Tier 1 Graduate Entrepreneur - urgent questions!

[starlight1234]

Hi all!

I have several questions regarding the compliance with Tier GE visa.

First, about me: I have Tier GE visa endorsed by HEI (from August 20, 2017 - August 20, 2018). I have entered UK on September 3d, 2017 and got registered with police as required.

Questions:

1) Is there any restrictions how many businesses I can set up in UK? My initial business idea which was approved and endorsed by HEI was dormant for some time, however I have already set up another ltd for another business idea (talked to HEI, they are OK with it) and how suddenly found investor to my initial business idea. Can I set up a second ltd? So, my question is, in general, can I be engaged in several businesses? If yes, from which business I can claim points for extension or switching to Tier 1 E visa?

2) Is there a time limit within which I have to get incorporated/set up limited company? I do not remember, but I see somewhere that requirements are that you have to set up within 6 month of entering UK (or visa date)? I am not sure of this, may be it is related to Tier 1 E visa (not GE visa). If you could clarify, I would be grateful.

3) Investors can give me money via two different ways:

a) as an equity investor, they will invest 50K and have a stake at the company. The money will come from their bank account to the business account. Can I claim this 50 investment for points to swtich to Tier 1 E Visa?

b) one of the shareholders, will be appointed as a director, and he is considering to giving money to business as a shareholders' loan. In this case, can I claim point for 50K investment to swtich to Tier 1 Visa?

Thank you very much in advance!

Looking forward to your answers!

[marcnath]

1) Is there any restrictions how many businesses I can set up in UK? My initial business idea which was approved and endorsed by HEI was dormant for some time, however I have already set up another ltd for another business idea (talked to HEI, they are OK with it) and how suddenly found investor to my initial business idea. Can I set up a second ltd? So, my question is, in general, can I be engaged in several businesses? If yes, from which business I can claim points for extension or switching to Tier 1 E visa?

Yes, you can do as many businesses as you like. You can claim points for any or all of them.

2) Is there a time limit within which I have to get incorporated/set up limited company? I do not remember, but I see somewhere that requirements are that you have to set up within 6 month of entering UK (or visa date)? I am not sure of this, may be it is related to Tier 1 E visa (not GE visa). If you could clarify, I would be grateful.

Yes, it is 8 months now.

3) Investors can give me money via two different ways:

a) as an equity investor, they will invest 50K and have a stake at the company. The money will come from their bank account to the business account. Can I claim this 50 investment for points to swtich to Tier 1 E Visa?

b) one of the shareholders, will be appointed as a director, and he is considering to giving money to business as a shareholders' loan. In this case, can I claim point for 50K investment to swtich to Tier 1 Visa?

Money invested by an investor cannot be used to claim points as YOUR INVESTEMENT. It can be either shares or director loan - but both of them must be in your name, not your investors

[starlight1234]

Thanks marcnath for your response!!! appreciate that!

starlight1234 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:22 pm
2) Is there a time limit within which I have to get incorporated/set up limited company? I do not remember, but I see somewhere that requirements are that you have to set up within 6 month of entering UK (or visa date)? I am not sure of this, may be it is related to Tier 1 E visa (not GE visa). If you could clarify, I would be grateful.

Yes, it is 8 months now.

"Yes" you mean the time limit rule applies only for Tier 1 E visa (not Tier 1 GE visa)? Can you clarify this please? I am on Tier 1 GE visa, and it is my 7th month in UK, I have not set up ltd yet, seems like I should do it soon.

When rule have changed from 6 month to 8 month?

Thank you!

[marcnath]

Thanks marcnath for your response!!! appreciate that!

starlight1234 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 25, 2018 10:22 pm
2) Is there a time limit within which I have to get incorporated/set up limited company? I do not remember, but I see somewhere that requirements are that you have to set up within 6 month of entering UK (or visa date)? I am not sure of this, may be it is related to Tier 1 E visa (not GE visa). If you could clarify, I would be grateful.

Yes, it is 8 months now.

Yes, you mean the time limit rule applies only for Tier 1 E visa (not Tier 1 GE visa)? I am on Tier 1 GE visa, and it is my 7th month in UK, I have not set up ltd yet, seems like I should do it soon.

When rule changed from 6 month to 8 month?

Thank you!

