Judicial review while the case is pending with HO

[CULLINAN]

Correction: I think I would qualify if employee B,C combined for 1FT. Please confirm. I just realised the above post and could not edit it any longer.

[marcnath]

@marcnath
I am sorry if I am asking a similar question again but just want to double check please can you confirm:
I got extension approved April 2018
My ILR is due Dec 2018
If I apply extension on 3rd Jan 2019
Initial visa granted Jan 2014

Employee A FT: 1st Jan 2018 - 31st Dec 2018 (existing) (12 months)
Employee B FT: 1st May 2018 - 31st Dec 2018 (8 months)
Employee C FT: 1st Sep 2018 - 31st Dec 2018 (4 months)
Employee D FT: 1st Sep 2018 - 31st Dec 2018 ( 4 months)

Question: If my business expands/allows and I can create the above mentioned jobs, do i qualify for the 24 months job creation for ILR. Can i combine employee B,C,D for 1FT in the above order. Please confirm.
Many thanks

Yes and No.

Yes, you qualify for 24 months job creation.
No, you can't combine B,C,D for 1 FT job. But you don't have to combine as you are pre=April 2014

[CULLINAN]

Thank You for your quick reply.
Making things simpler I just have to look for 24 months to qualify right? In that case employee A,B,C are enough right? No need for D?

[marcnath]

Thank You for your quick reply.
Making things simpler I just have to look for 24 months to qualify right? In that case employee A,B,C are enough right? No need for D?

Correct

[CULLINAN]

Thank You for your quick reply.
Making things simpler I just have to look for 24 months to qualify right? In that case employee A,B,C are enough right? No need for D?

Correct

Thank you

[CULLINAN]

@marcnath @zimba88

I remember I posted the following in some other post few months back but then I could not say with proof. Now my visa extension is approved I will try to explain again:

I calculated the hours in the following way:

Although my employee’s salary slips were made monthly, my accountant told me there are atleast 4 months in a year where you take 5 paychecks. So following that principle 8 months had 120 hours a month (30 hours a week) and 4 months had 150 hours a month (30 hours a week BUT Multiply by 5 paychecks instead of 4). In total 1560 hours a year.

Question: My visa extension is approved following the above procedure. However I read in multiple posts that HO does not consider more than 30 hours a week or 120 hours a month. But I had 150 hours in 4 months.

Was I lucky or it is one of the right ways also? I just do not want to do the same for my ILR if that was the wrong approach.

Please advise.

[marcnath]

@marcnath @zimba88

I remember I posted the following in some other post few months back but then I could not say with proof. Now my visa extension is approved I will try to explain again:

I calculated the hours in the following way:

Although my employee’s salary slips were made monthly, my accountant told me there are atleast 4 months in a year where you take 5 paychecks. So following that principle 8 months had 120 hours a month (30 hours a week) and 4 months had 150 hours a month (30 hours a week BUT Multiply by 5 paychecks instead of 4). In total 1560 hours a year.

Question: My visa extension is approved following the above procedure. However I read in multiple posts that HO does not consider more than 30 hours a week or 120 hours a month. But I had 150 hours in 4 months.

Was I lucky or it is one of the right ways also? I just do not want to do the same for my ILR if that was the wrong approach.

Please advise.

First, congratulations !

I don't understand the highlighted part. Are you saying that you pay your employees weekly ? How is paycheck different from payslips.

Anyway, I don't think that had anything to do with your approval. It is much more likely that after an AR overturned a refusal based on the argument that 120 hours were stated in the guidelines, they decided to allow that for applications made before they updated the guidelines this month.

Now that they have removed any reference to 120 hours/month from the guidelines, you can't depend on that.

But if you can show somehow that in a month with 30 days, you are only paying for 4 weeks and in months with 31 days, you are paying for 35 days, (or example by showing the actual dates paid for in the payslip) then yes you will be able to justify this 120 hrs and 150 hrs. This is because there are no monthly hours specified anywhere, just weekly hours of 30 hrs/week.

