Help/NTL application/suspended from work

[Tamaraz]

Hi everyone - I've been in the UK 15 years. I have my indefinite leave to remain through marriage. I've always worked and never had a problem. I started a new position October 23rd and after 3 weeks of work my employer asked for my passport to put me on payroll. They discovered my ILR stamp in my expired passport. (All these years I just carried old passport with stamp, and current passport, together). They have put me on suspended leave (no pay) until I get a "proof of application" for my residency card.

I have filled out the NTL application, the home office would have received it last Wednesday. (around November 22)....How long will it be until I receive "proof of application" - I also checked the part of the form that says I have never had biometric information - so my understanding is they will send me a barcode to get my biometrics done?

What do you all think of me being suspended without pay - an immigration attorney I spoke with said there was no need for this but my employer isn't budging -

THANKS - Its all been incredibly stressful - can someone also tell me - how were we meant to know about the changes in these rules?

Tamaraz

[ouflak1]

What do you all think of me being suspended without pay - an immigration attorney I spoke with said there was no need for this but my employer isn't budging -

It's not right and it's probably not strictly legal (discrimiination based on nationality), but the UK government is using these kind of tactics to force non-citizens to obtain BRPs. And as these scenarios have played out on these forums, it doesn't seem there is much practical recourse. Once you get everything sorted out, find another job making sure your former employer understands that you are leaving because of the way they've treated you and would presumably treat any other foreigner legally present and legally working in the country.

THANKS - Its all been incredibly stressful - can someone also tell me - how were we meant to know about the changes in these rules?

I really can't see how anybody who has obtained permanent residence would reasonably be expected to keep up with changes like this. For many people, that is the end of their immigration journey. There shouldn't be any need to keep one's finger on the pulse of immigration law changes once that stage is complete (unless you are an enthusiast like some of the volunteers on this forum).

Wish I could give you some direct concrete advice on how to move forward from here. I've seen moderators and other senior members suggest printing out the wording of the law and showing it to the employer. Worthy suggestions, but I've never seen it actually work. I suppose you could have your lawyer send them a nice letter explaining the law to them. Don't underestimate how effective that can be (I've seen it work to amazing effect in other non-immigration cases). It won't cost you much. If you go that route make sure:

• The letter is sent directly from the lawyer via recorded mail to the employer (not you delivering it).

• There is a timeline set for a response (something like seven days).

• The letter is directed to the HR department if possible.

[Tamaraz]

Thank you SO much Outflak1.....

The immigration attorney I consulted gave me some free legal advice, just by email, and I did send the email to my boss, who has shared it with HR - we are waiting for them to consider it. I wonder if it makes sense at this point to pay the lawyer to write and mail an official letter without me being in the middle? You are right Outflak I probably should have done it that way at the outset.

In terms of this site - where is my message showing? Under what forum? I found your response to me under "notifications" but I cant see my original post when I pull up the general immigration forum. I just joined today.

Again, THANKS!

Tamaraz

[ouflak1]

I wonder if it makes sense at this point to pay the lawyer to write and mail an official letter without me being in the middle?

Yeah that's the basic idea. Still situations like this can get awkward real fast. I'm not sure how carefully you want to play this. Then I think that they've just suspended you, indefinitely, without pay. The difference between that and just plain being let go is not much. And if you're like 99% plus percent of the people who post on this forum, you've got bills to pay (a small group of people who post here from time-to-time have obviously gamed the UK immigration system so that they don't have to worry about such things). I'd seriously consider just how valuable you are to this company from their perspective and your own. It seems to me, if you were really worth it to them, they'd be on your side. Just sayin'.

On a side note: Several of the UK's recent immigration policy changes/implementations have created a toxic environment for perfectly legal immigrants. It's really unfortunate, and a discredit to the UK government, that you and people like you find themselves in situations like this.

In terms of this site - where is my message showing? Under what forum? I found your response to me under "notifications" but I cant see my original post when I pull up the general immigration forum. I just joined today.

Atleast your notifications are working! (Mine work for PM's, but never for thread replies *sigh*) It's probably just a browser thing. Your message will appear in the thread to which it was posted. If it doesn't, try clearing your browser cache and refreshing.

