ILR BRP impounded at Heathrow two and a half years after naturalisation

[intalex]

Thanks Secret.Simon,

I am happy with having the ability to use my non-UK passport on its own only until it expires, in fact I was happy to use my ILR BRP with the non-UK passport only until it expired (there were >6 years left on it) with no expectation that the BRP would ever be renewed. Also, had there been a process to impound ILR BRPs upon naturalisation at the time when I applied for naturalisation, I would have simply held off from doing so until a more suitable time. My issue is I need more time!

Would be great if I could get some guidance on how to cancel my British Passport and then applying for the CoE-RoA.

[secret.simon]

Would be great if I could get some guidance on how to cancel my British Passport and then applying for the CoE-RoA.

Hmm, it seems the only way to get your British passport cancelled is to report it as lost or stolen.

You can contact the Passport Adviceline for further advice (though experience on these forums with other Home Office contact centres has not been positive).

You can then apply for a CoE-RoA.

Be aware that CoE-RoA does not have a same day facility and it can take a few weeks or months (between six and sixteen weeks) for your non-British passport to be returned after being affixed with the CoE-RoA. So, plan your travel accordingly.

Also, remember that as CoE-RoA does not indicate your British citizenship, it does not allow for freedom of movement within the EU. To the best of my knowledge, there is no alternative to a British passport for travel within in the EU. But I could be wrong on this point.

[secret.simon]

On a point of interest, if you plan to escalate the matter to the Home Office and your MP, it may be worth suggesting to them that the Home Office put in place a system like New Zealand, which allows NZ citizenship to be electronically linked to a non-NZ passport. That way, one does not even need a physical CoE-RoA.

There are certain caveats to this approach.
a) You would need to be a non-visa national to get onto the flight/ship.
b) You would need to inform the Home Office if your non-British passport is lost or stolen.
c) Your British citizenship is not recognised by any other country, which is also the case with a CoE-RoA.

As an aside, a thread covering why people with ILR are increasingly less likely to have vignettes and have moved over to BRPs.

[intalex]

Hmm, it seems the only way to get your British passport cancelled is to report it as lost or stolen.

You can contact the Passport Adviceline for further advice (though experience on these forums with other Home Office contact centres has not been positive).

Thanks, I don't really want to report my passport lost or stolen, I just want to cancel it voluntarily. I'm surprised there isn't an option to do this. I'll give the advice line a try and see what they say.

In the meantime, if there are any experiences of having cancelled British passport and obtaining a CoE-RoA from any forum members, I would be most grateful to get some advice on how to go about it. Thanks in advance!

On a point of interest, if you plan to escalate the matter to the Home Office and your MP, it may be worth suggesting to them that the Home Office put in place a system like New Zealand, which allows NZ citizenship to be electronically linked to a non-NZ passport. That way, one does not even need a physical CoE-RoA.

There are certain caveats to this approach.
a) You would need to be a non-visa national to get onto the flight/ship.
b) You would need to inform the Home Office if your non-British passport is lost or stolen.
c) Your British citizenship is not recognised by any other country, which is also the case with a CoE-RoA.

As an aside, a thread covering why people with ILR are increasingly less likely to have vignettes and have moved over to BRPs.

I'll give this a go though not in my initial communication as this might digress from my more pressing needs.

[AdInfernos]

Not entirely true. There are some (a very small number, but they do exist) non-British Commonwealth citizens who have Right of Abode in the UK due to having been resident in the UK before 1983. We know that the OP is not one of them, but I'm just pointing out that RoA does not definitely prove that you are a British citizen. The only thing that an RoA does conclusively prove is that the OP is the citizen of a Commonwealth country who has the right to reside in the UK.

Also, we on these forums know what RoA is. But an immigration official in say China or Iran is unlikely to know the difference between an RoA vignette and an older ILR vignette or the difference between RoA and ILR. From their point of view, both of them give the holder the right to reside in the UK and that is likely all that they are interested in.

Certainly there are a small number of pre-1983 non-British citizens with right of abode, but I guess nearly all people with the right of abode at present are British citizens. Anyway, I should have said "almost" only.

On the immigration official recognising the vignette, checking the type of immigration documents issued by the UK or indeed other EU countries, is as easy as visiting PRADO at http://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en ... -page.html

Certainly not all immigration officials will do, but it will also depend a lot on local policies with regard to visitors showing links to particular countries. In those cases probably they know what they need to know.

[AdInfernos]

Also, remember that as CoE-RoA does not indicate your British citizenship, it does not allow for freedom of movement within the EU. To the best of my knowledge, there is no alternative to a British passport for travel within in the EU. But I could be wrong on this point.

But, anyway, not all British passports allow for freedom of movement within the EU.

[bruteforce]

But, anyway, not all British passports allow for freedom of movement within the EU.

What do you mean by that?

[AdInfernos]

But, anyway, not all British passports allow for freedom of movement within the EU.

What do you mean by that?

