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just been told my marriage certificate is not real help!!

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singlemom
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just been told my marriage certificate is not real help!!

Post by singlemom » Mon May 19, 2008 1:58 pm

i have just been told that after being led to believe that i was married for five years that it's invalid due to the fact a... not recognized in uk law if ur married abroad.. 2..... it's not got all paragraph's in it that a nikah nama should have 3.... it's a complete and utter illegal document.. i e no accreditation from the high commission of pakistan or union of council now i the idiot sponsored this man to come here believing everything was above board and now im told the attested stamps are in complete deeming it invalid am at a loss now and do not know what can be done as he's all-ready here in uk on a spousal visa thats now completely invalid arggggh am going nut's here

khan85
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Post by khan85 » Mon May 19, 2008 3:24 pm

are you and your husband still living together?? or u planning on getting a divorce or sumthing??

singlemom
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Post by singlemom » Mon May 19, 2008 6:40 pm

no we are not living toghether and as it stand's as the cert is in valid then technically am not legally married but now that it's out home office.. know and now they saying it's an illegal matter and a case for fraud investigation what's the likelyhood of him being deported as i was lead to believe that it was genuine however he made it impossible for applying for anything like a national card for pak and he was adamant that i didn't regsiter with the local registar it's as almost if he knew that it wasn't real

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Mon May 19, 2008 6:47 pm

Just because the document is incorrect does not mean you are not lawfully married. If you have gone through an Islamic nikah namma , then in law you are legally married.

If the marriage doc is incorrect, you shoud be able to get another one from the union council.You can download a copy of nikah namma formboth in Urdu and English for you to compare to see what is missing.

As Khan85 says are you living together?. Who says the doc is not legal?

maybe if you can give more info, people will be able to help and advise you how to get out of the mess you are in

singlemom
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grrr doing my head in

Post by singlemom » Mon May 19, 2008 7:02 pm

well pakistan embassy have told me that it's needs attestation stamp's of union of council high commison of pak and foreign affairs as for it to be deemed a legal document now ive seen the origianl copy and the true copy i have and my copy has paragraphs cut off it also also para's 9-11 are scrubbed as well as 15 to 22 now none of these were ever discussed with me and i did not have any guardian from my side also on the original there is handrwitten signatures and the true copy i have has just filled in bit's on a that seems to have been done on a type writer of sort

khan85
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Post by khan85 » Mon May 19, 2008 7:32 pm

so basically you want your husband deported or what?? or are you just worried that your Nikkah Nama is not valid??

singlemom
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well il be arggggggh damned

Post by singlemom » Mon May 19, 2008 7:43 pm

well yeah because he's not even lived up to what he stated for his visa i .e he doesnt pay for his child in last five year's his visa is running out and due to harrasment of asking me to lie to home office about our status he's now using our child who he's never seen in four years as an excsue to give him ilr but as the embassy told me with out the stamp's it's invalid i just want to know that if it's true how do i get out this mess as am also finding it's not even registred with the union of council so they have no records at all it's all bizarre to me

Directive/2004/38/EC
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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon May 19, 2008 7:53 pm

In which country are you living? In which country is he living?

singlemom
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getting it right!!!!

Post by singlemom » Mon May 19, 2008 8:22 pm

well am a uk citizen not muslim though had to convert to marry him am from scotalnd and i went to pakistan to marry him as that's where he is from

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Mon May 19, 2008 9:01 pm

In which country are you presently living?

In which country is he presently living?

singlemom
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bizarre

Post by singlemom » Mon May 19, 2008 9:17 pm

well am living in the uk where i was born he's only here as i sponsored him end of if the document doesnt have the legal certification stamps on it by the high comission of pak and the registrar of union of council as well as foreign office then how can it be valid when the english copy was certified 4 years after the maritable date

batleykhan
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Post by batleykhan » Mon May 19, 2008 10:13 pm

Sorry singlemum. I think the people here trying to help you are still confused by your comments and answers. A original and legal islamic marriage certificate (nikkah naama form) is only available in Urdu only in Pakistan. It is normally completed , signed and stamped by the local office of the Union Council( Office of Birth, death and Marriages) at the time the marriage takes place. It is done in the present of a religious priest,the bridegroom and the brides reprsentative(the person who normally gives the bride away in marriage, most likely father).The form is also signed by at least 4 witnesses to the marriage. The registrar completes the form and then stamp it with the Union Council stamp. Upon completition of this marriage is acknowleged and registered.

