FLR(M) online equivalent questions

[Dantean]

Can PIP and/or a foreign disability payment of the applicant, who is resident in the UK, be counted as income towards the £18,600 minimum for a spouse visa, FLR (M) ?

I know that if the sponsor spouse receives Personal Independence Payment, the maintenance requirement can be used in place of the 18,600 minimum, but in this case, it would be the applicant receiving PIP, so I don't think that would apply.

[CR001]

No, the UK sponsor has to meet the financial requirement for a spouse visa from abroad.

[Dantean]

No, the UK sponsor has to meet the financial requirement for a spouse visa from abroad.

The applicant spouse is resident in the UK, so their income should be eligible to be included. The applicant has multiple sources of income, including self employment income. I am just wondering about if PIP and/or a foreign disability payment could be included.

I would like to know if the other income could be counted when applying for the second 30 month period FLR(M) and whether it could be counted for the first FLR(M) application. The applicant spouse would be resident, starting with a dependent visa.

[CR001]

The applicant spouse is resident in the UK, so their income should be eligible to be included. The applicant has multiple sources of income, including self employment income. I am just wondering about if PIP and/or a foreign disability payment could be included. No. Only the UK sponsors income is used to meet the financial requirement for the initial visa from abroad. The overseas spouse's income will not be used.

I would like to know if the other income could be counted when applying for the second 30 month period FLR(M) and whether it could be counted for the first FLR(M) application. The applicant spouse would be resident, starting with a dependent visa. Both spouses' income can be used for FLR(M) extension.

[Dantean]

The applicant spouse is resident in the UK, so their income should be eligible to be included. The applicant has multiple sources of income, including self employment income. I am just wondering about if PIP and/or a foreign disability payment could be included. No. Only the UK sponsors income is used to meet the financial requirement for the initial visa from abroad. The overseas spouse's income will not be used.

Section 4.1.1 of Appendix FM of Section 1.7 lists 5 ways of meeting the financial requirement. The employment and self-employment paragraphs both include the phrase "(and/or the applicant if they are in the UK with permission to work)". In this case, both the applicant and the sponsor are resident in the UK and the applicant has permission to work. The FLR(M) is being applied for from within the UK. Are you saying the applicant's income cannot be counted on the first application, even if they are in the UK with permission to work?

I would like to know if the other income could be counted when applying for the second 30 month period FLR(M) and whether it could be counted for the first FLR(M) application. The applicant spouse would be resident, starting with a dependent visa. Both spouses' income can be used for FLR(M) extension.

But it's not clear to me if PIP and/or foreign disability income is counted. Category E is pensions, including foreign, but disability is different. I don't see them specifically in section "4.2 Sources that are not permitted", but the last item in that section is "Any other source of income not specified in Appendix FM-SE as counting towards the financial requirement." Appendix FM-SE tells how to submit evidence of PIP payments but does not specificallly specify that it counts.

[CR001]

Sorry, I lost the plot here. I missed that both sponsor and applicant are in the UK.

Both incomes can be used but I am not 100% sure about foreign disability. It won't exempt them as far as I am aware. They would be exempt if the sponsor was claiming UK PIP etc.

[Dantean]

They would be exempt if the sponsor was claiming UK PIP etc.

I've been looking at this again because of a sentence on this page (emphasis added):

Family visas: extend your stay in the UK
3. Eligibility
Partner (5-year route)
https://www.gov.uk/remain-in-uk-family/eligibility

You won’t need to prove you have this money if you or your partner get certain disability benefits or Carer’s Allowance, but you’ll need to adequately accommodate and support yourselves and any dependants.

Further, in Appendix FM 1.0a: Family Life (as a Partner or Parent): 5-Year Routes https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... t_2015.pdf

In 8.2. Financial requirement, it says:

Applicants who are exempt from the minimum income threshold under the financial requirement in Appendix FM (because they are in receipt of a specified benefit or allowance) must instead demonstrate that their partner is able to maintain themselves, the applicant and any dependants ‘adequately’ without recourse to public funds.

