ILR Application - Refused - Gap in Work Permit

[deepakgeorge]

I went today to apply for ILR taking appointment at PEO Birmingham

I am very disappointed to say that they could not make a decision on my case today.

I am in a dilemma how to proceed . Can the experts on this forum provide some advice for my case.

Let me explain my situation here

I am an Indian Citizen who came to UK initially on a work permit (WP1) for one year in 2003 through an Indian Company.

My work permit was approved in May 2003 for one year and I entered UK on 27th May 2003.

My work permit was extended for another 6 months (WP2) in May 2004 and my visa was stamped till Nov 2004.

In August 2004 I got a job offer from another employer who got work permit (WP3) approval for me in Augut 2004 for one year. I went to India for my wedding and came back on the previous visa as I did not have enough time to give the passport for visa stamping since Home Office was taking around 2-3 months for visa stamping then and did not have the premium service as of now. I had called Home Office to check whether it is okay to enter the country on the existing visa and they confirmed that it was okay.

As soon as I came back to UK , I applied for FLR stamping with the work permit obtained by the new employer. I started working for the new employer in November 2004 after applying for FLR with the new workpermit(WP3).

I received my passport back in Feb 2005 with visa stamped for one year(until Feb 2006) and the work permit document showing approved for 12 months.

The same employer applied for work permit extension in Feb 2006 for 2 years (WP4) ie until Feb 2008(Since ILR was 4 years then ). I got the FLR also stamped till Feb 2008.

The same employer applied for work permit extension in Feb 2008 till October 2008 (WP5). I have got FLR also stamped for the same period. ie until October 2008.


I have completed 4 years 11 months on April 27 and took an appointment for ILR.


The case worker queried about the gap in work permit from August 2005 till January 2006. They say WP3 was approved in August and was for 1 year - Hence expired in August 2005. The next workpermit WP4 was applied in Jan 2006 And there is a gap of more than 5 months.


Myself and my employer was in the assumption that the work permit(WP3) is valid for 12 months from the day visa is stamped because the FLR was valid until 2006 and also the letter from Home Office which I received with the passport indicated that the approval length is 12 months. There was no valid until date then. I can see in the newer documents that there is a valid until date..

The caseworker at PEO gave me the options for either waiting until 2011 or apply by post where in a case worker can look into the case in a more detailed way.


They did not charge me any fee for the appointment. atleast that was good.

Can someone throw some light in this case please ? I am shattered.

[try-one]

Deepajgeorge,
Some general questions:

- When did you apply for WP3? (Jan 2005?)
- When did you left for India - When did you returned?
- Who was your employer between August 04 and the date you applied for the FLR related to WP3?

[deepakgeorge]

- When did you apply for WP3? (Jan 2005?)

The new employer applied for WP3 in mid August 2004 .

- When did you left for India - When did you returned?

I left for India on August 30th 2004 & returned on November 06 2004

- Who was your employer between August 04 and the date you applied for the FLR related to WP3?

I went to India and resigned from the Indian company and joined the new company from 09th November 2004.
I applied for FLR on WP3 on November 08 2004 . Previous visa was valid until 20th November 2004

Thanks for the quick response. Hope this helps.

[paulp]

The case worker queried about the gap in work permit from August 2005 till January 2006. They say WP3 was approved in August and was for 1 year - Hence expired in August 2005. The next workpermit WP4 was applied in Jan 2006 And there is a gap of more than 5 months.


Myself and my employer was in the assumption that the work permit(WP3) is valid for 12 months from the day visa is stamped because the FLR was valid until 2006 and also the letter from Home Office which I received with the passport indicated that the approval length is 12 months. There was no valid until date then. I can see in the newwer documents that there is a valid until date..

Unfortunately, the work permit is a stand alone document whose validity and duration do not depend on FLR (although you do need the FLR to be able to work). The work permit was valid for 12 months from the date it was issued, that is till August 2006. Bad news I'm afraid.

