Rejection - Pl. Help -

[saseendra]

Hi dear friends

I have applied for HSMP recently and got a rejection this week. However, they said I can apply for a review within 28 days and I received the letter and documents only on January 31, 2005 after expiry of time limit. Anybody knows will they consider if I submit a review, I am just of 5 points to catch up the magic figure of 65 points. I have already sent a fax and email stating that I have received the documents after expiry of the time limit. Waiting for their reply. I am just giving below my details, if anybody can help, please help me out:

Deducted 150 pounds from my account on November 5, 2004.
HSMP letter dated 19th November, 2005.
Received documents and letter in India on January 31, 2005.

Academic Achievements - 25 points awarded
Akilled Partner - 10 points awarded
Work Exprience - 25 points.


I scored only 25 points. I claimed 35 points for work experience as Systems Manager. I have been working as Systems Manager since 1998. Prior to that I have 6 years admin expeirience which they did not csonidered as graduate level experience. But they awarded 25 points for my exp. as Systems Manager However, they said they did not consider it as senior level position. I can go for review within 28 days or a paid application. I am in dilemma now because I have receied the documents after expeiry of the time limit. Will they consider my application for a unpaid review ? Anybody could help me ? Anybody has any idea if I submit review is their any chance to get the approval ? I mean what is the chance of getting apporval under un paid review ?

Pl. help.

sb

[Cosmopol]

Sorry to hear this didn't work out. It's next to impossible for us to predict the chances of successful appeal, as it's way too individual. What's certain is that if you strongly believe that your experience as an admin was indeed of graduate level, and your experience as a Sys Mgr was indeed senior (managed any staff?), it's certainly worth resubmitting your app for review - with an explanation letter that you had no way of sending it earlier, and any pertinent and convincing explanations re seniority of your positions.

My feeling for how the system works is that they are unlikely to reverse the decision, so while it may be worth appealing, it also helps preparing for the second rejection scenario and thinking of what's next to do.

Good luck.

[Korben Dallas]

....

I would arrange the appropriate reference letter clearly showing my managerial experience or achievements... Good luck!

[saseendra]

hi Cosmopol and Dallas,

Thanks for your suggestions.

I had sent a fax to home office reg. extending my time limit for submitting review application. They said they have sent me a letter by post in this regard and granted me a new time limit for submitting reveiw.

Thanks to both of your once again

[kumar78]

saseendra,

I think you are not the only one on this forum who is working as systems manager and got rejection as HO didnt recognize this designation as graduate level. I wonder why? You should go for the appeal without any fee if you had detailed Experience letters, Roles and Responsibilities Letter and organization chart in last application. Go for the paid appeal if you have to add additional documents, like organization chart etc.
plus What salary did you showed for you senior position, as it is an observation that senior IT people earn handsome amount.

[saseendra]

Dear Kumar

Thanks for your advice. I have already submitted my application for review. I think it will take a couple months time to get the result. Meanwhile, I am pllanning to reapply. Anybody know when is new fee comes in to effect. Is it from April 1, 05 onwards ?

Saseeendra

[f2k]

i think it will be from the 1st of April 2005,

[saseendra]

Thanks to everybody for their advice.

I have applied for free review and waiting for a reply. Do anybody knows how much time they normally take for free review cases.

[JhonnyECU]

Dear Saseendra and other HSMP applicants,

I am sorry to hear about your application being refused. I experienced the SAME awful experience yesterday. i am in shock and dont know exactly what to do. i am looking for ALL the possible help!!

From what i have researched so far, we have two options:

1. Appeal-

We can only "ask for the HSMP Team to REVIEW their decision ONLY if we explain why we feel our applications were wrongly refused and adress the reasons for refusal given on our decision letter".) only the original information provided will be reviewed.

THEIR email said that "A response will be issued to all other enquiries within fifhteen working days". It did NOT state a response duration for THIS kind of appeal enquiry (review). hmm...intriguing!