This seems to indicate that the applicant, or the applicant's partner can be in receipt of the benefit in order to be exempt from the minimum income, and would have to demonstrate adequate maintenance instead.

[CR001]

I stand to be corrected but I believe this refers to benefits received from the UK authorities.

[Dantean]

I stand to be corrected but I believe this refers to benefits received from the UK authorities.

I agree. And it would be a relatively rare circumstance for someone without ILR to be eligible for one of the listed benefits, but there are some situations where that is the case. For example, someone with a disability from a country with a reciprocal social security treaty might be eligible for DLA or PIP and therefore receive them while applying for FLR.

On the FLR(M) application:

Exemption from meeting the income threshold
7.1 Are you or your sponsor in receipt of a benefit listed in section 21 d) of the guidance notes?

If Yes, you're directed to Section 7B - Maintenance instead of the income section. 21 d of the guidance lists the benefits, which includes DLA, PIP, etc.

It's interesting that the maintenance amount required can exceed the 18,600 income limit, depending on actual housing costs (rent/mortgage + council tax), so if the amount of the benefit is low, it might be easier to meet the income limit. If one is in receipt of the benefits, I wonder if one is required to show maintenance or can opt for the income limit instead.

[Dantean]

I wonder if anyone might have some additional insight on this question. On the most recent version of FLR(M) question 7.1 is (emphasis added),

Exemption from meeting the income threshold
7.1 Are you or your sponsor in receipt of a benefit listed in section 21 d) of the guidance notes? If you claim to be exempt from meeting the financial threshold you must submit the relevant evidence, as specified, of your eligibility to be exempt.
Yes [ ] go to section 7B No [ ] go to question 7.2

and, on https://www.gov.uk/uk-family-visa/proof-income it currently says (emphasis added):

You may be able to settle in 5 years without meeting the minimum income requirement if either:

• you’re applying as a parent
• you get certain benefits, for example Disability Living Allowance or Carer’s Allowance.

The above seem to be saying that either the applicant, or the sponsor can be in receipt of the benefits.

However, the FLR(M) Guidance says (emphasis added):

You will be exempt from meeting the financial requirement in the form of an income threshold if your sponsor receives one of the following specified benefits or allowances in the UK

and Appendix FM 1.7: Financial Requirement says (emphasis added):

3.6.1. Where the applicant’s partner is in receipt of any of the following benefits or allowances in the UK, the applicant will be able to meet the financial requirement at that application stage by providing evidence of “adequate maintenance” rather than meeting an income threshold

Is this just sloppy and misleading language on the FLR(M) and gov.uk web page for Family visas?

If the applicant is in receipt of one of the listed benefits (as I mention in a previous post, a rare, but possible circumstance), answering question 7.1 on the FLR(M) accurately leads one to section 7B (maintenance) rather than question 7.2 (financial requirement).

Should question 7.1 be answered as if it said "Is your sponsor…" rather than "Are you or your sponsor…" ?

[Dantean]

I have a few questions on the online equivalent of the FLR(M). It's strange how the online application differs from the pdf version.

1. One of questions is:

Time spent outside the UK
Have you been out of the UK since you started living here?

If Yes is the answer, it asks:

Details of time spent outside the UK
Date you left the UK [ ]
Date you returned to the UK [ ]
Reason for this period of absence [ ]

If one has left the UK for a day trip, for example, to Paris, for which one must go through immigration, where the passport gets a stamp, then the date you left and date you returned is the same. But if one tries to submit such information, an error message says the date of return must be after the date you left and it won't accept the entry. To put the next day in would be inaccurate, and to leave the trip out would also be inaccurate.

Has anyone encountered this? If so, how did you handle it? The pdf version of FLRM asks about absences of more than 6 months, but the online version seems to be asking about any trips.

2. Another question is headed:

Business interests outside the UK
Do you or any of your dependants have any business interests outside the UK?

What kinds of things are considered business interests? If a sole trader does business with clients in another country, is that a business interest? Or would it only be something like owning a company in another country?