[Tamaraz]

Outflak - I really appreciate your help and conversation - feel less alone!

I suppose one of the problems is - I was LOVING this job! I was with my former employer for 12 years, and leaving was a pretty big deal - a whole new life. And the 3 weeks on my new job - my team is tremendously supportive and my boss is trying to do everything under the sun to get me back into my position. Its the HR high-up folks who are not budging.

I really get the "toxic environment" thing - having lived here 15 years, married here, had my 2 children here, worked, paid my taxes, etc. - I cant believe I find myself in this situation.

Is there ANY way to track where the Home Office is with my application?

THANKS!

Tamaraz

[Tamaraz]

Hi Outflak - sorry me again - I'm wondering if theres a way to move this whole thread (my original post and all your answers) to the ILR forum? Im thinking some folks might have experience with time frames for this NTL application...

THANKS!

Tamaraz

[zimba]

You should demand the HR to perform a check via Employer Checking Service to prove you have indeed the right to work in the UK until you get your documents in order as getting NTL/BRP can take a while. That should be enough for them to let you work legally.

https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

[ouflak1]

You should demand the HR to perform a check via Employer Checking Service to prove you have indeed the right to work in the UK until you get your documents in order as getting NTL/BRP can take a while. That should be enough for them to let you work legally.

https://www.gov.uk/check-job-applicant-right-to-work

Better yet, the lawyer should demand it, and the feedback should be directed at the lawyer.

Is there ANY way to track where the Home Office is with my application?

Not that I'm aware, no.

I'm wondering if theres a way to move this whole thread (my original post and all your answers) to the ILR forum?

The mods can move it if they think it is on-topic. You can PM them or make a suggestion in the Commnets and discussion board.

[zimba]

Better yet, the lawyer should demand it, and the feedback should be directed at the lawyer.

I disagree with your comments above and do not think that intervention of a lawyer is necessary. If the employee was simply dismissed then there could have been a legal case. The employer has not discriminated against the employee as far as I can see and has followed the law.
ILR stickers cannot be used to prove the right of work in the UK and that it has been like that since 2014. It seems the HR just woken up to this reality. Employers must follow the law and demand employees to provide an acceptable evidence that they indeed have legal rights to work in the UK or else they have to perform the checks required with HO to confirm this if necessary to avoid a hefty civil penalty. This issue can be solved with a simple friendly communication with HR and Right to Work checks.

[bruteforce]

Once the ECS (Right to work check) comes as positive, they will have to pay for the period you were suspended as you will have legal right to work at all times.

[ouflak1]

Better yet, the lawyer should demand it, and the feedback should be directed at the lawyer.

I disagree with your comments above and do not think that intervention of a lawyer is necessary. If the employee was simply dismissed then there could have been a legal case.

That certainly is a broad shield for employers. In order to avoid getting sued, or even breaking the law outright, they just indefinitely suspend someone without pay. One hell of a loophole (that I suspect doesn't really exist as it would simply be to treacherous and obvious)

The employer has not (been) discriminated against the employee as far as I can see and has followed the law.

Explain any possibility that a British Citizen would be treated in such a fashion. (Keeping in mind these unfortunate folks.)

ILR stickers cannot be used to prove the right of work in the UK and that it has been like that since 2014.

Hence my point above about the toxic environment that has been created by recent rule changes. Do you really believe it is reasonable to expect that somebody who has finished their immigration journey at permanent residence, years or perhaps decades ago, should be keeping up with rule changes like this? Sorry, but I don't agree. The OP is right to feel how they feel about this situation. They shouldn't need a lawyer at all. Their employer should be pushing back with the obvious point, "How can somebody who has been legally working in the country (and for us), and has provided sufficient evidence that they can do so indefinitely, suddenly not be legally working in the country?" I can sense the OP's frustration on this matter. It's palpable and hard not to empathize.

It seems the HR just woken up to this reality. Employers must follow the law and demand employees to provide an acceptable evidence that they indeed have legal rights to work in the UK

• 1. This has always been the law.

• 2. The OP has already done this in accordance with the law years ago.

or else they have to perform the checks required with HO to confirm this if necessary to avoid a hefty civil penalty.

