Fiktionsbescheinigung to travel, do you need to have expired residence card with you?

[enwhyc]

Hi Everyone,

My wife received EU family member residence card valid for about 2 months (instead of 5 years) because her passport was soon to expire. We renewed the passport and applied for a new card immediately. We were told that to travel yo need the Fiktionsbescheinigung (paragraph 81.4) because the original residence card is attached to now old passport. We got the Fiktionsbescheinigung no problem and the lady at the immigration took the residence card away (it was still valid till march).

I have two questions.

1.I am sure you can enter Germany with this certificate. But I am wondering if the following sentence I see in many places (including some official docs) mean that you need to have the old residence card with you.

"Entry is possible in conjunction with an expired residence permit or visa."

We were serviced again by a person who initially made us apply for wrong permit and not the EU family member card, wanted to charge 67 euro for exchanging the card instead of 28.80. We had to point out that she is wrong every time. I wonder if she was not supposed to take the card away!? We cannot just trust that office anymore...

2. And finally, I would like to ask if the transit through Netherlands (Schengen) with Fiktionsbescheinigung (81.4, it says residency allowed, re-entry is allowed, EU member 5.1 permit) on the way to Germany to join me will be possible for my wife?
Thank you very much in advance.

[mgb]

Normally the Fiktionsbescheinigung is only valid together with the expired residence card/permit but your wife is still a family member of a eu citizen.
If the dutch don't like the Fiktionsbescheinigung they have to issue a visa for the family member of a eu citizen at the border. Proof about to be a family member is the Fiktionsbescheinigung.
Taking away a valid residence card is not so common. Normally the card get exchanged with the new one. Between application and issuing of the new card the person can use both passports. The valid one to prove the identity and the expired one to prove the card.

[enwhyc]

Thank you mgb, the thing is my wife will be traveling back alone to join me and she does not have the card anymore. Should we go back to the immigration to demand the card back? The person who did this to us is very incompetent and we are likely to see the same person again. Could you possibly point to rules about the issue of Fiktionsbescheinigung or extending the card that says the old card should not be taken away? Because only when we printed legislature about EU family member residence card (pointed by you) we were able to proceed with our residence card application
Thank you in advance.

[mgb]

I guess it is not worth the hassle to argue with the foreigner office.
The right of free movement is also valid if your wife want to join you.
If she carry Fiktionsbescheinigung, marriage certificate and receipt for the residence registration with her the dutch have to issue a visa if they don't like the Fiktionsbescheinigung alone.

[enwhyc]

We just got back from immigration and they give us the card back. Had to point to some documents that say "fiction certificate together with the card". mgb, thank you for answers.