laste SA submission deception?

[trunks2k8]

Hi all I'm due to apply for set LR in few months. My immigration history is below

tier1 gen - employment + self employment (limited company director) 2010/11

tier 1 gn extension - emplyment + self employment (ltd company director) 2012/13

set(0)ILR applied in 2016 but withdrawn after waiting for a year and had an urgent travel due to work and alsothought its best to get all the evidence from HMRC regarding my SA
tier 2 - granted in 2017, valid up to 2020

When I was self employed I had no tax liability for sa years for dividends declared , except for 2012/13 extension and that is £200. As I'm 100% shareholder for my bussiness I didnot apply for SA in those years and HMRC never requested sa and they did not impose any penalties when I submitted my SA's for all years in 2016. Also its still confusing if one has to submit sa if there is no tax liability and a company director. I looked up online and there are many blogs where accounts are debating again each other .. some think it has to be submitted and some say it isnt required..

For my 2010/11 return HMRC confirmed that its too ate to process but provided the manual tax calculation sa302 and I seem to have over paid £100 in tax. The rest have been processed and show up online. When i go to PEO - i'm not sure if HO hold information from 2016 and see nothing for my 2010/11 as it hasn't been processed. I know even late sa submission(no tax liability) is deemed deception by Ho for some stupid reason. What are my chances ? I know that I have good chance in Jr where I have letters from HMRC confirming that they confirmed in writing that I was never requested for sa submission and they donot need to take action after they reviewed my 201/11 returns as there is no tax liability and also that I haven't made any amendments and all the tax paid is up to date. I have also requested HMRC to send me the list of coorporation tax payments made/year for 10/11 and 2012/13 periods. This is to show that tax was paid in full the following years and there isn't any reason for me to evade tax for my non subission of SA.
Just want avoid rejection and all that JR hassle and wait for years as lot of people have been going thru lately ;( . What extra evidence/explanation would I need to get through this :!
what will happen to my valid visa up to 2020 if they impose 322(5) for some reason?

Any suggestions people?

[zimba]

First how are you eligible for SET(LR) ?? When did you withdraw and on what date did you apply for Tier 2 from home ? When did you return to the UK ?These dates are important to see if your continuous period is broken or not.
It is legal obligation to register to SA when you have made money from self-employment, got dividends, ect. HMRC is not required to demand this, you must register yourself and report as required by the law. Tax amendments issue will certainly affect any future ILR application.
SET(LR) application will be refused if you have tax issues

[Apollo12]

Hi Zimba thanks for your reply. I came to uk as a student in oct 2008 and then got psw + tier1 + tier1 ext + tier 2.
Whilst my SET(0) was still in progress , I applied for tier 2 from within uk as I had urgent work travel after I have waited for almost a year. My 10 year continuous period is not broken and my current tier2 is valid up to 2020.

I do not have any tax issues or amendments. My SA's were submitted late in 2016, starting from 2010/11 to 2016. Will this be an issue? Is there any chance home office impose deception? There is no tax liability for SA's submitted except for 2012/13(tier1 ext) and its only £200 which has already been paid. I found the below information fromAccounting web re SA.

After calling HMRC to process my out of date 201/11 SA .I got a reply in writing that 'The returns are unsolicited and were never requested by hmrc. I have reviewed the returns and There is no tax liability and we don't have to take any action. The manual tax calculation have already been sent to you by post'

Re - SA submission I have found this in one of accounting blogs and also was posted on ACCA site until last year.


here is no specific requirement in TMA 1970 for a director to register for self assessment if there is no further tax liability for the year and buried within HMRC’s Manuals at EM4551, there is some further guidance:

“There is no requirement to notify chargeability where there is no liability to Income Tax or Capital Gains Tax or where sufficient tax has been deducted at source to meet the net liability for the year.”
There is no exception to this for directors.

Therefore, if a director of a company has no further tax liability for a tax year AND no self assessment tax return has been issued by HMRC, then there is NO requirement for the director to notify chargeability OR file a tax return with HMRC for the year in question.

[Apollo12]

Some more info re - EM4551
Fortunately, there is no actual legal requirement to file a nil return.
Notice EM4551 from HMRC’s Enquiry Manual – is a long established HMRC notice that confirms there is no obligation for an individual to notify HMRC where there is no liability for tax. The notice states:
“There is no requirement to notify chargeability where there is no liability to IT or CGT or where sufficient tax has been deducted at source to meet the net liability for the year.”
There is no exception to this for directors in the document so it must be reasonable to assume that this statement includes directors.
www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/emmanual/em4551.htm
After April 2016
All change in 2016. With the introduction of the Dividend Allowance, more directors will pay tax in 2016-17 so if this includes you, then our recommendation is for you to register now.