2. Make a NEW, FRESH application

This application should be VERY much more efficient, we have the possibility to add a MORE specific and better "Letter of Reference of Employment" which clearly states our MANAGERIAL experience or a more solid explanation of a this unclear "Significant Achievement"

In my case, it is funny enough:

A. they DIDNT consider my almost 3 years of international experience in USA, Germany and Spain as one of managerial experience. I held posts of Production Assistant or Editorial assistant in TV and Film productions. As a freelance, i was even directing some interviews and definitely provinding a resourceful support to WAY more experienced directors (including Taylor Hackford, Best Director nominee for this years' Oscars) and producers (MTV, ZDF, etc). If i were to compare THAT resposibilities and duties with the ones i would have in my Homeland Ecuador, i would be a senior position already.

B. They do NOT consider the fact that i won a NATIONAL short film festival back when i was 22 as Significant Achievement. I sent them one letter from the Ecuadorian House of Culture (most important cultural institution in my country) which states taht i have a NATIONAL recognition from my peers (other participants) and THIS institution. additionally, i have a letter from the Ecuadorian Minister of Culture, explaining the same.

BOTH institutions are the most important ones here to recognize some "artistic achievement"!!

should i make new lettes stating the fact that this national festival meant some important development for upocoming international film festivals? and that my work DID encourage young filmmakers to continue their work? In my field it is more common to make a film than to write a book, for obvious reasons! so what is up with that?

I think that HSMP ONLY consider this achievement if it has been of international recognition. contradictory, they said the opposite in their guidance notes.

i have better and more powerful letters of employemnte especially one form germany which i got in dec 04, almost 3 months after applying for the first time

then, i flew to london and even got a few interviews on a visitor visa. i got a JOB offer which i faxed to Sheffield on 21.12.04. and now, they copme to me and say i dont have the qualifications or experienced required and that my significant achievemnt is nothing???

i simply DO NOT understand what went wrong...coud any one PLEASE give me some lights to follow??

thanks so much for all the advice

if you prefer to write me directly to my email:
jhonnyzurita@hotmail.com

appreciate every piece of help i can get

yours,

jhonny

[saseendra]

Dear Moderators and Other Guys,

Thanks to everybody for your help. I have already submitted my free reveiw ? Anybody knows how much time free review take to process ? My appllication was received at HO on Febr 21, 05. I presume that it is going to take some time and the fee is also going to increase from Arpil 1, 05, It is a better idea to submit a paid review before that. Is it confirmed that the fee is going to go up from April 1 ?

Another thing is I am a PG diploma holder in computers in addition other three diploma / certificates in web development, systems administration, etc. with 6 years of Systems Manager experience. Can I apply for specialist category ? if so what are the supporting docuemnts required ?
Earlier I had applied for senior level category but not considered. I am planning to claim points for both the categories ? What is your opinion ?

Pl. help me get through this hurdle.

Thanks

[indian_in_uk]

Did you submit detailed Experience letters, Roles and Responsibilities Letter when you applied in november??

[saseendra]

Dear Indian in Uk,

Thanks for your quiry.

Yes, I did.

I claimed for 50 points for experience and subitted work experience certificates and responsibilities for all the three companies. They did not considered my present job (systems manager) as senior level. I presume they did not consider it as senior level because I did not show any managerial responsibilities in the letter. However, they accepted it as graduate level position and awarded 25 points.

Experience prior to this (two compnies) did not consider as graduate level and did not award any points at all. I have total of 12 years experience and I claimed for 50 points for experience.

Now I have to proove that both the position in the previous two companies are at graduate level and my present position (systems manager) is senior level. I have to fight for either 35 points or for 50 points.

I need your help to get through this hurdle.

[saseendra]

Hi Jhonny,

I had replied to your private message few days back. Hope you received. This is the content of the message :

"
What I feel is that lnow you have to say that what ever experience you have already submitted, you have to proove that they are graudate level jobs.

Some of the things you can do is :

Get a letter from the employer saying that it is a graduate level job.
Attach newspapers/website advertisement for the similar positions from UK and Equador, which demands a graduate qualifications.

Also attach copy of company rule book which says that the minimum qualification for the position is a degree.

Similarly you think, how you can produce some more docuements to proove that it is a graduate level. If you get a better idea please let me know.

All the best in your efforts to get HSMP approval.