[CULLINAN]

@marcnath @zimba88

I remember I posted the following in some other post few months back but then I could not say with proof. Now my visa extension is approved I will try to explain again:

I calculated the hours in the following way:

Although my employee’s salary slips were made monthly, my accountant told me there are atleast 4 months in a year where you take 5 paychecks. So following that principle 8 months had 120 hours a month (30 hours a week) and 4 months had 150 hours a month (30 hours a week BUT Multiply by 5 paychecks instead of 4). In total 1560 hours a year.

Question: My visa extension is approved following the above procedure. However I read in multiple posts that HO does not consider more than 30 hours a week or 120 hours a month. But I had 150 hours in 4 months.

Was I lucky or it is one of the right ways also? I just do not want to do the same for my ILR if that was the wrong approach.

Please advise.

First, congratulations !

I don't understand the highlighted part. Are you saying that you pay your employees weekly ? How is paycheck different from payslips.

Anyway, I don't think that had anything to do with your approval. It is much more likely that after an AR overturned a refusal based on the argument that 120 hours were stated in the guidelines, they decided to allow that for applications made before they updated the guidelines this month.

Now that they have removed any reference to 120 hours/month from the guidelines, you can't depend on that.

But if you can show somehow that in a month with 30 days, you are only paying for 4 weeks and in months with 31 days, you are paying for 35 days, (or example by showing the actual dates paid for in the payslip) then yes you will be able to justify this 120 hrs and 150 hrs. This is because there are no monthly hours specified anywhere, just weekly hours of 30 hrs/week.

Thank you for your reply and wish.

No I do not pay my employees weekly. They were paid monthly. However, when the payslips were generated 8 months had 120 hours and 4 months had 150 hours.
I was told that this is how the payslips are generated for someone who works FT as there are 4 months in a year when you have 5 payckecks rather 4. (or paid for 5 weeks instead - months having 5 Fridays)

“If you get paid weekly, there are several times a year that you'll take home five paychecks in a month instead of the usual four. The 52 weeks in a year don't get parceled out evenly between the different months” Google

So in 2018, in march, june, august, november ( months having 5 fridays) will have 150 hours and al others have 120 hours which makes 1560/ year. (same procedure i followed for 2016 when i applied)

RATHER than following 130 hours every month that is 1560/ year also.

I am not sure if I am able to explain it properly but this is how I calculated hours in my extension and had no problems.

[kaps84]

If you pay an employee, monthly, say £1200 / month (irrespective on the month and year), based on £14400 salary a year for 30 hours per week employment contract.

and you tell HO (in job table) the hourly rate (say a minimum 7.83 - National Living Wage) and share the payslips and RTI.

Just to emphasize: Hourly rate = pay per hour.

First Method:
What you have to pay at least - You pay 7.83 per hour X 30 hours/week X 52 weeks/year = £12214.8 (pay/year) --> (Yeah! you pay more than the minimum actually), Isn't it?

Second Method:
Yearly salary / 52 weeks = 14400 / 52 = £ 276.92 (pay per week) / hourly rate (pay per hour) (that you tell HO) = 35.37 hours / week (Yeah, your employees have worked more than 30 hours/week)

BUT, Have you told HO about the yearly salary? (may be NOT, since you may not have shared the employment contracts or mentioned the yearly salary elsewhere in your documents sent to HO), But to my assumption, they will still add up the salary, if going by second method.

Can there be a third method (based on annual / monthly salary?)

Maybe the HO will think that going by our policy:
An employee should work 30 hours/week and should earn the hourly rate (pay / hour), given by the employer) than:

30 hours / week * 7.83 pay / hour = 234.9 ( pay / week). (that, this employee should earn atleast 234.9 per week)

HO can further, say, divide all the payslips by pay / week (£1200 / 234.9) to calculate the weeks worked that should add upto atleast 52 weeks of work (which it will). (£1200 / 234.9 = 5.1085 weeks / month) = 5.1085 * 12 = 61.3 weeks in a year.

If you pass the above tests (for monthly payments), than be assured that you are safe. - Just change the figures (monthly salary and/or hourly rate) for yourself and check!

[marcnath]

No I do not pay my employees weekly. They were paid monthly. However, when the payslips were generated 8 months had 120 hours and 4 months had 150 hours.
I was told that this is how the payslips are generated for someone who works FT as there are 4 months in a year when you have 5 payckecks rather 4. (or paid for 5 weeks instead - months having 5 Fridays)

I still don't understand this, but I am not expert on payroll. So, did you have different pay amounts on the different payslips ?