British passports issued in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands to British citizens who have no connection with the UK have an observation as follows:

The holder is not entitled to benefit from EU provisions relating to employment or establishment

[secret.simon]

On the immigration official recognising the vignette, checking the type of immigration documents issued by the UK or indeed other EU countries, is as easy as visiting PRADO at http://www.consilium.europa.eu/prado/en ... -page.html

Thank you for the link to PRADO. I was not aware of that resource.

The PRADO entry on CoE-RoA does not mention anything about British citizenship and therefore the right to move around and reside in the EU. It merely mentions that the legal status of the CoE-RoA is "Confirmation of Right of Abode (right to reside) in the United Kingdom. Allows the holder to visa-free return to, and to work in the UK".

But, anyway, not all British passports allow for freedom of movement within the EU.

What do you mean by that?

British passports issued in the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands to British citizens who have no connection with the UK have an observation as follows:

The holder is not entitled to benefit from EU provisions relating to employment or establishment

True. Of course the Immigration officer's job is made easier because the front cover of British passports issued by the Channel Islands and the Isle of Man are visibly different from British passports issued in the UK.

[intalex]

For the purposes of this thread, all I am interested in is to have a BRP or a Vignette on my non-UK passport that I can show to an airline as proof of ability to enter UK when I am trying to fly back to the UK, I'm not bothered who perceives what from that BRP or Vignette.

I just don't want to have to carry my British passport (or naturalisation certificate) as well.

[intalex]

Thanks, I don't really want to report my passport lost or stolen, I just want to cancel it voluntarily. I'm surprised there isn't an option to do this. I'll give the advice line a try and see what they say.

I called the passport advice line who asked me to write a letter explaining that I wanted to voluntarily cancel my British passport in favour of a CoE-RoA on my non-UK passport, and send it together with my British passport to the Passport office. Apparently, voluntarily cancelling passports is not so uncommon, so I'm surprised they don't have a published process for it.

The advisor couldn't give me a timeline on how soon this would be done, so I said I would take it to my local Passport office in-person, find out the timelines from the appropriate person, and then decide whether to go through with it there and then.

[intalex]

So today was my first real opportunity to spend time researching this issue on these forums, and it appears that the majority of people's expectation was that the ILR BRP is a useless/invalid/cancelled document as soon as one is naturalised, most people felt it simply wouldn't work any more if anyone attempted to use it. This tells me I should consider myself lucky I was even able to use it for 2.5 years.

(I think) I would have been able to continue using it through to the expiry of the BRP had I simply used my non-UK passport & BRP to return to the UK at least once within any rolling 6-month period, as it appears there may be a requirement to delete biometrics (of British Citizens?) if not used/validated for 6 continuous months.

For the majority of the 2.5 years post-naturalisation, I did re-enter the UK with my non-UK passport & BRP frequently with no "gaps" exceeding 6 months, but as my last return to the UK in this way was in Feb-17 and now Nov-17, and given that the issue at Heathrow effectively started because my biometrics were not appearing on their systems (all other details were and the card was not cancelled/invalidated), my guess is that this issue has happened because of the >6 month gap in use of the BRP to return to the UK.

Anyway, at least I know what options I have in front of me now.

Thanks everyone for your input and helpful comments.

[intalex]

Just wondering if anyone else has attempted to use their ILR BRP post-naturalisation in the last 6 months, and whether they faced any similar issues as myself?

[vinny]

Hope you didn’t have any UK born children between the time you had ILR and before your grant of naturalisation.

[intalex]

Hope you didn’t have any UK born children between the time you had ILR and before your grant of naturalisation.

No I didn't, so that's not an issue... but the feeling of isolated treatment in the impounding of my ILR BRP given no one else has reported similar treatment is starting to feel harsh!!!

[intalex]

Another 3 months have passed and still can't see any other reported cases of ILR BRP being impounded on re-entry on the basis of having already naturalised...

[ouflak1]

It's become more common knowledge now about the relationship of a BRP to immigrants/residents and its cessation at citizenship. The Home Office does a lot better job of informing people and even threatens a £1000 fine if it isn't returned on acquisition of citizenship, though that's probably more symbolic than anything else. Border Control is now well-versed and experienced with such things. Even when the BRP was introduced, the overwhelming majority of people acquired the appropriate documents (passports/ROA/etc...) anyway. I think it unlikely you will see too many cases of this happening again. The BRP is firmly established.

Also keep in mind that this site only gets a small fraction of posting of the total overall immigration population. Even if this does happen again a few more times, there is no guarantee any of those people will come to this site, or any site, to post about it online.

[idonno]

Interesting read and yes, it might have become common knowledge about BRP to some but it is still a trap that people (my wife being one) can fall in to. If the BRP is going to be dead once you get your naturalisation certificate, why bother to have yet another set of biometrics taken as part of the naturalisation process?