Yes, time limit is for T1e, not t1ge. There is no need to actually set up a business as. T1ge holder.
The 6 month to 8 was in January. It is a technical change- HO needed registration in 6 months but was accepting documents dated within 8 months- so they just made it easier and changed both to 8 months

[seasky]

Money invested by an investor cannot be used to claim points as YOUR INVESTEMENT. It can be either shares or director loan - but both of them must be in your name, not your investors

This is not how it worked for me, I did not invest my own money (except a huge amount of sweat equity). Angel and VC investors invested in my company and received shares (as did I for being the founder or to be precise I founded the company owned all the shares and then issued new shares to investors along with their investment)

It's been a while since initial application but I think I had letter from investor that they will invest in my name or something like that and that I have the right to invest the money.

SO how does £50K route work is that not a VC fund investing in entrepreneurs idea??

(if all this is different because of GE then fuhgeddaboudit)

[marcnath]

Money invested by an investor cannot be used to claim points as YOUR INVESTEMENT. It can be either shares or director loan - but both of them must be in your name, not your investors

This is not how it worked for me, I did not invest my own money (except a huge amount of sweat equity). Angel and VC investors invested in my company and received shares (as did I for being the founder or to be precise I founded the company owned all the shares and then issued new shares to investors along with their investment)

It's been a while since initial application but I think I had letter from investor that they will invest in my name or something like that and that I have the right to invest the money.

SO how does £50K route work is that not a VC fund investing in entrepreneurs idea??

(if all this is different because of GE then fuhgeddaboudit)

That is interesting. Part of the T1E objective is to bring in foreign investment.
The immigration rules are now very clear that the accounts need to show your name against the investment. That will be tough to meet with a normal investor. How did you meet that requirement or was your extension before that came to be in place ?
There is an exceptions that I did not mention since I did not think it was applicable in this case. It can be in the name of the investor if it accompanied by a letter from the Department for International Trade, confirming that the investment was made as a result of the entrepreneur securing the investment.

[seasky]

Money invested by an investor cannot be used to claim points as YOUR INVESTEMENT. It can be either shares or director loan - but both of them must be in your name, not your investors

This is not how it worked for me, I did not invest my own money (except a huge amount of sweat equity). Angel and VC investors invested in my company and received shares (as did I for being the founder or to be precise I founded the company owned all the shares and then issued new shares to investors along with their investment)

It's been a while since initial application but I think I had letter from investor that they will invest in my name or something like that and that I have the right to invest the money.

SO how does £50K route work is that not a VC fund investing in entrepreneurs idea??

(if all this is different because of GE then fuhgeddaboudit)

That is interesting. Part of the T1E objective is to bring in foreign investment.
The immigration rules are now very clear that the accounts need to show your name against the investment. That will be tough to meet with a normal investor. How did you meet that requirement or was your extension before that came to be in place ?
There is an exceptions that I did not mention since I did not think it was applicable in this case. It can be in the name of the investor if it accompanied by a letter from the Department for International Trade, confirming that the investment was made as a result of the entrepreneur securing the investment.

I thought the main objective of T1E is to setup businesses by talented migrant entrepreneurs where said businesses contribute positively to UK PLC? In fact they mention that they don't want this to be an "investor lite" route.

Anyway from the guidance for investment points:

You have invested, or have caused investment to be made by one or more third parties, at least £200,000 (or £50,000 if you were awarded points for £50,000 funding or investment in your last grant of leave) in cash directly into one or more UK businesses.

[marcnath]

I thought the main objective of T1E is to setup businesses by talented migrant entrepreneurs where said businesses contribute positively to UK PLC? In fact they mention that they don't want this to be an "investor lite" route.

Anyway from the guidance for investment points:

You have invested, or have caused investment to be made by one or more third parties, at least £200,000 (or £50,000 if you were awarded points for £50,000 funding or investment in your last grant of leave) in cash directly into one or more UK businesses.

You need to look into the details and not just the top line.

The guidance specifies the evidence requiremetns
(c) The audited or unaudited accounts must show the investment in money made directly in the business by one or more of the following:
(i) you, in your own name,
(ii) one or more seed funding competitions or UK or Devolved Government Departments, as set out in the points table for Table B: Initial Applications, and the accounts must be accompanied by a letter from the source, confirming that the investment was made on your behalf, or
(iii) a third party other than those in (ii), and the accounts must be accompanied by a letter from the Department for International Trade, confirming that the investment was made as a result of you securing the investment.

So, yes, it can be third party investments but with some strict criteria for that.

Agree, investment money is not the primary objective for T1E - if so, they would not even have a 50K route.

