salaried + self employemnt to make it £35000(FLR) Pls Help

[mayana]

Is it possible to use salaried employement payslip and self employement to apply for FLR.


mayana

[T_mahmood]

Yes.... i have the same question that for FLR if someone is

1. Doing full time job and getting 22000 per annum

2. Self employment (Business) with total income above 50,000 per annum.

He needs to earn 33000 per annum to get 75 points. Would it be ok for extention?

All the response would be highly appreciated.....
Regards.

[sunny9675]

yes it valid

u can show

1. £ 32000+PAYE
2. Dividend vouchers £ 30000 +

3. £ 22000 paye + £ 10000 dividend voucher or any combination

[mayana]

what if am registered as the sole trader of my bussiness without dividend as every amount i make is sometime paid as cheque or cash and i owned all my profit.. Can one show bank statement , Bussiness tax return as evidence for proof of income for self employement and payslip, P60 and bank statement for salaried employement if i use this combination is it allowed...any experience pls

[mayana]

anymore comment

[jaya4422]

what you written is ok for salaried employee .
where as for sole trader i think you have to show
1. business accounts signed by you(sole trader) showing net profit after expenditure(i.e before tax)
2.Accounts showing net profits signed by an accountant.

i was stucked up here and after lot of thorough study i got these from Tier-1
guidance.I mailed to BIA and got irrelevant response not even a word about sole trader.
if you have any comments please post

[mayana]

Not sole trader as you mean it but the sole owner of a consultancy firm with bank statement and bussiness tax in the u.k and salaried employement as well..

mayana

[santosh_katakam]

Hi,

I am about to apply for my extension in next couple of weeks and i am self-employed working as a contractor for my client and as a director for my own limited company. I have been drawing a salary of £2900.00/mth for the past one year as an employee within my limited company. So, its comes around 33k for the whole year thereby I am qualified with more than 75 points including other attributes.

If I apply myself as "self-employed" and qualified with more than 75 points and 10 points in English Language requirements and 10 points in Maintenance Funds (though I am qualified under transitional arrangements for Maintenance funds where I can show single bank stmt only for past one month before my application) Could you please clarify whether do I still need to satisfy the following conditions listed below under transitional arrangements for Self-Employed. (inspite of submitting my P60 for the amount drawn as my salary, payslips for 12 months and personal bank statements as a proof of my earnings.).

To qualify for permission under the transitional arrangements for ‘Self-employed Persons’

Applicants must demonstrate
that during their preceding period of HSMP leave they have:
• Set up their own business, either singly or with others;
and
• Established their business and have been actively trading for at least the last four months prior to their application; and
• Secured ongoing contractual/business commitments for their business to cover at least six months from the date of application.
155. Applicants must also satisfy the other immigration rule requirements for a grant of further leave to remain under Tier1 (General) including the English Language and Maintenance requirements.

Documentary Requirements
156. For the purposes of paragraph 245F of the Immigration Rules, the documents specified are as follows:
1. Applicants must submit their HMRC registration documents confirming that they are registered for tax.
2. Applicants must submit copies of contracts and invoices for their business, covering at least the last four months:
3. Applicants must submit copies of:
• Documents establishing that their business has contractual/business commitments for a period covering the next six months
• Business plans/business projections covering a period which includes the next six months:
Applicants should provide both these documents where they are available. Where the applicant is unable to submit either
or both of these documents applicants should provide:
4. Draft management/business accounts for their business and two documents from the list below:
• Utility bills showing the name of the business;
• VAT Return;
• Company registration certificate with Companies House;
• Copies of any registration documents (such as Local Health
Authority registration);
• Lease of premises for business use;
• Insurance documentation for the business.


If you say, I need to produce these documents then as an IT contractor to my client, I am not sure what business plans/projection documents do I need to show. Could you please let me know what documents you expect from an applicant from IT sector.

Also, my contract has just extended on March 29th for another 3 months till end of June, 2008. if you receive my extension application on 15th April 2008, then I would be having only around 1.5 months contract as I cannot ask my client to extend my contract before 28 days of my contract expiry and I cant wait to extend my contract as my visa expires on May 12. In this case, will you accept a letter from my client that my client will definitely be extending it for another few months as per your requirements. If you don’t accept then, instead of business plans/projections, contractual commitments for the period covering next six months, can I produce my company business accounts, company registeration certificate, Company Insurance documents and a letter from my accountant with all my earnings, dividends, shares, taxes,etc for you to extend my application. please clarify in detail.