But I do wonder what would have happened if the registrar hadn't mentioned, just prior to the ceremony, that the BRP had to be returned. I also wonder what would have happened to the wife if I hadn't looked online that evening. To date, she has been travelling to and fro to her native country, non EU (has 2 young children with a father that is now seriously ill in hospital), using her home passport. I'd assumed there would be a time frame to return the BRP but no, in bold letters, on the gov.uk site, it says, cut it in four and return it within 5 working days or face a fine of £1000! Gulp!

Number 1 big headache was finding out what she would use on returning to the UK. Reason it was a big headache was that she'd already had a flight booked for the next weekend to sort the children's schooling etc out. If the Home Office had highlighted the fact that she would need a British passport to re-enter the UK after the BC ceremony, it would have been put off for a month. Cost to her for the now cancelled flight, £100 in cancellation charges. Peanuts to rich people but for run of the mill, expensive.

I looked how fast she could get a British passport. No fast track available, 6 weeks minimum. I even looked at getting a certificate put into her existing passport. Cost £332 and 16 weeks to make a decision! Where do the people who inhabit the HO live? People do have lives to live. She is currently going through the throws of applying for a BP.

With the amount of paperwork that is provided to the Home Office as part of the process and how important having a British passport becomes after the ceremony, you would think the British Government (read Home Office) would GIVE each naturalisation citizen, a British Passport. Now that would be a great welcome to the family of the UK.

As it is, I really cannot see why the HO couldn't continue to allow the use of the BRP (which does have an expiry date) with a foreign passport. The HO is just making life difficult, just for the sake of making life difficult. The naturalisation certificate, when you look at what it does, is a pretty worthless piece of paper. Once she has her BP, it will be filed away (assuming they do return it), probably never to see the light of day again.

Food for thought, I do wonder how many people (Windrush 2 maybe) have left the country after naturalisation, only to be denied entry when they tried to return to the UK, lacking their British Passport.

[vinny]

I suspect they want another set of biometrics for naturalisation to confirm that the applicant is the same person as the ILR BRP holder.

If she can use her unexpired ILR BRP to board a plane, then, for practical purposes, she should be able to travel.

They cannot easily refuse a British citizen the right of abode. The worst they could do to her at the British port is to impound her BRP. However, if she had British UK-born children while being an ILR holder, then her ILR BRP may be their primary source of British citizenships.

Don't forget also that her naturalisation certificate actually confers her British citizenship, while a British passport is merely evidence of it. Which is more important?

[idonno]

That's part of the problem, you don't use the BRP to exit the UK. You just get your foreign passport stamped on the way out (to say you've exited the UK). Without the BRP, It was decided rather than have problems boarding a plane 6000 miles away, we'd scrap the trip. Inconvenient yes, but having seen people get pulled out of line as they go to board a UK bound aircraft (in Hong Kong and Abu Dhabi) by (presumably) UK officials (men in black suits) isn't something we needed or wanted to take a chance on.

As it says on gov.uk, you cannot use the naturalisation certificate to come back into the UK. At that point in time, the British passport becomes far more valuable than the certificate will ever be. And it actually states that you must use a British passport to enter the UK. Another complicating factor is that airlines in the Far East will refuse boarding if your immigration status isn't 100% i.e. they don't want to fly you back.

I see my wife is not alone Another thread on much the same subject.

I do think though maybe time to gee up the MP. I might even write to the chair of the HO select committee.

Thanks for your thoughts.

[vinny]

Do you believe that the UKVI is efficient enough to routinely and automatically cancel an ILR BRP's validity after naturalisation?

If the UKVI did cancel her ILR BRP because she is British, then they know that she is British. Then perhaps ask the airline to contact the Border Force at the airport or airport terminal she’s trying to go to, to get a Chief Immigration Officer’s authority to carry with no Carriers‘ Liability penalty?

APPENDIX A: Examples of where charges may be waived

Where there is evidence that the carrier had acted on the advice of a representative of the United Kingdom Government, and it was reasonable, in the circumstances, for the carrier to rely on that advice.

Where, for example, a passenger has been carried on the advice of a UK mission abroad or a UK immigration officer, the charge will normally be waived.

Advice given on the authenticity of an individual document cannot always be regarded as definitive, particularly if advice is sought by telephone, and the Immigration Service has been unable to examine the document concerned. Furthermore, it is incumbent on the carrier when seeking advice, to provide full and accurate information as to why it has doubts over the particular passenger’s documentation.

A British citizen entering without a British passport is possible.

However, if she doesn’t want to risk this, then apply for the correct document.

[intalex]

Just finally coming around to initiating at switching my British Passport with a CoE-RoA in a couple of months' time!

Question if I had the CoE-RoA: Would UKBA stamp the non-UK passport on re-entry?

[vinny]

No.

[intalex]

Thanks

Sounds like having to wait in the much longer non-EU passport queue (which will probably become a much longer non-UK passport queue post-Brexit) just to pass through without any checks/endorsement

[vinny]

A CoE-RoA holder may join the British citizen passport queue.