[deepakgeorge]

Unfortunately, the work permit is a stand alone document whose validity and duration do not depend on FLR (although you do need the FLR to be able to work). The work permit was valid for 12 months from the date it was issued, that is till August 2006. Bad news I'm afraid.

This is the document which I got with the passport after FLR stamping. I thought this is also a work permit document. This document is issued on 09/02/2005 and is issued for 12 months. What does this 12 months mean?. I have removed all person identifiable information.

[paulp]

Indeed, that looks like a work permit. Did your employer receive anything when they got approval in Aug 2004? It looks like your case can be argued.

The other question that arises is when did you stop working for your previous employer (around Aug 2004 or later?)?

[deepakgeorge]

Indeed, that looks like a work permit. Did your employer receive anything when they got approval in Aug 2004? It looks like your case can be argued.

The other question that arises is when did you stop working for your previous employer (around Aug 2004 or later?)?

Yes my new employer got an approval document in August which was sent with the passport for FLR stamping I believe. Unfortunately I don't have a copy of that document.

As I mentioned before I worked for an Indian company and onsite assignment in UK got over on 30th August 2004. I then went back to India , resigned from the company came back to UK joined the new company in November 2004.

Another point I would like to make here on thinking about it more deeply - I did not have an employer change nor the visa was expiring nor the work permit according to the document attached in the previous post. Then why I should have applied for a new workpermit until Feb 2006

Thanks paulp. Aah a slight relief. I am confident that I didn't do any overstay or work illegally within my knowledge.

What could be the best way to approach them now ?

[paulp]

How did the caseworker know that your new work permit was approved in Aug 2004? Was it on his computer system?

There is something that doesn't fit quite right, if your employer got approval in 2004, did they mention a starting date? When you applied for FLR, you shouldn't have got a new work permit in Feb 05, it should have been issued in Aug 04. I think the HO may have made a mistake.

You can try to do a Subject Access Request to see what really happened but that will take 40 days. Alternatively, you can apply by post and write a covering letter explaining that as far as you are aware, the document you showed is a valid work permit.

Can you ask your employer if they were actually issued a work permit in Aug 04?

[egg yolk]

Basically this is your situation:

When in August 2004 you were granted WP3, your employment with the previous employer terminated and you were expected to apply for FLR (in relation to that WP3) to commence employment or to obtain legal status.

But you applied FLR3 in February 2005, so from August 2004 until February 2005 your stay was not accurately legal. Although you had leave from the previous WP2, it bears no significance once a new WP is issued.

Thus from August 2004 until February 2005 you were either not employed or did not have the correct documents (like FL3) to commence employment under the WP3 you received then.

That document you have shown here is a FLR document issued in February 2005. Its not the Work Permit document which your employer will have.

Hope this helps.

[paulp]

egg yolk, that document looks very much like a work permit. It doesn't have the usual stuff about needing separately to apply for FLR as work permits issued during/after 2004.

But, the line that it should be carried with the passport suggests it may be a work permit. Something strange happened there.

[deepakgeorge]

How did the caseworker know that your new work permit was approved in Aug 2004? Was it on his computer system?

The caseworker could see on the computer system, the work permits issued in my name. She was writing the issued date & the duration of it. Hence she could see the gap. She did not look at the FLR stamping on my passport. She said that is the only thing she can see and she is not disputing about my stay during Aug to February.

There is something that doesn't fit quite right, if your employer got approval in 2004, did they mention a starting date? When you applied for FLR, you shouldn't have got a new work permit in Feb 05, it should have been issued in Aug 04. I think the HO may have made a mistake.

I can't remember about a start date mentioned on that document. But as you mentioned if this document shows that I have work permit for 12 months from 09/02/2005, I should be safe.

You can try to do a Subject Access Request to see what really happened but that will take 40 days.

I will check with my employer on this.

