British child passport renew application on hold: middle name problem

[brazUKa]

Hello everyone,

This forum has helped me greatly during my citizenship process and I come here once again for help and guidance. Apologies if something similar has been asked before so replies to my question or directions to previous threads will be really appreciated.

My daughter (now age 6) is a British citizen from birth. She's also a Brazilian national.
Her first British passport has expired and I sent an application a month ago for it to be renewed. The Passport Office then sent me letter saying they will not issue an passport unless I change her name on her Brazilian passport as the names are not matching.

The names difference between the two passports (Brit vs Brazilian) is that on her expired British passport, only her last name is appearing on the 'surname' field (i.e. her first and middle name are in the "given names" field), whereas on the Brazilian passport both her middle and last names appears on the 'surname' field (and only the first name on the "given name").

To illustrate I will use this mock name, where the name in capital letters appear in the 'surname' field.
British passport: Ana Lima SILVA
Brazilian passport: Ana LIMA SILVA

I don't want to change her name on the Brazilian passport because there's nothing really to change as her middle name is a family name (from my wife's side) - it's also a quite complicated process to change a name in Brazil and it would only be possible if we were living there. So I just want to adjust her British name for her middle name to be seen as a part of the surname/family name.

As English is not my first language I probably misunderstood the concept of surname/family name at the time of the application for her first passport. The online form has a field for surname, which I thought was only the last name; and a field for first and middle names - see screenshot attached.

A friend who had a similar (but not quite) problem suggested I looked into changing her name by Deed Poll - so I looked into the deed poll form but there's only a single blank field for the proposed new name and other blank field for the old name - i.e. on the form itself there's nothing really a way indicate which name will be the family name(s) or simply a middle name.

I just don't know what to do now that's why I came here to see if anyone has any idea or suggestion.
I was thinking of writing to the Passport Office explaining this and see if they would understand and issue the passport, or perhaps cancel the application and advise me to submit a new one as if applying for her very first passport, or will they sent me a default helpless letter keeping me in this limbo?

[baddy]

In my own opinion, I think you should approach the Brazilian embassy and correct this mistake. They should re arrange her names properly and issue a new brazilian passport. Home office is actually helping you here, because your daughter has two identities as it stands and not good for her.

[JAJ]

In what name was her previous British passport issued? (using the example names above).

What does her U.K. birth certificate say for first and last name?

What's your view on what "family name" your daughter should use for U.K. purposes going forward?

All this is relevant because the Passport Office operates what is becoming the de-facto National Identity Register for British citizens. (there was one set up under a previous government and abolished by its successor- but public policy effectively requires one ... ). Which means that whatever identity your daughter has on her British passport will be her official identity for all British purposes. It also explains why the Passport Office are insistent that the identity recorded on a British passport should match that on any foreign passports issued to the same person.

[bruteforce]

Why did they issue passport in the first place then?

[brazUKa]

In what name was her previous British passport issued? (using the example names above).

What does her U.K. birth certificate say for first and last name?

What's your view on what "family name" your daughter should use for U.K. purposes going forward?

All this is relevant because the Passport Office operates what is becoming the de-facto National Identity Register for British citizens. (there was one set up under a previous government and abolished by its successor- but public policy effectively requires one ... ). Which means that whatever identity your daughter has on her British passport will be her official identity for all British purposes. It also explains why the Passport Office are insistent that the identity recorded on a British passport should match that on any foreign passports issued to the same person.

Thank you guys for answering.

Her first British passport was issues as (using the example name)
Given names: Ana Lima
Surname: Silva

The UK birth certificate only has a "full name" field i.e. Doesn't differentiate which part exactly constitute a family name (on my understanding of what a family name is).
And appear as "Ana Lima SILVA" (the last name appearing in capitals) so the first British passport matches her U.K. Birth certificate

At the time I applied for her first British passport some 6 years ago, she didn't have the Brazilian one yet so there was no foreign documents to compare with, just her U.K. Birth certificate + our own documents.