[Dantean]

The online version of FLR(M) asks the question about the "partner" only which makes it seem like it's only the partner's receiving the benefits which matters.

Finance
Does your partner currently receive any of these benefits?
Please tick the relevant box(es) below to show which benefits your partner receives.
[ ] Carer's Allowance
[ ] Disability Living Allowance
[ ] Severe Disablement Allowance
[ ] Industrial Injuries Disablement Allowance
[ ] Attendance Allowance
[ ] Personal Independence Payment
[ ] Armed Forces Independence Payment
[ ] Guaranteed income payment under the Armed Forces Compensation Scheme
[ ] Constant Attendance Allowance
[ ] Mobility Supplement
[ ] War Disablement Pension under the War Pensions Scheme
[ ] Police Disability Pension
[ ] No, my partner does not receive any of these benefits

This seems like more evidence that the gov.uk website and FLR(M) are just sloppy language when they include "you or your partner" in the question.

[vinny]

Unfortunately,

The requirements to meet this paragraph are-

(a) the applicant’s partner must be receiving one or more of the following -
...

[Dantean]

I meant for this to be a new topic "FLR(M) online equivalent questions" rather than a reply to my previous topic "Financial requirements, spouse, disability, PIP". Could a moderator move this to a new post, or delete it and I'll try to repost as a new topic?

I have a few questions on the online equivalent of the FLR(M). It's strange how the online application differs from the pdf version.

1. One of questions is:

Time spent outside the UK
Have you been out of the UK since you started living here?

If Yes is the answer, it asks:

Details of time spent outside the UK
Date you left the UK [ ]
Date you returned to the UK [ ]
Reason for this period of absence [ ]

If one has left the UK for a day trip, for example, to Paris, for which one must go through immigration, where the passport gets a stamp, then the date you left and date you returned is the same. But if one tries to submit such information, an error message says the date of return must be after the date you left and it won't accept the entry. To put the next day in would be inaccurate, and to leave the trip out would also be inaccurate.

Has anyone encountered this? If so, how did you handle it? The pdf version of FLRM asks about absences of more than 6 months, but the online version seems to be asking about any trips.

2. Another question is headed:

Business interests outside the UK
Do you or any of your dependants have any business interests outside the UK?

What kinds of things are considered business interests? If a sole trader does business with clients in another country, is that a business interest? Or would it only be something like owning a company in another country?

[CR001]

All questions on the same application should be posted in one topic.

Multiple Topics / Posts (click)

[Dantean]

If one has left the UK for a day trip, for example, to Paris, for which one must go through immigration, where the passport gets a stamp, then the date you left and date you returned is the same. But if one tries to submit such information, an error message says the date of return must be after the date you left and it won't accept the entry. To put the next day in would be inaccurate, and to leave the trip out would also be inaccurate.

Does anyone know if there is a sort of freeform "Additional information" question on the online equivalent of the FLR(M) ? If one has to provide an inaccurate answer due to restrictions in the way the form allows information to be entered, is there a place to provide an explanation?

[Dantean]

If a sponsor loses their job, which was used as the source of income under Category A for an FLR(M) application, while the application is being considered, they would have an obligation to inform the Home Office. Would that application still be considered based on Category A? Or if the sponsor got a new job within a few weeks, would they have to send additional evidence to be considered under Category B?

[Dantean]

When filling out an FLR(M), Section 7A - Financial requirement, 7.3A (iii) says:

(iii) Have you/your sponsor been in employment with the same employer and earning the amount specified in (xiv) below continuously for 6 months prior to the date of the application? (category A)

If the sponsor had a pay rise 3 months before, would this still be considered category A as long as the amount has continuously been over the required level? e.g. if the sponsor was earning £20,000 and received a pay rise to £21,000 3 months ago.

In which case, should one specify both amounts, in (xiv):

(xiv) What is your/your sponsor’s annual income from your or their current employment before tax (£)?

e.g. answered with:
£21,000 from 1st April, £20,000 prior