I would also like to clarify about the paragraph 153 which mentions the following in the policy quidance.

153. To be eligible for the ‘Transitional Arrangements for Selfemployed Persons’ applicants must:
• Have had their previous grant of leave under HSMP made under the arrangements that were in place prior to 08 November 2006;
• Have assessed themselves against the Primary Tier 1 (General) page 17 of 25 Attributes points scoring assessment sections of this form and failed to meet the minimum required score of 75 points;
• Be currently engaged in self employment/business in the UK.

My quesiton being a self-employed, will I be eligible for Transitional arrangements only if I satisfy all the above 3 bullet points under paragraph 153 or any one should be enough to be eligible. If all, then I cant apply under transitional arrangements as I am qualified with more than 75 points by sumbitting my p60,bank statements and payslips under earnings and with other attributes. Please clarify.

Expecting your reply at the earliest.

thanks for your help in Advance.

cheers,
Santosh

[mayana]

santosh_katakam,
Basically you are qualified for Transitional Arrangment if you do not meet the 75 points..and you must justify this when filling your application with the proof you are submitting and from the policy guideline; You may be able to get permission to stay in the United Kingdom if you are self-employed if:

.Your previous permission to stay under HSMP (known as 'leave to leave to enter' or 'leave to remain') was made under the arrangements that were in place before 8 November 2006;
.You do not meet the minimum score of 75 points for attributes in the points-based calculator;
.You are currently self-employed in the United Kingdom;
.You set up your own business, either on your own or with others;
.You established your business and have been actively trading for at least four months before your application; and
.You have ongoing business commitments for at least six months from the date of application.

My only confusion is whether you can combine earnings from self employed and salaried employement to get £35,000...but I have read it somewhere in the point based system policy guidance the caseworker should be able to establish if you are the sole owner from document you submitted with your application for extension or all the income is classified as profit so whether you are paying yourself,although a cover note might be of help ...

BUT my main concern is whether its possible to combine earnings from self employed and salaried employement to get £35,000

Mayana

[farazfastian]

If you read Guidance Notes/BIA website you'll find there are only two options you can apply under if you are doing your own business

Salaried employees with dividend payments

If you are paid through a combination of salary and dividends, the combination of documents outlined above will only be enough where both the salary and the dividend appear on both types of document provided.

Self-employed earnings within a business or company structure

If you have worked in a self-employed capacity through your own company structure and have chosen not to take regular salary payments but to retain those earnings within the company

But both of the options are not clear, i.e.

- in first option it looks like being a director of the company you can show combination of your monthly salary + dividends so it doesn't include total earning of your company its just your earning being director and sole share holder of the company which just requires salary slips, personal bank statement and dividend vouchers

- in second case which clearly states that if you are not taking monthly salary then you'll have to show your business profit before tax and for evidence you'll be providing your company accounts, bank statements, accountant letters etc

Now to me if i apply under first category i stilly worry because i'm not providing any company related documents so if something goes wrong i cannot apply for review.
And if i apply under second category it's not taking my salary in to consideration it's totally my business profit and there are extensive list of documentation required to prove your business earning.

It really baffles me what to do...

[Sushil-ACCA]

Transitional extension is risky choice

it will depend on their judgement

so it is better

1.Employee
2.Entreprenuer ( COMPANY / sole trader )
3.employee / entrepreneur

you need a good accountant either Chartered accountant / ACCA

who have done this work as this is a new area of work

[mayana]

yes it valid

u can show

1. £ 32000+PAYE
2. Dividend vouchers £ 30000 +

3. £ 22000 paye + £ 10000 dividend voucher or any combination

sunny9675 , have you experience this suituation before

[mayana]

Transitional extension is risky choice

it will depend on their judgement

so it is better

1.Employee
2.Entreprenuer ( COMPANY / sole trader )
3.employee / entrepreneur

you need a good accountant either Chartered accountant / ACCA

who have done this work as this is a new area of work

The issue here is all about combination of salaried and self employemnt to make earning £35000..The issue about what is required for Transitional arrangement is well spelt out at the BIA website but combination of salaried and self employement for extension isn't..

mayana

[santosh_katakam]

Thanks for all your replies friends but could anyone of you please answer to this question below which i posted already.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I would also like to clarify about the paragraph 153 which mentions the following in the policy quidance.

