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The lower demand is exactly what I'm afraid of (all lawyers jokes aside). Trying to stay positive - thanks for the quick reply. Still curious if you know what the NARIC score is for my JD degree?Sher wrote:U shld be alright ..... except that u r possibly listed as a potential competitor to Mrs. Cherie Blair![]()
On a serious note, yr profession might not be one in cringing demand. Hence a bit of delay.
Keep 'em +
No probs.deborahCO wrote:Kayalami- I appreciate the detailed information, thank you. To answer your questions:
A factor to your advantage then were you to pursue the exams route.deborahCO wrote:1. US lawyers do study torts based on the English system of common law, though of course with an American law slant.
I can't comment on the comparative difficulty or otherwise of the two legal systems given that I have attempted neither. Yes in common with those qualifying from most US jurisdictions you would need to sit 3 Heads of the Test for inclusion in the law society roll. Note that US attorneys in the UK have primarily been active in the banking and energy sectors. The former is still holding up but the latter saw US corporations get stung - they paid over the odds for assets, utility prices dropped, they sold out at huge losses and went back home. Have you, in your application, documented relevant evidence of such US attorney jobs in the UK?deborahCO wrote:2. I'm qualified to practise law in the UK as an American lawyer working with American law firms or UK firms/companies that require knowledge of American law without further qualification. To become an English solicitor, I have to provide proof of my bar qualifications here and sit for 3 heads of the UK bar exam, which is given 6 times/yr and has a very high passage rate. (I'm told that, when compared to an American bar exam, its actually much easier to pass in the UK, though of course I don't know that firsthand). The results are available in less than 3 months, and then I simply pay a fee to be listed on the rolls of solicitors. All of this can be accomplished from the US and prior to my emigration.
The three states fit into the above profile. The length of practice shows you meet the minimum relevant work experience of 5 years = 25 pts.deborahCO wrote:3. I am licensed to practise law in 3 states: New York, Colorado and Missouri. I have been licensed to practice for nearly 9 years now.
Certainly adds to the seniority aspect of the work experience factor - it would have been ideal for an organogram to be submitted. I've got you up to 35 points on WE.deborahCO wrote:4. I serve on the Board of our local Legal Aid organization serving a community of approx. 150,000. I've served as a member of the Board of Directors for the past two years, guiding and directing the mission of the organization, hiring/firing employees, etc. I did provide a detailed letter of reference from the Board's Chairman setting forth my duties and responsibilities. My position as a member of the Board did not require the graduate degree, but my law practise here absolutely does!
1. The 7 Yrs you mention is a peculiarity of the US education system in relation to its legal profession. With all due respect would you not agree that you can do the JD without the initial bachelors? If you were telling me the BA content is mandatory for the JD then that's a different story. Pursuant to such it would be illogical/ unfair of the HSMP Team to take into account the BA.deborahCO wrote:I have a question for you on the qualification of my JD, which you equate to a Bachelor of Laws. You equate the minimum number of points there, but I also hold a Bachelor of Arts (4 yr) degree. To get the JD requires a minimum of 7 years of study -- equivalent to a UK student holding an LLB who has completed their articles with a barrister or solicitor. I do know that American requirements to practise law are far stricter than in the UK, and we must study one additional year and a larger variety of subjects, though our laws (except in Louisiana) are based on English law. Are you basing your statement on NARIC's equivalencies, or your own observations?
I am not disputing that a Bachelor's is a pre-requisite to study law in the US - as per my prior response this is just a feature of the system. Excactly on what grounds this is I can't ascertain but presume its either a 'filtering' or 'foundation strengthening' mechanism. Fact remains that if the BA was not a pre-requisite one could still do the JD straight from High School where holding appropriate credits ala UK - hence a US JD = UK LLB = 15 points..for the HSMP Team to judge it otherwise would be unfair/ without merit.deborahCO wrote:Actually, you cannot study for a JD without first being awarded your bachelor's degree from an accredited 4-year college. Any accredited American law school requires the bachelors as a prerequisite to enrolling for a JD degree. Thus 4 years Bachelors + 3 years JD = 7 years required study for an American law degree.
What excactly don't you follow? You deem your qualifications to JD to equate to a UK lawyer. I'm saying that IMHO this is incorrect..both systems require a period of appropriate training leading to a 'right to practice'...hence a US JD (degree only) does not equate to a UK (qualified with right to practice) lawyer.deborahCO wrote:I'm not sure that I follow that, as that would make the UK law degree the equivalent of an American BA, and would render UK lawyers unable to sit for American bar exams, which I know is not the case.
So one system vis a vis the other has breadth and one depth - which is stricter in either is a matter of reviewing in great detail the total content covered across to both educational qualifications, training and right to practice in relation to relevant statutes and legal systems...are we going into semantics heredeborahCO wrote:US requirements are stricter in that American lawyers must study and pass exams on approximately 12-17 basic legal subjects and a multijurisdictional exam on basic laws of all states (i.e., Real Property, Torts, Contracts, Constitutional Law, Criminal Law, and Civil Procedure), while the UK version has only 4 topics to its exam. Additionally, UK lawyers are taught specialisations, requiring them to take tracks for exam (i.e., civil or criminal). American lawyers must study and pass exams on both civil and criminal law, and are eligible to practise transactional (=solicitor) or litigation before the Court (= barrister) without further requirements due to the comprehensive nature of American legal study and our bar exams.
You can always send in additional documentation you deem relevant in support of your application prior to processing - such may or may not get there in time/ be of relevance.deborahCO wrote:I'm concerned that I didn't submit enough evidence of the requirements, so sending off for my NARIC equivalency report today. As for job eligibility, my application was probably pretty thin there, as I have worked both as an attorney and for a non-profit (2 yrs) doing development work and I could work in that field again without any special exams being required. I submitted job postings for both, and an explanation of my belief of my eligibility to do either. I hope that was enough, but given the delay, it seems maybe my application wasn't sufficient!
Sure - anytime.Again, many many thanks for your advice!!!
deborahCO wrote:Well, while I don't agree with your depiction of how you view the comparisons (and want to correct you on your misinterpretation that a US JD doesn't qualify to practice law - under either US or UK, you CANNOT practice law without first taking exams; and you should recognize that the US JD is the first GRADUATE degree, while the LLB is an UNDERGRADUATE degree), but I respect your thoughts on the issue and will weigh my submission of additional documents with your advice in mind. Again, thanks. I'll let you know what NARIC has to say, but its been an interesting comparison, with very helpful insights from you for my application.