind]

How quick was your application?

Would be nice if you posted a timeline. All the best with the result.

29.06.17- application sent
03.08.17- biometrics enrolled
12.08.17- biometrics received in HO
29.08.17- COA recieved
12.10.17- status changed to decided
17.10.17- documents received (just now, 2 hours ago) with the letter saying to wait for the card separately

No home visits, no work calls, at least none of which i was informed.
I don't know whether to be happy or still worried about his.

[Piet]

Hi everyone,

Apologies if this is a really stupid question, but this whole application process has me stressed out and I want to make sure I am following the right path here.

I'm currently here on Tier 4 Student Visa, but my wife has a Dutch paspport, so I plan to go the EEA FM Residence Card route.

Is this the correct link to apply at https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/eea-qp ?
And do I apply in my spouse's name with myself added as a family member (i.e. EEA QP application for her with me added), and pay £130 (£65 x 2)? Or is there somewhere where I can apply only for myself only (and just add her details without the QP application)?

Thanks!

[J10M]

Hi everyone,

Apologies if this is a really stupid question, but this whole application process has me stressed out and I want to make sure I am following the right path here.

I'm currently here on Tier 4 Student Visa, but my wife has a Dutch paspport, so I plan to go the EEA FM Residence Card route.

Is this the correct link to apply at https://visas-immigration.service.gov.uk/product/eea-qp ?
And do I apply in my spouse's name with myself added as a family member (i.e. EEA QP application for her with me added), and pay £130 (£65 x 2)? Or is there somewhere where I can apply only for myself only (and just add her details without the QP application)?

Thanks!

From my knowledge, what you have mentioned abouve is correct. You will do the application with her as the QP and add yourself, at least that is how the online application works. Yes, two x £65.