153. To be eligible for the ‘Transitional Arrangements for Selfemployed Persons’ applicants must:
• Have had their previous grant of leave under HSMP made under the arrangements that were in place prior to 08 November 2006;
• Have assessed themselves against the Primary Tier 1 (General) page 17 of 25 Attributes points scoring assessment sections of this form and failed to meet the minimum required score of 75 points;
• Be currently engaged in self employment/business in the UK.

My quesiton being a self-employed, will I be eligible for Transitional arrangements only if I satisfy all the above 3 bullet points under paragraph 153 or any one should be enough to be eligible. If all, then I cant apply under transitional arrangements as I am qualified with more than 75 points by sumbitting my p60,bank statements and payslips under earnings and with other attributes. Please clarify.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The reason why i am asking this question is "I am not interested in going for Transitional arrangment" because i am qualified by showing my salary as the guidance say that i can always show my salary as my earnings which i have been drawing every month for a person who owns a limited company. the toughest part is to extend my contract for next six months which i think is not possible because i stilll have my existing contract for next two months. please provide me some suggestions.

Also can anybody tell me what should i do for my business plans/projections being an IT consultant. anybody has any idea what to submit.

thanks for your help in advance.

cheers,
Santosh

[mayana]

anyone with experiences can share please

[Kelvin]

Hi Mayana,

I am not experienced in this, however, please read this "91. An applicant’s total earnings from several sources of work, including salaried employment and self-employed activities, can be included in the overall total earnings claimed.", it is written in the paragraph 91 in "Tier 1 (General) of the Points Based System – Policy Guidance", if I've used the correct form for FLR.

Hi Santosh_katakam,

As long as I understand, there is no reason why you can't be qualified again under employed category, and for this, I don't think you need to show them extra 6 months contract from the time you apply onwards.

In old HSMP (FLR), (may be still in use now?), there were three categories, employed, independent contractor and self-employed, however, in this new PBS, you can't find the category of independent contractor.

Instead, the new PBS guidance writes "Contractors: If the applicant is a Contractor and is operating neither through their own company nor as an employee, they may provide the following: • An accountant’s letter confirming a breakdown of their gross and net earnings for the period claimed; and • Personal bank statements clearly highlighting all credit
payments made to their account from employment undertaken during the earnings period claimed." Here, I don't see the requirement of showing them next 6 months contract.

So, I don't think HO will classify you as an self-employed person if you merely do the Contractor jobs as described above. I believe it is just a way of proving all your earnings is genuine because some of the Contractors even don't have any formal payslip.

In your case, it is for sure you are acting more or less like a Contractor, however, there is one issue here: are you an "employed" Contractor ?

To my knowledge, an "employed" Contractor is another form of employment with the differences to a "normal sense" employee in service time (usually permanent) and the entitlement of enjoying company benefits, however, they do have one thing in common - both of them have service contract signed by both employee (as an individual) and the employer, which means, the contract is signed between your employer and you rather than your own limited company or your Sole Trader's business name.

In terms of this, I am not sure which situation you are in.

Having said, I have a few more words for you:

A. If you are an "employed" contractor, then there is no reason why you should go through the Transitional Arrangements because you can score 75 points in earnings section.

B. If you are not an "employed" contractor, then you must (have to) be the "self-employed" person, and the money you've earned (33K) can also help you to qualify - under the same earnings section.

C. To me, it doesn't matter if you are "self-employed" or "employed" as long as you can score yourself 75 points or more, well, in your case, have earned enough money (I should say).

Now, it comes my question - what makes you think that you have to go to the last section in the FLR, the Transitional Arrangement ?

[mayana]

Kevin,
Thank very much for your reply have read through paragraph 91 and i think it has answered my question i have never really taken time to read it ...


mayana

[farazfastian]

Hi Kelvin,

Me either didn't get the point why Santosh is going for Transitional Arranegements while he can still score 75 points. But i'm still not sure about the classfication of past earnings.

