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Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

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camsoft2000
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Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:57 pm

Hi, I hope someone can advise me or has any prior experience on this.

The details:
  • I'm a British UK citizen living in the UK.
  • My wife is a non-EU national living with me.
  • We've got a son who has dual UK/non-EU passports.
  • My wife has a UK residents permit and is on a spouse visa and lives and works in the UK
My understanding:

We're wanted to go on holiday for a week in Spain on doing my research I had believed that under the EU regulation Directive 2004/38/EC that my wife is entitled so the same freedoms of movement as I am as long as we travel together, either visa free with an EAA residents permit (which she doesn't have as UK don't give these out) or by applying for a schengen visa which should be free and fast.

What we've done:

We read that under the schengen rules that countries participating in this area have to accept direct visa applications via their respective consulates. As we're going to Spain everywhere I looked on the consulate website pointed me towards BLS Ltd who are a private company. We wanted to exercise our right to deal directly with the consulate so we followed the following instructions, quoted here:
Applicants who prefer to address their application directly to this Consulate, including spouses, partners, and family dependants of Spanish and EU citizens, should write a letter (phone calls, fax and e-mails will not be accepted) to this Consulate that can be sent by post or delivered in person. The applicant will be given an appointment on the first available date and in strict order of presentation. An appointment will usually be given within 2 weeks after you apply if there are appointment slots available. Please state clearly the purpose of your visit, dates of travel, contact details (full name, address, email and day time telephone number) and enclose only photocopies of your passport, UK residence visa, (marriage certificate, birth certificate, if applicable) and a stamped SAE. Please do not send or hand in any original documents until you asked to do so by the Visa Department.
Taken from: http://www.exteriores.gob.es/Consulados ... tment.aspx

We followed these instructions to the letter, and sent all the copied documents, filled in schengen visa application form and photos. We included a cover letter explaining that we were exercising our rights as covered by Directive 2004/38/EC.

My wife today receives a phone call from BLS Ltd asking her to apply for the visa through their website and that she would need to supply proof of flight tickets.

I was fuming, so I called BLS back myself and explained that we had applied directly to the consulate which is our right, and was told that the consulate had forwarded our documents to BLS Ltd. I was told that I should just apply for an appointment with BLS. My wife had very bad experience with outsourced visa centres in the past hence why we wanted to go direct.

Today I spoke to the Spanish consulate on the phone and was told that my wife needs to apply for the visa though the intermediary BLS, I explained that we are legally entitled to apply directly with the consulate and that we were following the rules as set out our their own website. The person at the consulate was quite rude and kept telling me it was not possible and that the website would need revising. I asked them if they were "refusing to process my wife's visa application" and they said I need to go through BLS.

What should I do, I believe my wife is legally entitled to be treated in the same way as an EU national, if it's my right to apply directly with the consulate, and it's our right not to need to provide travel documentation how can I proceed with the consulate refuse to honour this, aren't they breaking the law and rules of the schengen treaty?

mgb
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by mgb » Wed Jan 31, 2018 4:45 am

If you don't need the visa asap complain to Solvit.
http://ec.europa.eu/solvit/index_en.htm

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 6:33 am

I’ve done that but it could take up to 10 weeks and we are planning on going to Spain in first week of March for a friends wedding.

Can we apply for a Schengen visa from any other country as my wife would be applying based on her being married to an EU citizen, I know usually you have to apply via the consulate of the main country that you are visiting but as she doesn’t legally have to provide flight and hotel documents and I believe her visa can’t actually be refused I’m wondering if we can go to different consulate.

We going directly to Spain and are not visiting any other countries.

mgb
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by mgb » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:16 am

You could try to file a complaint via EMail to the the spanish general consulat and refer to their web page.

Normally the entry country into the the schengen area is responsible for a visa for the family member of a eu citizen.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:22 am

That's a good idea, I'll file a complaint there too.

secret.simon
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by secret.simon » Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:54 am

camsoft2000 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:57 pm
We wanted to exercise our right to deal directly with the consulate
camsoft2000 wrote:
Tue Jan 30, 2018 8:57 pm
we had applied directly to the consulate which is our right
I am unable to find any reference to this "right" in either Directive 2004/38/EC, Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or on the Your Europe website.