My view is that her family name should match that of the Brazilian passport, because that middle name in question is a family name per se (it is the family of my wife, not just any name).
Even if I wanted to change her name in Brazil -- make this middle family name into a non-family name -- that wouldn't be possible because no judge would accept it (yes, one need to have a hearing with the judge in order to have a name change there).

[baddy]

You are creating confusion for your daughter later in future. Please leave setiments of your wife's surname to be compounded with your surname. You got the Britisich passport for her without the compound name, you also registered her birth without the compound name; why then are you doing that for her Brazilian passport?

All I see here is sentiment of trying to please your wife's family, you need to correct the mistake you have made on her Brazilian passport. You have created a double identity for this innocent girl and she wont like it when the confusion is hitting her later in future. Please correct this mistake. Home Office is helping you here by not renewing her passport.

[tchuca]

@brazuca, I just signed up for this message board to message YOU, but I can't do a private one.

Was your issue resolved? I am having the same problem renewing my UK passport because of how my Surname on the Brazilian differs from theirs. The problem is that I have one more passport.. USA. So both USA and UK match (in the Surname field), but not the Brazilian. I am at a loss on what to do. Please reply.

[brazUKa]

@brazuca, I just signed up for this message board to message YOU, but I can't do a private one.

Was your issue resolved? I am having the same problem renewing my UK passport because of how my Surname on the Brazilian differs from theirs. The problem is that I have one more passport.. USA. So both USA and UK match (in the Surname field), but not the Brazilian. I am at a loss on what to do. Please reply.

Hi there.
Yes it was resolved.
We ended up changing our daughter's name in the UK with a deep poll and her surname now matches the Brazilian passport e.g. Ana LIMA SILVA (using the mock name from my initial post).
It was the easiest route for us. The deep poll was done online and in a few days we received the document in the post, which we then forwarded it to the Passport Office with a letter explaining what happened and her UK passport was issued immediately.
So now whenever we/she's asked for her surname, we/she says the two names.

I believe you're Brazilian too from your post so my suggestion is to change your name in the UK and in the US as I believe this process is way simpler in both these countries than it would be to change the Brazilian documents.
Hope this helps.

[brazUKa]

*deed poll, not deep poll as I wrote twice.

[tchuca]

Thanks brazuca for the reply. Yes, I am Brazilian (by parents/raised), British by birth and naturalized American as I have lived in the US for over 20 years.

Glad to know things worked out for your daughter.

In my case, having a 3rd passport (USA) is the problem, as I would have to change all my documents in the USA, accounts, etc.. to the "double last name" so it would look like the Brazilian. Then once all that is done, I am sure the UK would still make me do the deed pool, because then, my UK birth certificate name, would not match the new name and I would also have to change it by deed poll.

This is all just too ridiculous!!

[brazUKa]

Following the issue of the UK passport we only had to change the name of our daughter at her school and doctor so wasn't that bad.
It will certainly be a lot more complicated for you as an adult with 3 passports. I hope you'll find a solution.
My daughter is also an Italian citizen but we haven't applied for her Italian passport yet but I imagine it will be straightforward now that the other two are fine - maybe we should hurry before Brexit.

If you're going for changing your name in the US I agree the UK will certainly want you to change the name in the UK too.
Even with all this hussle I still think it will be easier than trying to change your name in Brazil instead - you know our bureaucracy!

Good luck!

[tchuca]

brazuca, interesting that you mentioned the Italian.

Yesterday I spoke to a friend who is Brazilian, British AND she has lived in Italy for 18 years. She lives there as British.. but was thinking about getting the Italian Citizenship which she's eligible, since she's lived there for so long.

Problem is: In Italy, they also adopt the SURNAME: LAST *only* style.. because Italians are very particular that only the father's name matters and has always been that way. I do not know if they would ever agree to add a second name as "LIMA SILVA".