Alternatively, you can apply by post and write a covering letter explaining that as far as you are aware, the document you showed is a valid work permit.

Will probably do this. My employer is trying to check with his solicitor as well

Can you ask your employer if they were actually issued a work permit in Aug 04?

I am sure they have got a work permit approval document in August. I had this document when I went to Indian in August 2004.

egg yolk said
Basically this is your situation:
When in August 2004 you were granted WP3, your employment with the previous employer terminated and you were expected to apply for FLR (in relation to that WP3) to commence employment or to obtain legal status.

As far as I understand, any employer can apply workpermit for me but I can start working with them only after I have applied for FLR with the new work permit.

But you applied FLR3 in February 2005, so from August 2004 until February 2005 your stay was not accurately legal. Although you had leave from the previous WP2, it bears no significance once a new WP is issued.

Thus from August 2004 until February 2005 you were either not employed or did not have the correct documents (like FL3) to commence employment under the WP3 you received then.

I went to India on August 30, 2004. I came back on 06th November 2004. I came back on a saturday and applied for FLR on monday, November 08 2004. Home Office had delays then and took around 3 months to return my passport hence the visa is stamped in February.

So I don't think I was illegal then

That document you have shown here is a FLR document issued in February 2005. Its not the Work Permit document which your employer will have.
Hope this helps.

I even thought when we apply for FLR, Home Office do check if I am an overstayer or worked illegaly. I am working with the new employer from November 2004 till date.

Thanks for all repsonses.

[republique]

I went today to apply for ILR taking appointment at PEO Birmingham

I am very disappointed to say that they could not make a decision on my case today.

I am in a dilemma how to proceed . Can the experts on this forum provide some advice for my case.

Let me explain my situation here

I am an Indian Citizen who came to UK initially on a work permit (WP1) for one year in 2003 through an Indian Company.

My work permit was approved in May 2003 for one year and I entered UK on 27th May 2003.

My work permit was extended for another 6 months (WP2) in May 2004 and my visa was stamped till Nov 2004.

In August 2004 I got a job with another employer who got work permit (WP3) approval for me in Augut 2004 for one year. I went to India for my wedding and came back on the previous visa as I did not have enough time to give the passport for visa stamping since Home Office was taking around 2-3 months for visa stamping then and did not have the premium service as of now. I had called Home Office to check whether it is okay to enter the country on the existing visa and they confirmed that it was okay.

As soon as I came back to UK , I applied for FLR stamping with the work permit obtained by the new employer. I received my passport back in Feb 2005 with visa stamped for one year(until Feb 2006) and the work permit document showing approved for 12 months.

The same employer applied for work permit extension in Feb 2006 for 2 years (WP4) ie until Feb 2008(Since ILR was 4 years then ). I got the FLR also stamped till Feb 2008.

The same employer applied for work permit extension in Feb 2008 till October 2008 (WP5). I have got FLR also stamped for the same period. ie until October 2008.


I have completed 4 years 11 months on April 27 and took an appointment for ILR.


The case worker queried about the gap in work permit from August 2005 till January 2006. They say WP3 was approved in August and was for 1 year - Hence expired in August 2005. The next workpermit WP4 was applied in Jan 2006 And there is a gap of more than 5 months.


Myself and my employer was in the assumption that the work permit(WP3) is valid for 12 months from the day visa is stamped because the FLR was valid until 2006 and also the letter from Home Office which I received with the passport indicated that the approval length is 12 months. There was no valid until date then. I can see in the newer documents that there is a valid until date..

The caseworker at PEO gave me the options for either waiting until 2011 or apply by post where in a case worker can look into the case in a more detailed way.


They did not charge me any fee for the appointment. atleast that was good.

Can someone throw some light in this case please ? I am shattered.

When did you apply for the flr on the 3rd wp?

[deepakgeorge]

republique

When did you apply for the flr on the 3rd wp?