“If you get paid weekly, there are several times a year that you'll take home five paychecks in a month instead of the usual four. The 52 weeks in a year don't get parceled out evenly between the different months” Google

Not applicable to you as your employees are not getting paid weekly.

So in 2018, in march, june, august, november ( months having 5 fridays) will have 150 hours and al others have 120 hours which makes 1560/ year. (same procedure i followed for 2016 when i applied)

RATHER than following 130 hours every month that is 1560/ year also.

As I have tried to explain earlier, the total hours is immaterial.
The CW divides monthly pay by the hourly rate in your job table to get the hours per pay period. If that works out to be greater or equal to 30 hrs/week, then it is ok. Otherwise it will not be. That is the ONLY safe approach. If you want to risk it otherwise, entirely up to you. You may be lucky.

[CULLINAN]

No I do not pay my employees weekly. They were paid monthly. However, when the payslips were generated 8 months had 120 hours and 4 months had 150 hours.
I was told that this is how the payslips are generated for someone who works FT as there are 4 months in a year when you have 5 payckecks rather 4. (or paid for 5 weeks instead - months having 5 Fridays)

I still don't understand this, but I am not expert on payroll. So, did you have different pay amounts on the different payslips ?

Yes different amounts for payslips where it indicated 150 hours (for 4 month)

“If you get paid weekly, there are several times a year that you'll take home five paychecks in a month instead of the usual four. The 52 weeks in a year don't get parceled out evenly between the different months” Google

Not applicable to you as your employees are not getting paid weekly.

So in 2018, in march, june, august, november ( months having 5 fridays) will have 150 hours and al others have 120 hours which makes 1560/ year. (same procedure i followed for 2016 when i applied)

RATHER than following 130 hours every month that is 1560/ year also.

As I have tried to explain earlier, the total hours is immaterial.
The CW divides monthly pay by the hourly rate in your job table to get the hours per pay period. If that works out to be greater or equal to 30 hrs/week, then it is ok. Otherwise it will not be. That is the ONLY safe approach. If you want to risk it otherwise, entirely up to you. You may be lucky.

[CULLINAN]

If you pay an employee, monthly, say £1200 / month (irrespective on the month and year), based on £14400 salary a year for 30 hours per week employment contract.

and you tell HO (in job table) the hourly rate (say a minimum 7.83 - National Living Wage) and share the payslips and RTI.

Just to emphasize: Hourly rate = pay per hour.

First Method:
What you have to pay at least - You pay 7.83 per hour X 30 hours/week X 52 weeks/year = £12214.8 (pay/year) --> (Yeah! you pay more than the minimum actually), Isn't it?

Second Method:
Yearly salary / 52 weeks = 14400 / 52 = £ 276.92 (pay per week) / hourly rate (pay per hour) (that you tell HO) = 35.37 hours / week (Yeah, your employees have worked more than 30 hours/week)

BUT, Have you told HO about the yearly salary? (may be NOT, since you may not have shared the employment contracts or mentioned the yearly salary elsewhere in your documents sent to HO), But to my assumption, they will still add up the salary, if going by second method.

Can there be a third method (based on annual / monthly salary?)

Maybe the HO will think that going by our policy:
An employee should work 30 hours/week and should earn the hourly rate (pay / hour), given by the employer) than:

30 hours / week * 7.83 pay / hour = 234.9 ( pay / week). (that, this employee should earn atleast 234.9 per week)

HO can further, say, divide all the payslips by pay / week (£1200 / 234.9) to calculate the weeks worked that should add upto atleast 52 weeks of work (which it will). (£1200 / 234.9 = 5.1085 weeks / month) = 5.1085 * 12 = 61.3 weeks in a year.

If you pass the above tests (for monthly payments), than be assured that you are safe. - Just change the figures (monthly salary and/or hourly rate) for yourself and check!

Thank you for your reply.
Option 1
120 hours in 8 months
150 hours in 4 months (months having 5 fridays)
Total 1560 hours/year

Option 2:
120 hours per month but then to qualify 1560 hours you need 13 months rather than 12 months no?