Like in my case, i'm doing contracting and i'm the single employee(director) of my limited company. I'm withdrawing 1k per month and rest i'm taking as quarterly dividends so which category you think i falls in? (please check my first response in this thread)

Basically I'm still confused which category should i apply under and what documents i need to show them.

Thanks

[mayana]

Hi Kelvin,

Me either didn't get the point why Santosh is going for Transitional Arranegements while he can still score 75 points. But i'm still not sure about the classfication of past earnings.

Like in my case, i'm doing contracting and i'm the single employee(director) of my limited company. I'm withdrawing 1k per month and rest i'm taking as quarterly dividends so which category you think i falls in? (please check my first response in this thread)

Basically I'm still confused which category should i apply under and what documents i need to show them.

Thanks

Faraz,
You are under self employement and you can read more about what combination of document you require if you refer to POLICY GUILDANCE NOTE Tier 1 General..paragraph 114 onwards...http://www.bia.homeoffice.gov.uk/siteco ... de.pdf...I hope this will help..

[Kelvin]

Hi Kelvin,

Me either didn't get the point why Santosh is going for Transitional Arranegements while he can still score 75 points. But i'm still not sure about the classfication of past earnings.

Like in my case, i'm doing contracting and i'm the single employee(director) of my limited company. I'm withdrawing 1k per month and rest i'm taking as quarterly dividends so which category you think i falls in? (please check my first response in this thread)

Basically I'm still confused which category should i apply under and what documents i need to show them.

Thanks

Hi farazfastian,

I agree with Mayana, you are more likely to be under the category of self-employed.

However, the point is, when you use the Tier-1 (General) form to fill the past earnings section, there isn't a special one which is designed for self-employed person. Instead, it requires you to list all the earnings from all the categories including employment, contracting and self-employed because it is aggregate. So, there isn't a question of which category you should apply in terms of how to fill the past earnings section.

But there is a question of which route (category) you will go under Transitional Arrangements, either as an self-employed or as a route to WP ?

Again, if you couldn't score yourself 75+, then you must and have to be under self-employed category before you can use Tier-1 (General) form to stay in Tier-1, otherwise, you would be picked up by WP form from your employer to apply under WP arrangements.

I hope this answers your question.

Kelvi

[farazfastian]

Kelvin,

Thanks for the reply, i understand what you've mentioned regarding Transitional Arrangements but again i'm not even thinking about TA because you need to look in to it if you can't score 75 points by yourself. Currently i'm scoring 100 points under Tier-1, the only problem i'm having is how to prove my earnings. In short, if you can't score 75 points then only you go towards TA as there's no criteria of points there it's just you either get WP or prove self employment.

Now coming back to prove my earnings, the thing that baffles me is in choosing the earning category.

Salaried employees with dividend payments

If you are paid through a combination of salary and dividends, the combination of documents outlined above will only be enough where both the salary and the dividend appear on both types of document provided.

Self-employed earnings within a business or company structure

If you have worked in a self-employed capacity through your own company structure and have chosen not to take regular salary payments but to retain those earnings within the company

As quoted above, i can't apply under first case as i'm having my own company and if i go for second option it's still confusing as i'm having my own business but i do take monthly salary 1k/month and rest as dividend and what it says that you've chosen not to take regular salary.

My question is simple, i'm doing contracting form past 12 months via my own limited company and taking salary+dividend being a director and sole share holder, so in order to prove my earnings for Tier-1 should i present my business or present myself and whatever i choose what kind of documents i need to show then?

Many Thanks

[santosh_katakam]

Hi Kelvin, mayanna and fara

thanks for all your replies. Actually i was bit concerned about my status.(employed/self-employed). I did confirm from HO that i am self-employed because i own a limited company and i am the director of my company. My only thought was if for some reason, HO didnt consider my points, i have to go under TA so inorder to prepare myself for the TA, i had all these questions. anyway Kelvin, your reply was crystal clear. thanks for that. I have to start applying for extension very soon now as i my visa is about to expire mid may.

thanks once again all of you guys.

cheers,
Santosh

[Kelvin]

Kelvin,

Thanks for the reply, i understand what you've mentioned regarding Transitional Arrangements but again i'm not even thinking about TA because you need to look in to it if you can't score 75 points by yourself. Currently i'm scoring 100 points under Tier-1, the only problem i'm having is how to prove my earnings. In short, if you can't score 75 points then only you go towards TA as there's no criteria of points there it's just you either get WP or prove self employment.