I went to India on August 30, 2004. I came back on 06th November 2004. I came back on a saturday and applied for FLR on monday, November 08 2004 with WP3. Home Office had delays then and took around 3 months to return my passport hence the visa is stamped in February.

[egg yolk]

Dear friend,

With no disrespect, yours is a complex case and please be advised to seek professional assistance in this matter.

Wishing you the very best.

[deepakgeorge]

Dear friend,

With no disrespect, yours is a complex case and please be advised to seek professional assistance in this matter.

Wishing you the very best.

Thanks egg yolk. So you mean I will have to go via an immigrations specialist solicitor. ? Will the senior members on this forum have any advice to give on this ?

[ND]

deepakgeorge,

I am sorry you had to face all this . Its so annoying when the mistake is not on our side.

If I am in your situation , I would take my application through a employers solicitor.

I would defnitely give it a try instead of waiting for another 3 years . By that time you dont know what the rules would be.

I think there is a fair chance of you comming out with a positive result.

Your work permit was issued :

Emp1

1 . May 2003 - May 2004 ( For 1 year )
2. May 2004 - Aug 2004 ( 6 months )

Emp2

1. Aug 2004 you got the WP approval letter for emp2 for 1 year -- Where is this letter ? Read it carefully and see when they asked you to go for FLR. I guess they would mention something like 6 months.

2.Nov 2004 FLR sent

3.Feb 2005 - Pass port stampted till Feb 2006 -- This is where they have done a mistake. This is the point you have use for winning your case.

I dont see you doing anything wrong or illegal. Its home office that has confused you.

Who applied your first workpermit with emp2 . Is it a lawyer of the employer ? Discuss with him the whole situation.

If possibel get the emp write a letter supporting you.

Its homeoffice's mistake to stamp your passport from Feb 2005- Feb 2006 instead of Aug 2004-Aug 2005. Not yours.

And you should NOT suffer for there mistake. Fight for it ...

[deepakgeorge]

Thanks ND for the advise and support. I never thought there was an issue until the PEO caseworker told me about this unknown "GAP"

Your work permit was issued :
Emp1

1 . May 2003 - May 2004 ( For 1 year )
2. May 2004 - Aug 2004 ( 6 months )

The second workpermit by Emp1 was for 6 months ie from May 2004 to November 2004 and not Aug 2004

Emp2

1. Aug 2004 you got the WP approval letter for emp2 for 1 year -- Where is this letter ? Read it carefully and see when they asked you to go for FLR. I guess they would mention something like 6 months.

I have sent that letter with the passport for FLR stamping. I have asked my employer to dig out a copy if he has one. Unfortunately I did not keep a copy of the same.

Who applied your first workpermit with emp2 . Is it a lawyer of the employer ? Discuss with him the whole situation.

If possible get the emp write a letter supporting you.

Employer's solicitor applied for the workpermit. I have spoken to the solicitor yesterday. They are studying the case and will come back to me today hopefully.

Employer will be more than happy to support me in anyway he could.

Its homeoffice's mistake to stamp your passport from Feb 2005- Feb 2006 instead of Aug 2004-Aug 2005. Not yours.
And you should NOT suffer for there mistake. Fight for it ...

I hope we can convince homeoffice about their mistake. I did not have this copy which is attached above with me when I went for the PEO appointment. I am going to fight for it. Will keep the forum posted about what is happening.

By that time if anyone can help me with more ideas / suggestion. I will be extremely grateful.

[first2last4]

Its homeoffice's mistake to stamp your passport from Feb 2005- Feb 2006 instead of Aug 2004-Aug 2005. Not yours.

And you should NOT suffer for there mistake. Fight for it ...

I agree

Deepak, You say your WP was for a year from Aug 2004 and your FLR for the WP mentions end date as Feb 2006. Technically they should mention your FLR end date as Aug'2005. This is what happen to me.