Option 3: what most people follow
130 hours for 12 months. 1560hours/year

I followed option 1. Read on this forum that HO neglects anything over 120 hours a month. In that case they could have neglected my excess hours in months having 150 hours and I would be short of 120 hours but I was approved. So i was wondering if this option is also a correct approach.

[CULLINAN]

Thank you marcnath for your replies and valuable input always. I am still not sure if I was able to explain it properly though.

[marcnath]

Thank you marcnath for your replies and valuable input always. I am still not sure if I was able to explain it properly though.

There are two possible reasons why you got approved

1. HO accepted 120 hrs/month as FT based on the guidance and you had 12 months with >= 120 hrs. This is most probable reason, but will not be usable in future as HO updated the guidance document this month.
2. Your payslips clearly indicated that it was for 4 weeks of 5 week by stating the start date and end date to which a particular payslip applied. In this case, you would have met 52 weeks of 30 hrs/week.

[CULLINAN]

Thank you marcnath for your replies and valuable input always. I am still not sure if I was able to explain it properly though.

There are two possible reasons why you got approved

1. HO accepted 120 hrs/month as FT based on the guidance and you had 12 months with >= 120 hrs. This is most probable reason, but will not be usable in future as HO updated the guidance document this month.
2. Your payslips clearly indicated that it was for 4 weeks of 5 week by stating the start date and end date to which a particular payslip applied. In this case, you would have met 52 weeks of 30 hrs/week.

Thank you once again.
Apparently looks like 130 hours a month for 12 months is the safest best.
In that case can i amend my salary slips?

Jan 2018 - April 2018 is already made
Jan 2018 120 hours
Feb 2018 120 hours
March 2018 150 hours
April 2018 120 hours

Should i continue like this or rectify the payslips??

Thank you

[marcnath]

Thank you marcnath for your replies and valuable input always. I am still not sure if I was able to explain it properly though.

There are two possible reasons why you got approved

1. HO accepted 120 hrs/month as FT based on the guidance and you had 12 months with >= 120 hrs. This is most probable reason, but will not be usable in future as HO updated the guidance document this month.
2. Your payslips clearly indicated that it was for 4 weeks of 5 week by stating the start date and end date to which a particular payslip applied. In this case, you would have met 52 weeks of 30 hrs/week.

Thank you once again.
Apparently looks like 130 hours a month for 12 months is the safest best.
In that case can i amend my salary slips?

Jan 2018 - April 2018 is already made
Jan 2018 120 hours
Feb 2018 120 hours
March 2018 150 hours
April 2018 120 hours

Should i continue like this or rectify the payslips??

Thank you

Depends on what your payslips say.
Quite often, the payslip does specify the dates for which it is valid.
So, if the Jan payslip says 1/1 to 28/1, Feb says 29/1 to 25/2 and so on, then you are ok. You may need to explain it in the cover letter but HO can't reject it.
However, if the payslip does not give dates or states is as 1/1 to 31/1, 1/2 to 28/2 and so on, then you need to get it changed.

[CULLINAN]

Thank you marcnath for your replies and valuable input always. I am still not sure if I was able to explain it properly though.

There are two possible reasons why you got approved

1. HO accepted 120 hrs/month as FT based on the guidance and you had 12 months with >= 120 hrs. This is most probable reason, but will not be usable in future as HO updated the guidance document this month.
2. Your payslips clearly indicated that it was for 4 weeks of 5 week by stating the start date and end date to which a particular payslip applied. In this case, you would have met 52 weeks of 30 hrs/week.

Thank you once again.
Apparently looks like 130 hours a month for 12 months is the safest best.
In that case can i amend my salary slips?

Jan 2018 - April 2018 is already made
Jan 2018 120 hours
Feb 2018 120 hours
March 2018 150 hours
April 2018 120 hours

Should i continue like this or rectify the payslips??

Thank you

Depends on what your payslips say.
Quite often, the payslip does specify the dates for which it is valid.
So, if the Jan payslip says 1/1 to 28/1, Feb says 29/1 to 25/2 and so on, then you are ok. You may need to explain it in the cover letter but HO can't reject it.
However, if the payslip does not give dates or states is as 1/1 to 31/1, 1/2 to 28/2 and so on, then you need to get it changed.

