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No it is not the same 'logic' or rules. Don't confuse Irish citizenship LAWS with the EU regulations or UK immigration Rules. They are different and completely separate to each other.does the same logic apply to the EU1...? - i.e. that it can be submitted with Belfast work and home addresses.
Simple answer: NO. NI is not in the State. You can submit EU1 but it will be refused!BillM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:27 pmI totally understand that, and with respect, I’m not confusing different laws, rules, or regulations.
I’m simply asking for a definition of “in the State” on the Irish version of EU1.
And I’m not nit-picking - you’ll be aware that in the original constitution of the Irish Free State, the “State” referred to the whole island of Ireland, and thus, in more modern times, the term “Republic of Ireland” has tended to be used when referring solely to the 26 counties.
Hence the confusion, and why I ask - can an Irish EU1 be submitted from a Northern Ireland home address...? Does anyone have any experience of doing so...?
After all, if someone is living and working in Belfast (on a U.K. spouse visa), but is seriously considering moving to the Republic after Brexit, isn’t the EU1 an obvious route now, whilst the U.K. remains in the EU...?
If you are unsure or don't trust what the people here have said (which is correct) why not ask them yourself? Email: eutreatyrights@justice.ie. You will get an answer very quickly. INIS are quite good at replying.BillM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 2:27 pmI totally understand that, and with respect, I’m not confusing different laws, rules, or regulations.
I’m simply asking for a definition of “in the State” on the Irish version of EU1.
And I’m not nit-picking - you’ll be aware that in the original constitution of the Irish Free State, the “State” referred to the whole island of Ireland, and thus, in more modern times, the term “Republic of Ireland” has tended to be used when referring solely to the 26 counties.
Hence the confusion, and why I ask - can an Irish EU1 be submitted from a Northern Ireland home address...? Does anyone have any experience of doing so...?
After all, if someone is living and working in Belfast (on a U.K. spouse visa), but is seriously considering moving to the Republic after Brexit, isn’t the EU1 an obvious route now, whilst the U.K. remains in the EU...?
If you check out the INIS website, you will see that, under the section regarding naturalization as an Irish citizen (as the spouse of an Irish citizen), it states:BillM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 1:13 pmThanks for your reply - yes - I understand that NI is part of UK, but...
You accept that the application for spouse citizenship specifically mentions "in the state", but also refers to the situation where the required three years have been spent in Northern Ireland...?
So if THAT form seems to, at least suggest, that NI might be "in the State", does the same logic apply to the EU1...? - i.e. that it can be submitted with Belfast work and home addresses.
Appreciate any further experience on that.
BillM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:26 pmThanks chaoclive, both for your insight and the links - I can indeed see that, within one document, one class of application refers to "the State", and another to "the island...".
As for why not exercise EU Rights in UK, the complication is that the EU citizen holds both British and Irish citizenship, and as I understand it, would need to renounce UK citizenship before applying to exercise EU Rights in UK, based on Irish citizenship.
The only other choice under the EEA regs are to exercise Surinder Singh (check it out on Google). Of course, the UK regs may be open to you (depending on income etc).BillM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 6:26 pmThanks chaoclive, both for your insight and the links - I can indeed see that, within one document, one class of application refers to "the State", and another to "the island...".
As for why not exercise EU Rights in UK, the complication is that the EU citizen holds both British and Irish citizenship, and as I understand it, would need to renounce UK citizenship before applying to exercise EU Rights in UK, based on Irish citizenship.
No disadvantages at all for me so far. The only thing might be Brexit-related issues if the rights of Irish people to stay in the UK change.BillM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 7:48 pmThanks again chaoclive for that.
The disadvantage in SS (if I'm correct...) is that you have to have lived together in another EU country outside of Ireland (your "now" state) and the UK (where you want EUTR).
Given that you've gone down the renunciation route, would you recommend it...? Are there any disadvantages...?
Appreciate you taking the trouble to share all of this...
Whilst the Irish EU1 doesn't ask about being an Irish citizen, if he's found out them he'll be screwed! The UK SHOULD refuse EUTR if the person hasn't moved from the UK to another EU state - that's EU law and should be upheld.BillM wrote: ↑Tue Feb 20, 2018 9:42 pmNot me - it’s a mate... They all say that, don’t they, but in this case it’s true LOL
Two problems - mate does have an Irish passport, fairly recently acquired, and with hindsight, maybe not the wisest move.
However, the Irish EU1 doesn’t ask if the EU citizen is also an Irish citizen (the U.K. one does ask about U.K. and will refuse EUTR if you are a U.K. citizen - some argue that’s unfair, and I believe it’s being appealed).
So whilst one MIGHT get EUTR in the Republic of Ireland, based on being a U.K. citizen, it seems fairly obvious now that one has to physically move south of the, albeit invisible, border. That’s difficult (but not impossible) if both home and work are currently in NI. Yes, they could move south, and I’d have thought that the unique Irish situation would legally allow a commute across that almost invisible border for work.
And yes of course you’re right about the EU1 processing times, but I had thought that the temporary process would allow them to stay until the EU1 was issued, which would then cover them until the qualifying period for Irish citizenship was up in about 18 months - unless of course transitional Brexit arrangements throw in a wobbler.
I really can’t see the Irish / British Common Travel Area ever changing though (at least not in my lifetime). The number of Irish living in the U.K. who would NEVER call themselves British (and indeed, vice versa) would make this logistically impossible (famous last words... LOL)
That is not so clear. Some eu countries have the opinion the McCarthy judgement is only applicable if no borders were crossed.