What is the source of this right?
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 11:09 am

I may have misunderstood the information from this article: https://eumovement.wordpress.com/2007/0 ... u-citizen/

But I had believed that as the visa has to be issued to my partner free of charge and quickly, that going through the intermediary was optional as I believe it's the consulate that actually issue the visas. The fact that the Spanish consulate's website presented details on how to apply for visa directly may have confirmed my assumption. It seems counter intuitive to say that family members should have the same freedoms of movement in Europe as I do and then ask them to pay processing fees for the privilege.

dan1988uk
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by dan1988uk » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:04 pm

Visa should be issued free of charge, quickly and without any flight ticket, but some embassy don’t know anything about the directive, I suggest you to apply at the German embassy in London, I have spoken to them and it seems that they know about family members of EU citizens.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:27 pm

You think we’ll have any issue getting Visa from
German consulate and only visiting Spain. I mean technically they can’t refuse the visa but Spain border immigration could be fussy about it.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Wed Jan 31, 2018 2:48 pm

Harah!

After making a formal complaint to the Spanish Embassy over email I just got back the following reply:
Thank you for your email.

We have looked into this incident and we believe there could be a misunderstanding.
Your wife has an appointment at our Visa Application Centre BLS International, which is processing all Schengen visa applications, but it does not mean that she cannot choose to lodge her application at this Consulate.

As per your request, the appointment at this Consulate is booked on Tuesday, 6th of February at 12pm.

Please accept our apologies for the inconvenience this incident may have caused you.
I'm not sure it was a misunderstanding, I think they are responding to the fact that I reported it to EU SOLVIT, but regardless seems we've finally got the appointment directly with the consulate and without having to go through the intermediary.

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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by mgb » Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:48 am

secret.simon wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:54 am

I am unable to find any reference to this "right" in either Directive 2004/38/EC, Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or on the Your Europe website.

What is the source of this right?
As a starting point Visa handbook from the EU commission C(2010) 1620 part III section 3.2 Service fee in case of outsourcing of the collection of applications.
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites ... ted_en.pdf

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 5:40 am

Thanks so much I’m sure I read it somewhere but couldn’t find the reference.

I’ve quoted it here:

3.2. Service fee in case of outsourcing of the collection of applications
As family members should not pay any fee when submitting the application, they cannot be obliged to obtain an appointment via a premium call line or via an external provider whose services are charged to the applicant. Family members must be allowed to lodge their application directly at the consulate without any costs. However, if family members decide not to make use of their right to lodge their application directly at the consulate but to use the extra services, they should pay for these services.
If an appointment system is nevertheless in place, separate call lines (at ordinary local tariff) to the consulate should be put at the disposal of family members respecting comparable standards to those of "premium lines", i.e. the availability of such lines should be of standards comparable to those in place for other categories of applicants and an appointment must be allocated without delay.

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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 2:35 pm

So we’ve got our appointment with the consulate but they are asking for proof of flights. We just got this reply:

“We require one way flight booking to the country of destination only, as a proof as you are travelling together and treat a visa application as a EU family member visa, accordingly to the current regulation . Names of both travellers have to appear in the booking. “

Is this correct, we’ve not booked tickets yet as we don’t want to until we’ve got the visa. Everything I’ve read says that we don’t need to provide proof, even the official Schengen application forms says not to fill in flight details of family member of EU national.

The consulate are saying they need a one way ticket to prove that we’ve flying together but it was my understanding that she is allowed access to any Schengen country if she is meeting her EU partner there or travelling together so surely proof of flight is optional. If I was meeting her there how would we be expected to prove that.

Anyone know where I stand I this legally so I can go back to consulate with proof that I don’t need to provide flight details?

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Thu Feb 01, 2018 3:12 pm

I read somewhere that all I need to do is provide written approval that they will be joining me?

mgb
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by mgb » Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:58 am

visa handbook part III section 3.6 Supporting documents
.
.
- the visa applicant accompanies or joins an EU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU citizen already resides in the host Member State or a confirmation that the EU citizen will travel to the host Member State)


Some embassies accept a declaration in writing from the eu citizen as confirmation.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 9:07 am

Does that mean it's at their discretion?