[zimba]

You do not need to file SA if you have no tax liabilities however any late SA submission might be viewed as negative by HO. We cannot tell you if this can adverse effect on your ILR or not

[gbptier1general]

First how are you eligible for SET(LR) ?? When did you withdraw and on what date did you apply for Tier 2 from home ? When did you return to the UK ?These dates are important to see if your continuous period is broken or not.
It is legal obligation to register to SA when you have made money from self-employment, got dividends, ect. HMRC is not required to demand this, you must register yourself and report as required by the law. Tax amendments issue will certainly affect any future ILR application.
SET(LR) application will be refused if you have tax issues

Hi Zimba/All/Teddy,
For similar situation with Tier-G initially came to uk on May-2009 extended&then applied ILR(5Yrs-Route still under AR-process) on 21st Jan-2017, where SA payment is due by 31st Jan2018(SA-Tax paid on time) for the period Apl2016-Apl2017,after which SA was modified with Additional Employers updates done on 24Jan-2109 (meaning Amendments done successfully with 3-Yrs of Initial SA submission)with NO further tax Liability.(Meaning for this SA adjustments only updated some new sources of Minor-Earnings with NO Tax payments because the Total salary still did NOT cross the Min Tax threshold though Additional Employments been Added ).The Amendments of this SA are voluntary by candidate &NO notices from HMRC, this purely Accoutant&Employer delay in providing the Employee correct Info,so the ERROR which is valid & genuine w.r.t HMRC.
For this SA amendment to reflect in Public Forms[Online HMRC-systems] it will take Min 3-Months.So, by my 10Yr ILR-LR it will be ready on HMRC systems.

In Future on April-2019 planning for ILR-10Yr.
1)What kind of Letter/Docs should I/can request from HMRC to prove My character& tax Liability are Perfect.
2)What other set of Docs should I/can request from HMRC/Accountant to support my Application to HO for 10Yr-LR &minimise the IMPACT of Sec 322(5)/Deception.

Hi Apollo12,
Pls can u HINT what/how can to ask HMRC w.r.t to ur Points:-
" I have letters from HMRC confirming that they confirmed in writing that I was never requested for sa submission and they donot need to take action after they reviewed my 201/11 returns as there is no tax liability and also that I haven't made any amendments and all the tax paid is up to date."

3)Pls can u HINT what Letter can I ask from HMRC just like did.

[Casa]

First how are you eligible for SET(LR) ?? When did you withdraw and on what date did you apply for Tier 2 from home ? When did you return to the UK ?These dates are important to see if your continuous period is broken or not.
It is legal obligation to register to SA when you have made money from self-employment, got dividends, ect. HMRC is not required to demand this, you must register yourself and report as required by the law. Tax amendments issue will certainly affect any future ILR application.
SET(LR) application will be refused if you have tax issues

Hi Zimba/All/Teddy,
For similar situation with Tier-G initially came to uk on May-2009 extended&then applied ILR(5Yrs-Route still under AR-process) on 21st Jan-2017, where SA payment is due by 31st Jan2018(SA-Tax paid on time) for the period Apl2016-Apl2017,after which SA was modified with Additional Employers updates done on 24Jan-2109 (meaning Amendments done successfully with 3-Yrs of Initial SA submission)with NO further tax Liability.(Meaning for this SA adjustments only updated some new sources of Minor-Earnings with NO Tax payments because the Total salary still did NOT cross the Min Tax threshold though Additional Employments been Added ).The Amendments of this SA are voluntary by candidate &NO notices from HMRC, this purely Accoutant&Employer delay in providing the Employee correct Info,so the ERROR which is valid & genuine w.r.t HMRC.
For this SA amendment to reflect in Public Forms[Online HMRC-systems] it will take Min 3-Months.So, by my 10Yr ILR-LR it will be ready on HMRC systems.

In Future on April-2019 planning for ILR-10Yr.
1)What kind of Letter/Docs should I/can request from HMRC to prove My character& tax Liability are Perfect.
2)What other set of Docs should I/can request from HMRC/Accountant to support my Application to HO for 10Yr-LR &minimise the IMPACT of Sec 322(5)/Deception.

Hi Apollo12,
Pls can u HINT what/how can to ask HMRC w.r.t to ur Points:-
" I have letters from HMRC confirming that they confirmed in writing that I was never requested for sa submission and they donot need to take action after they reviewed my 201/11 returns as there is no tax liability and also that I haven't made any amendments and all the tax paid is up to date."

3)Pls can u HINT what Letter can I ask from HMRC just like did.

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