Most peopel who apply for entry clearance to the UK,also have the nikkah namma translated into english by a translator and it is then attested by a solicitor in Paksitan. This doc is only a translation but not a valid doc.

Now which doc is not attested?. is it the urdu or english one. Also you say you did not have someone to give you away at the time of the marriage, did you agree to the marraige. if you had consented, then it is a valid marriage. If you now try to seperate, then you must go therough an english divorce procedure.

If on the other hand you dont want him to get his ILR, then why dont you just write a letter to the Home Office explaing what has happened and let them decide what they want to do with him. I do however think you have been a bit naieve in this matter

singlemom
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toatlly don't know nymorer

Post by singlemom » Mon May 19, 2008 10:37 pm

no i totally get what you are saying right the urdu copy is the one my ex has got now our marriage did not take in any registrar neither did i go to any place to sign anything a man came to husband's home and know i didn't have a guardian there you are right but i genuenly believed it was official now as for the urdu copy i saw that copy and it's tens time's the size of the english copy that i have the the reason i say all this is because i asked him for a divorce two years ago now all of a sudden the urdu copy has dissapeared i e my ex has but my query really is if it's binding then ok no problem then why are the union council unable to trace our registration and it's the english copy that's not properly attested and this is the copy that was used to gain him entry

PaperPusher
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Post by PaperPusher » Mon May 19, 2008 11:19 pm

If it is properly translated wouldn't it say "stamp of the union union council" on it. Even the bits that were left blank and not completed should have the adjacent printed text translated.

I am concerned because the bits that could be missing are her dowry/dower agreement and any agreements about divorce and subsequent wives.

Singlemom - you are using the word "guardian" but as far as I am aware it does not have to be your father or parental guardian. I am sure that the term is vakil & this person would represent you - something like a solicitor would if you signed a contract - someone with your best interests in mind. I think that the word means lawyer - although this may not be an exact translation of the meaning or equivalent in English.

I have never seen a Nikah without some amount of dowry being mentioned - I have seen lots. I thought that it was a requirement for the Nikah to be valid for a woman to have a dowry - that is her own property that she gets on marriage.
'It must be stated that the dower or consideration for marriage is an essential ingredient of a valid marriage in Islam. The original nikahnama and the entries thereof do tend to presume that no dower amount was fixed, as it was an exchange marriage. An exchange marriage may be a consideration for the parents of the spouse but in order to constitute a valid marriage the dower amount or any other valid consideration in lieu of the marriage has to be fixed, offered and accepted by the spouses.. Marriage of a relative of a spouse with some other, is by itself not a valid consideration for his or her own marriage.' (P. 1910, para 3)
Case summaries from the courts in Pakistan from SOAS

How long have you & your husband/claimed husband been separated?

When did he come to the UK on the spouse visa?

You said that he has not seen his child for 4 years, this seems strange.

Maybe it is time for you to get some proper family law advice Singlemom!!

Good luck with your dilemma. Please remember that you cannot force the Home Office to send him back to Pakistan.

Regards

PP

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Post by Directive/2004/38/EC » Tue May 20, 2008 6:06 am

I think PaperPusher is right. Best to talk with a good Solicitor specializing in family law.

Note also that you are not required to support your husband's application for ILR.

I suspect that few of us on this list can say anything more that is useful.

singlemom
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thanx all for ur help

Post by singlemom » Tue May 20, 2008 11:38 am

well all thanx all for your input i did the necessary and called the local foreign affairs office here in glasgow and they happily told me that details can be changed on the nikah nama if it's got full consent of both parties ie i was in uk i couldn't give consent to a new english copy being drawn up so they have have asked union council to trace the registry and then they will be able to check my copy against the original urdu copy and have told me any changes that are on my copy that are not on the original copy will make it invalid i e my husband didnt want a divorce so sought to use the islamic laws in not allowing me to so i a few day's il find out if my ex changed the facts on it after i asked for a divorce anyway so am waiting on the original being sent from pak and theyv'e told me any normailities ad well it's not a good thing so thanx for all ur input

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