Because my Passport was locked in HSMP application there was a gap between 2 WP. Something like this
>First WP/FLR expired in Mar 2005
>Got 12 month WP in Aug 2005
>Applied FLR for the above WP
>As per your scenario I would expect FLR stamped as
valid from Aug'2005 to Aug'2006 (12 month visa), since I applied FLR in Aug. But they gave me the stamp as valid from Aug'2005 to Feb'2006 (i.e. just 7 months visa).

Eventually the FLR validity date was in sync with WP issued date.

[deepakgeorge]

Deepak, You say your WP was for a year from Aug 2004 and your FLR for the WP mentions end date as Feb 2006. Technically they should mention your FLR end date as Aug'2005. This is what happen to me.

Because my Passport was locked in HSMP application there was a gap between 2 WP. Something like this
>First WP/FLR expired in Mar 2005
>Got 12 month WP in Aug 2005
>Applied FLR for the above WP
>As per your scenario I would expect FLR stamped as
valid from Aug'2005 to Aug'2006 (12 month visa), since I applied FLR in Aug. But they gave me the stamp as valid from Aug'2005 to Feb'2006 (i.e. just 7 months visa).

Eventually the FLR validity date was in sync with WP issued date.

Thanks first2last4.

Yeah that makes sense.. If my FLR / WP Document showed it was expiring in August 2005, I would have definitely gone for an extension from then.

But since the FLR was valid until Feb 2006 & the WP Document which I got in Feb 2005 was showing approved for 12 months, we did not bother to apply until January 2006. Hope Home Office will accept their mistake and provide a decision in my favour.

[deepakgeorge]

An update - After seeing the advice on the forum & listening to my friends, I have decided to apply for ILR through my employer's solicitor.

Have sent the documents to the solicitor today. Will update the status.

[deepakgeorge]

Just an update to this post if at all anyone is curious to know the results.

My solicitor just now called to confirm that our ILR Application is approved.

Waiting to see the passports yet.

Thanks everyone for their support and advise. This forum is ace !!!

[rabey]

Congratulations!

[shubi81]

Hello mates ..I was looking at a suitable place to post my (basic) question & found , this would be the right place ..even I am not getting enough info at bia site .
I have just got my Tier-1(general) visa from india , valid from 29/5/08 for nxt 3 years . I know , I can apply for FLR for further 2 yrs after the completion of this 3 yrs . But after that to gain ILR , there is some rule that I can't spend more than <???> months outside UK out of the last 5 yrs . Can someone pls fill up the blank pls ??
My dates to fly to UK will depend on this guys ...pls help !! I read somewhr that it is 45 days or soemthing , which I think will be pretty tough, since anyway I cant fly before June end & hereby consuming 30 days out of 45 ..!!
So, can you just let me know the present rule ...??

Many thanks
Shubi

Congratulations!

[sharkish]

Can you pls let me know the procedure for appeal through a solicitor in case the application gets rejected and approximately the time taken to know the result of appeal. Is there any appeal fee involved and what will be the solilcitors fee. Can you suggest or guide me where I can find few solicitors.
Thanks..

[shubi81]

Guys , any idea pls ...

Hello mates ..I was looking at a suitable place to post my (basic) question & found , this would be the right place ..even I am not getting enough info at bia site .
I have just got my Tier-1(general) visa from india , valid from 29/5/08 for nxt 3 years . I know , I can apply for FLR for further 2 yrs after the completion of this 3 yrs . But after that to gain ILR , there is some rule that I can't spend more than <???> months outside UK out of the last 5 yrs . Can someone pls fill up the blank pls ??
My dates to fly to UK will depend on this guys ...pls help !! I read somewhr that it is 45 days or soemthing , which I think will be pretty tough, since anyway I cant fly before June end & hereby consuming 30 days out of 45 ..!!
So, can you just let me know the present rule ...??

Many thanks
Shubi

Congratulations!