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:09 pm

mgb wrote:
Fri Feb 02, 2018 4:58 am
visa handbook part III section 3.6 Supporting documents
.
.
- the visa applicant accompanies or joins an EU citizen (e.g. a proof that the EU citizen already resides in the host Member State or a confirmation that the EU citizen will travel to the host Member State)


Some embassies accept a declaration in writing from the eu citizen as confirmation.
So having looked at that document there is paragraph directly below that states:
It is an established principle of EU law in the area of free movement that visa applicants have the right of choice of the documentary evidence by which they wish to prove that they are covered by the Directive (i.e. of the family link, dependency ...). Member States may, however, ask for specific documents (e.g. a marriage certificate as the means of proving the existence of marriage), but should not refuse other means of proof.
It's a little grey as it then goes on to state members states can ask for specific documents.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:16 pm

mgb wrote:
Thu Feb 01, 2018 4:48 am
secret.simon wrote:
Wed Jan 31, 2018 10:54 am

I am unable to find any reference to this "right" in either Directive 2004/38/EC, Council Regulation (EC) No 539/2001 or on the Your Europe website.

What is the source of this right?
As a starting point Visa handbook from the EU commission C(2010) 1620 part III section 3.2 Service fee in case of outsourcing of the collection of applications.
https://ec.europa.eu/home-affairs/sites ... ted_en.pdf
Just for reference also here: http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:en:PDF

Section 2.2.1:
... Member States may use premium call lines or services of an external company to set up an appointment but must offer the possibility of direct access to the consulate to third country family members.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Fri Feb 02, 2018 2:18 pm

2.2.1 of http://eur-lex.europa.eu/LexUriServ/Lex ... FIN:en:PDF
As the right to be issued with an entry visa is derived from the family link with the EU citizen, Member States may require only the presentation of a valid passport and evidence of the family link20 (and also dependency, serious health grounds, durability of partnerships, where applicable). No additional documents, such as a proof of accommodation, sufficient resources, an invitation letter or return ticket, can be required.

camsoft2000
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by camsoft2000 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:02 am

Just to keep this thread up-to-date, after emailing the consulate again stating the right to apply for visa without proof of flights and offering to write a letter of confirmation that my wife will be travelling with me I got this reply this morning:
We will accept the letter stating that you are travelling together with your wife or that she will join you in Spain.
This is good news, after an awful lot of fighting for our rights they are agreed to all our terms. It's shame that you have to go this far to exercise rights and they should know better but I think they just play hardball expecting most people to roll over.

While I didn't really need to keep pursuing this I felt it was our right to do so and and helpful guide for anyone else wondering if they have the right to do the same.

My wife has her appointment tomorrow, I will keep this post up-to-date, hopefully the visa will be issued without any more trouble.

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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by Farangmac295 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:00 am

Hi. I am also a UK/EU citizen with a Non-EU wife. We recently applied for a 90 day multi entry Schengen visa through the VFS Italy in Bangkok.
My wife provided all the necessary documents in support of her application but was only given a single entry 18 day visa?? Is it my understanding that she should automatically receive the 90 day multi entry as requested because she is legally married (original marriage certificate and translation was provided) to me a EU citizen.
Granted I should have done my homework a little more on these Schengen visa''s as I am hearing of a lot of problems when people apply through certain Member states (cough cough Italy). The only reason we applied through the Italy VFS for the Schengen visa is because my wife's best friend lives in Italy and is married to a Italian/EU citizen and we thought a letter of invitation from them would help with her application.'

Caravel88
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Re: Non-EU Partner of UK citizen schengen visa application problems

Post by Caravel88 » Thu Jun 07, 2018 8:01 am

It is not automatic unfortunately.
They do whatever they wish.

But this is not a limiting factor to your length of stay.
As long as you are together, you can stay 90 days unconditionally.
Farangmac295 wrote:
Thu Jun 07, 2018 4:00 am
Hi. I am also a UK/EU citizen with a Non-EU wife. We recently applied for a 90 day multi entry Schengen visa through the VFS Italy in Bangkok.
My wife provided all the necessary documents in support of her application but was only given a single entry 18 day visa?? Is it my understanding that she should automatically receive the 90 day multi entry as requested because she is legally married (original marriage certificate and translation was provided) to me a EU citizen.
Granted I should have done my homework a little more on these Schengen visa''s as I am hearing of a lot of problems when people apply through certain Member states (cough cough Italy). The only reason we applied through the Italy VFS for the Schengen visa is because my wife's best friend lives in Italy and is married to a Italian/EU citizen and we thought a letter of invitation from them would help with her application.'

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