Now coming back to prove my earnings, the thing that baffles me is in choosing the earning category.

Salaried employees with dividend payments

If you are paid through a combination of salary and dividends, the combination of documents outlined above will only be enough where both the salary and the dividend appear on both types of document provided.

Self-employed earnings within a business or company structure

If you have worked in a self-employed capacity through your own company structure and have chosen not to take regular salary payments but to retain those earnings within the company

As quoted above, i can't apply under first case as i'm having my own company and if i go for second option it's still confusing as i'm having my own business but i do take monthly salary 1k/month and rest as dividend and what it says that you've chosen not to take regular salary.

My question is simple, i'm doing contracting form past 12 months via my own limited company and taking salary+dividend being a director and sole share holder, so in order to prove my earnings for Tier-1 should i present my business or present myself and whatever i choose what kind of documents i need to show then?

Many Thanks

It seems to me, your earnings includes:

1. Salaried earnings (1K/Month)
2. Dividend
3. Whatever the net profit left over of your business after above 1 and 2

Please refer to paragraph 109 in Tier-1 (General) guidance for the documents you need to present for Salaried Earnings and Dividend.

"109. Supporting documentation must show all the relevant payments claimed by the applicant. If earnings from a particular source have been paid in more than one way, two types of documentation must be provided in respect of each part of the payment claimed.

For example: An applicant has been paid for their salaried employment by means of a salary and a dividend. If the gross and net dividend payments are included on the applicant’s payslip, and can be corroborated by details of the net dividend payment on the applicant’s bank statements, the applicant could submit bank statements and payslips as supporting
evidence for both the salary and the dividend claimed. However, if the dividend details are not included on the payslips, separate dividend vouchers would also need to be supplied to corroborate the dividend payments (cross-referenced with the bank statements provided)."

Having said that, I do have a feeling of both a bit strange and a little complicated towards your case, which is the Net Profit from your limited company that will also form a part of your earnings. Correct me if I am wrong.

For example, your net profit for your company comes to a total of 50K at the end of the past 12 months, but you've taken 1K per month plus some dividends. And now, you still (in fact) want to claim the 50K as your total earnings rather than the figure after 1K salary and dividends so that you need to add everything up together, is my understanding correct here ?

And I also assume each time when you took 1K or dividend out of your company business account, they were all properly recorded as an expense of your business ?

If this is the case, then I believe - apart from the pay slip (if you do have one) or dividend voucher (if it isn't included in your pay slip), you need also to provide your company business account - no matter the ending net profit is zero or not because you may need to prove the sources of your salary and dividend to match those expenses claimed in your business account - which will be verified by a certified accountant anyway.

And for whatever case, I think you might be better off to find an accountant to do all those things for you, which I'm sure there must be one in your limited company.


Kelvin

[mayana]

farazfastian,
I have pasted the link and I hope this will answer your question read paragraph 91 to 114 http://www.ukba.homeoffice.gov.uk/sitec ... yguide.pdf

mayana

[farazfastian]

bang on kelvin, that's exactly my situation and yes i'm planning to show my company's total profit with full distribution of how much i've taken as salary/dividends. I'm going to show two piece of evidence both for my self and my company earning that includes following:

1) Payslips
2) Dividend vouchers
3) Personal Bank Account

4) Company Management Accounts
5) Accountant letter
6) Invoice explanation etc

The only thing worries me that whether it's all right or i'm exaggerating it unnecessarily. I did called home office today but they were not helpful they said its totally you who has to decide. I'm pretty sure my situation is not unique whoever do contracting via limited company would have face this situation the only thing i need is validation that i'm doing it right.

One more thing why it confuses me further that i do have the option of just showing my payslips/dividends to claim points but once again it's my own company so i'm not confident in doing it.

Many Thanks