Thank you

payslips only say this:

Pay Period
Pay Date
Pay Type Payment Method

not specific dates. Like for April 2018. It says pay period: April 2018
Pay date: 30/4/18 etc

What I remeber doing is that i sent payslips from Oct 2016 till 31st Nov 2016 as i applied in dec 2016. So maybe HO approved me on 120 hours * 13 pay slips/months that is 1560 hours or the way i did as mentioned above.
(Not sure)

I just recieved my BRP the date says valid till ** april 2020

[kaps84]

Big congratulations @tier11417 for your approval !!

[CULLINAN]

Big congratulations @tier11417 for your approval !!

Thank you

[CULLINAN]

Thank you marcnath for your replies and valuable input always. I am still not sure if I was able to explain it properly though.

There are two possible reasons why you got approved

1. HO accepted 120 hrs/month as FT based on the guidance and you had 12 months with >= 120 hrs. This is most probable reason, but will not be usable in future as HO updated the guidance document this month.
2. Your payslips clearly indicated that it was for 4 weeks of 5 week by stating the start date and end date to which a particular payslip applied. In this case, you would have met 52 weeks of 30 hrs/week.

Thank you once again.
Apparently looks like 130 hours a month for 12 months is the safest best.
In that case can i amend my salary slips?

Jan 2018 - April 2018 is already made
Jan 2018 120 hours
Feb 2018 120 hours
March 2018 150 hours
April 2018 120 hours

Should i continue like this or rectify the payslips??

Thank you

Depends on what your payslips say.
Quite often, the payslip does specify the dates for which it is valid.
So, if the Jan payslip says 1/1 to 28/1, Feb says 29/1 to 25/2 and so on, then you are ok. You may need to explain it in the cover letter but HO can't reject it.
However, if the payslip does not give dates or states is as 1/1 to 31/1, 1/2 to 28/2 and so on, then you need to get it changed.

you were right marcnath. I just noticed my accountant had provided an excel sheet document with break down of hours weeks and specific dafes along with payslips. Thank you

[CULLINAN]

Dear All Members,
@Marcnath @Zimba88

need your advice:

Re: changing company address from residential home address to virtual office address.

I researched about having a virtual office address or other options to move my company address. Actually virtual office suits my business needs better as its cost effective and according to the business model.

I am considering to have a virtual office close to where i live. I will have business address, mail handling, live receptionist and unlimited access to business lounge costs £160/month.

Actually my trade insurance is specifically designed to work from home. However, from Home Office point of you I will not have a physical commercial space to park the cars. My policy allows me to drive any trade car as a personal car also and technically I can park that at my home address. I am also considering to rent two private garages for where I can store my cars which will cost £100/month each.

Given, I have an virtual office with business lounge facilities, which will give a professional look to my company and I can take my car there when a client comes to view the car. I can have the deal in the business lounge and i can have meetings with employees in business lounge once or twice a month. In the last interview i told them my employees work from home as it suits my business model and is cost effective.

In the interview for extension, I told them my business model does not require a physical space. Because I also provide a service to buy and sell vehicles for other people where i act like an agent between the seller and buyer and get a commission so i have a floating stock. So i do not need a physical space. I am sure they will have the interview notes in their system.

Getting a physical space is not according to my business model and also too expensive to afford for now. Also main problem is i would have to change my trade insurance policy which will be very expensive.

Previously I had residential address of old house where i lived as company address, but interview was conducted at my other residence (I moved after 4 days of visa application in 2016) which was the correspondence address. If I get a virtual office and two private garages I wont even breach my tenancy agreement as I am not using new home address for any company advertisement or business.

**Question: Given my business model, having a virtual office with business lounge facilities, 2 garages and trade insurance do you think will be a problem with HO during ILR application? I can also attach a cover letter with ILR application in future to make it clear?**

What do you think?

Please advise.

Thank you.

[marcnath]

These are business decisions that you make on what's good for business.
It should have nothing to do with your immigration application.

[CULLINAN]

These are business decisions that you make on what's good for business.
It should have nothing to do with your immigration application.

Thank you for the response. I was just concerned about the extra checks for someone having home address/VO.

Thank you