[seasky]

1. I don't understand the 50K route. All these cases where T1es invested themselves, wern't they supposed to have been invested by a "VC" or DIT funding competition? Shouldn't they be more "advanced" business e.g. tech vs restaurant? (I think the concept of of 50K for is actually wonderful for the younger grads giving a chance at entrepreneurship, just didn't understand the above)

2. I don't know if (iii) was in guidance when I did extension late 2014. A letter from DIT would have been easily attainable if it was. why DIT? what if the business is not International trade? (why not BEIS too). FWIW I had already invested (by others) over 10X the minima at said point so maybe they didn't care. (hope you don't consider me mentioning that "condescending" I am still on "thin ice" for that.... no worries my ego will survive )

[marcnath]

1. I don't understand the 50K route. All these cases where T1es invested themselves, wern't they supposed to have been invested by a "VC" or DIT funding competition? Shouldn't they be more "advanced" business e.g. tech vs restaurant? (I think the concept of of 50K for is actually wonderful for the younger grads giving a chance at entrepreneurship, just didn't understand the above)

Earlier, anyone with a PSW visa could go on the 50K route. I suspect many of these cases are still from that time.

2. I don't know if (iii) was in guidance when I did extension late 2014. A letter from DIT would have been easily attainable if it was. why DIT? what if the business is not International trade? (why not BEIS too). FWIW I had already invested (by others) over 10X the minima at said point so maybe they didn't care. (hope you don't consider me mentioning that "condescending" I am still on "thin ice" for that.... no worries my ego will survive )

No, (iii) is relatively new.
When did you get your 1st extension ?
Even in the 2014 guidance, you had the following:

Audited or unaudited accounts must be prepared and signed off in accordance with statutory requirements and must clearly show the investment in money made directly by you, in your own name, or on your behalf and showing your name. You should indicate where this is shown on your evidence. If you have invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in your name as it appears on your application.

So, if you did not invest the money yourself, how did you meet this requirement.

[seasky]

1. I don't understand the 50K route. All these cases where T1es invested themselves, wern't they supposed to have been invested by a "VC" or DIT funding competition? Shouldn't they be more "advanced" business e.g. tech vs restaurant? (I think the concept of of 50K for is actually wonderful for the younger grads giving a chance at entrepreneurship, just didn't understand the above)

Earlier, anyone with a PSW visa could go on the 50K route. I suspect many of these cases are still from that time.

2. I don't know if (iii) was in guidance when I did extension late 2014. A letter from DIT would have been easily attainable if it was. why DIT? what if the business is not International trade? (why not BEIS too). FWIW I had already invested (by others) over 10X the minima at said point so maybe they didn't care. (hope you don't consider me mentioning that "condescending" I am still on "thin ice" for that.... no worries my ego will survive )

No, (iii) is relatively new.
When did you get your 1st extension ?
Even in the 2014 guidance, you had the following:

Audited or unaudited accounts must be prepared and signed off in accordance with statutory requirements and must clearly show the investment in money made directly by you, in your own name, or on your behalf and showing your name. You should indicate where this is shown on your evidence. If you have invested by way of share capital the business accounts must show the shareholders, the amount and value of the shares (on the date of purchase) in your name as it appears on your application.

So, if you did not invest the money yourself, how did you meet this requirement.

I don't remember the details. I certainly would not have a problem for investors attesting that they invested in my behalf with my lawyer/accountant. They certainly invested believing that I would grow the company and grow the value of their investment. Again typical angel to VC tech investment as done in Silicon Valley, Tel Aviv and all across UK (mostly London). I know plenty of these entrepreneurs as originally Migrants (some with amazing success who later invested in me)

Today such tech entrepreneur CANNOT use T1e route (assuming as it always the case in tech that they need to travel often) the system is broken (this is not to say there is anything wrong with setting up non-tech bushiness, though many of them need to travel too)

[starlight1234]

Hi all gurus!

I am glad that my initial post caused soo much discussion

Some short situation:
My friend who was going to change from Tier 1 GE to Tier 1 E was rejected visa on the basis that he was not a sole director to the business he set up

My next question is: when setting up company, does it mean I have to be a sole director in order not to get rejected if I decide to change to Tier 1 E visa from Tier 1 GE visa?

please help.

[marcnath]

Hi all gurus!

I am glad that my initial post caused soo much discussion

Some short situation:
My friend who was going to change from Tier 1 GE to Tier 1 E was rejected visa on the basis that he was not a sole director to the business he set up

My next question is: when setting up company, does it mean I have to be a sole director in order not to get rejected if I decide to change to Tier 1 E visa from Tier 1 GE visa?

please help.

That does not seem correct - there is no requirement to be a sole director. If you can share the actual refusal text, it would be easier to figure that out.