A hefty civil penaly for employing somebody who is legally allowed to reside and work without restriction in the UK? I don't think so....

This issue can be solved with a simple friendly communication with HR and Right to Work checks.

And in fairness to your point, I admit that I don't read every thread on this forum. It's entirely possible that I've missed the thread where that actually worked. But I've read several threads where that kind of friendly common sense approach didn't work.

[Tamaraz]

Hi everyone and thanks for all the feedback - simple right to work checks and friendly conversations are not working....I applied for my NTL and biometric letter, and received a response from the home office today, with my code...tomorrow I will go "do" the biometric machine thing...

I thought this letter from the home office might do the trick in getting me back to work but it hasn't - I think they want proof that my biometrics have been "done" my question - will the machine give me any proof? Do I have to wait for another letter from the home office?

To recap - was put on suspended leave, no pay, because it was discovered that my visa was stamped in my old passport; I had worked for 12 years, no problem, lecturing at a British university, and Im totally legal, but my new employer, after 3 weeks on the job, discovered this visa on passport thing and suspended me; I applied a few weeks ago with the NTL application to start the process of getting a residency card; the home office has responded sending me a biometric code thingy, so I can go to the machine tomorrow and get it done. I need some sort of "proof" - will the machine print out proof for me? My new employer still being fussy and funny about letting me back. Im on the verge of getting an immigration attorney to ask them to pay me for the weeks Ive been on suspended leave - as they never asked to see my passports last summer, when they hired me! If they had I could have sorted this during my notice period.

THANKS

[CR001]

See link below posted by moderator 'vinny' today.

general-uk-immigration-forum/failure-to ... 44654.html

[Tamaraz]

Thanks for this - helpful but I don't think it addresses my issue - I wasn't dismissed I was put on unpaid suspended leave...but its interesting nonetheless -

Does anyone know what I get from the "machine" when I do my biometrics? Does the machine actually issue something?

THANKS -

Tamaraz

[CR001]

Thanks for this - helpful but I don't think it addresses my issue - I wasn't dismissed I was put on unpaid suspended leave...but its interesting nonetheless -

Does anyone know what I get from the "machine" when I do my biometrics? Does the machine actually issue something?

THANKS -

Tamaraz

You don't get anything. You enrol your biometrics at the post office (fingerprints and photo) and they send it to HO to continue processing your application. Once processed and approved, you will be sent a biometric residence permit card.

[Tamaraz]

Thanks for that info! Do you know how long it usually takes the biometric card to be sent - please tell me its not 6 months!

[CR001]

Thanks for that info! Do you know how long it usually takes the biometric card to be sent - please tell me its not 6 months!

Only once your applicatuon is approved.

[ouflak1]

... I wasn't dismissed I was put on unpaid suspended leave...

I just don't believe this loophole exists. That would be so obvious a tactic for employers to exploit as to be legally absurd.

[Tamaraz]

Hi Outflak and others - Thank you again for all of your help - its been really good for me to just know you all exist and to get your perspectives...

I did my biometrics this morning....HR just phoned the Home Office and was told they can now do my "right to work" request...They were told it would take about 5 days for the Home Office to process their request...

Is there ANY reason under the sun I should be worried about the Home Office response? I only "just" did the biometrics - don't they need time to process things? But they told HR even though I only did my biometrics today, HR could still request proof of right to work....

Im really really really feeling worn out....

Tamaraz

[Wanderer]

Always get it in writing, people lie on the phone just to get rid of you!

[Tamaraz]

Hi everyone - apologies I just realized I'm posting about my particular situation on two threads - just my own confused state of mind!!!!! Sorry if I seem to be "over posting"

[CR001]

Please do keep any further posts in this topic rather than the 'for info' topic started by vinny in the link I provided.

[mellymel]

Hi Tamaraz,

Have you heard yet? I am stuck not being able to work after living in the UK for the past 20 years. I have just qualified as a midwife and am unable to start my new career as I am waiting for my BRP. I've applied in September... did your work agree to check with HO regarding your eligibility to work? I wonder if employers are supposed to by law, as otherwise they might be deemed as being obstructive?

I hope our journeys have a happy ending!