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Is 90/180 Schenghen rule hard and fast?

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Ximon
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Is 90/180 Schenghen rule hard and fast?

Post by Ximon » Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:12 pm

Under Schengen rules, non-EU passport holders may only stay in the EU for 90 out of the past 180 days. Is this a hard and fast rule? Or can an EU member stop a traveler from entering if they suspect the person is coming for purposes of immigration e.g. owning a home, entering the EU too frequently, having no proof of a job or salary outside of the EU?

I ask this in the context of whether to buy a holiday retirement home within the Schengen zone. If I use it too often, I worry that it will be considered suspicious.

Caravel88
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Re: Is 90/180 Schenghen rule hard and fast?

Post by Caravel88 » Thu Aug 23, 2018 2:02 pm

You may get asked about your reasons for coming to the country you want to visit.
If your visit is legal and legitimate, there is no reason for them to deny you entry.

If you have the right to spend 90 days out of every 180, you can exercise that right for purposes of tourism (short stay) or business.

Many people outside of EU own holiday homes in the EU.

If you don't have means to support you or can not prove it, they may choose to not to let you in the country (naturally).
Ximon wrote:
Wed Aug 22, 2018 6:12 pm
Under Schengen rules, non-EU passport holders may only stay in the EU for 90 out of the past 180 days. Is this a hard and fast rule? Or can an EU member stop a traveler from entering if they suspect the person is coming for purposes of immigration e.g. owning a home, entering the EU too frequently, having no proof of a job or salary outside of the EU?

I ask this in the context of whether to buy a holiday retirement home within the Schengen zone. If I use it too often, I worry that it will be considered suspicious.

Ximon
Junior Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Fri Jan 12, 2018 5:52 pm
United States of America

Re: Is 90/180 Schenghen rule hard and fast?

Post by Ximon » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:02 pm

Thanks Caravel but I am still concerned about it. I wonder what guidelines EU immigration uses at the borders. Seems that frequent travel in and out for the max period of time would be a red flag to a diligent immigration officer. Legal and legitimate can be interpreted a number of ways is suspicion is all that is required. In Ireland and the UK (I know they are not part of Schengen) I know that immigration officers are trained to look for signs that a foreign passport holder is a "genuine visitor".

secret.simon
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Re: Is 90/180 Schenghen rule hard and fast?

Post by secret.simon » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:33 pm

USER MANUAL FOR THE SHORT-STAY SCHENGEN CALCULATOR wrote:As from 18 October 2013 for the vast majority of the third-country nationals – irrespective of being visa required or exempt – who intend to travel to the Schengen area for a short stay (contrary to reside in one of the Member States for longer than 3 months) the maximum duration of authorised stay is defined as "90 days in any 180-day period […]".

Contrary to the definition which was in force until 18 October 2013, the new concept is more precise by setting the duration in days, instead of months.

In order to apply the 90 days / 180-day rule, a calculator has been developed for the general public and for the Member States' authorities. The calculator is a helping tool only; it does not constitute a right to stay for a period resulting from its calculation. It is always for the Member States' competent authorities (in particular for the border guards) to implement the provisions and make a decision on the length of the authorised stay or on the overstay.
The language of the guide suggests that the "90 days out of 180" formulation was specifically chosen as being more precise than the earlier "3 months out of 6" formulation, which had some latitude of ambiguity.

The sentence that I have underlined above is to highlight that the border guards are border guards for the individual Member-States and to the best of my knowledge, the EU does not issue guidelines to them.

Short-stay Visa Calculator
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

Ximon
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Re: Is 90/180 Schenghen rule hard and fast?

Post by Ximon » Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:47 pm

Yes, secret.simon, that is precisely my point. Each member state has their own immigration concerns and therefore discretion in enforcing their own immigration policies and the 90/180 rule does not address the difference between a "defacto resident" and a "genuine visitor".

secret.simon
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Re: Is 90/180 Schenghen rule hard and fast?

Post by secret.simon » Sun Aug 26, 2018 11:30 am

Ximon wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:47 pm
Each member state has their own immigration concerns and therefore discretion in enforcing their own immigration policies
I would interpret it entirely differently.

While each member-state does have its own immigration concerns, they cannot have an individualised immigration policy. The immigration policy for the Schengen zone, at least as regards entry and exit, is unified. It has to be, otherwise a borderless setup such as Schengen would fall apart.
Ximon wrote:
Sat Aug 25, 2018 7:47 pm
the 90/180 rule does not address the difference between a "defacto resident" and a "genuine visitor".
It doesn't because it does not need to. They operate in different areas (the former in the Schengen zone, the latter in the CTA - I presume that Ireland implements the same rules as the UK in this field).

I would take the 90/180 days as a precise rule, because as the guidance above says, it was meant to be.
I am not a lawyer or immigration advisor. My statements/comments do not constitute legal advice. E&OE. Please do not PM me for advice.

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