So I would research that FIRST, before having your daughter's passport issued.

On another note.. still in the same Topic... I also (like many Brazilians) have the option of applying for my Italian citizenship, which I am looking into doing now... after all this ridiculous UK mess!! In my case, it shouldn't take as long as for those who have to "get in line" at the Italian Consulate, because my case is "Judicial", not Administrative.. so I have to retain a lawyer in Italy to do the process which takes up to 2 years, but no more than that.

I am honestly giving up on this UK torture. I've had it!!

THEY are terrorizing innocent people. What they have put me through (financially and emotionally) since January (8 months now!), I cannot even describe. I did what they wanted... Gave up my husband's last name, chased documents, paid express fees, lost fees.. paid international calls to the Adviceline, was given WRONG ADVICE.. was tricked, lied to... I am LIVID, you have no idea!! And that's just the tip of the iceberg of what I have been through.

Now they are picking on the fact that Brazil sees Surname and Given name different than they & USA does??

That goes beyond ridiculous, absurd.. I have no words.

So my journey to Italian citizenship will soon begin....

[Taniasofiamourato]

@brazuca, I just signed up for this message board to message YOU, but I can't do a private one.

Was your issue resolved? I am having the same problem renewing my UK passport because of how my Surname on the Brazilian differs from theirs. The problem is that I have one more passport.. USA. So both USA and UK match (in the Surname field), but not the Brazilian. I am at a loss on what to do. Please reply.

i naturalized as british in February and i am also portuguese which also uses the same naming system as Brazil. The passport office did not want to issue me british passport because lile yours, the surname field had both last names so "SANTOS SILVA" (made up names) instead of how i had all my things in the uk as (last name : SILVA)

they wanted me to change the name in portugal but this is not possible due to not being able to have have more than "dois nomes propios" or " two given name". the embassy was useless at its best and alot of frustration occurred since they decided to cut my portuguese passport - so i would have to change it as they later admited to me. they wanted an offical letter from the embassy stating this rule and there was no where to get it - again, useless embassy.

what i did was i went to the portuguese offical ministry website and printed out both the laws in English and portuguese and using a highlighter, highlighting these laws. i also wrote a cover letter stating the laws saying that i was allowed an observation page and highlighted this to them. i also pointed out that as a british citizen, i was allowed to use any name i wanted in the uk as i had not committed any crimes, did not hold a criminal record and, was not trying to deceive/create multiple identities as i was more than happy to have an observation page in my british passport linking the two passports. i also pointed out that i was not able to travel to portugal using my ID card as it had expired and they had cut my only travel document.

this may be worth ago if the rules are similar in brazil regarding names.

They also had to issue me an apology and when i finally get round to renewing my portuguese passport, they are refunding me the cost of the passport plus any travel fees to the embassy - well im going to push for this last part anyway

[tchuca]

what i did was i went to the portuguese offical ministry website and printed out both the laws in English and portuguese and using a highlighter, highlighting these laws. i also wrote a cover letter stating the laws saying that i was allowed an observation page and highlighted this to them. i also pointed out that as a british citizen, i was allowed to use any name i wanted in the uk as i had not committed any crimes, did not hold a criminal record and, was not trying to deceive/create multiple identities as i was more than happy to have an observation page in my british passport linking the two passports. i also pointed out that i was not able to travel to portugal using my ID card as it had expired and they had cut my only travel document.

Wow! Thank you so much for writing all this!! Gives me some hope!

So they DID renew your passport already? It worked?

Thank you so very much! Muito obrigada!!

[Taniasofiamourato]

It was a first passport application but yes it worked with a turn around of about 4/5 weeks from the moment i applied to the moment i got it through my letter box. But essentially, i would assume it would work with a renewal. i just essentially pointed out their own laws to them
I also mentioned the fact that i had a holiday booked using my Portuguese passport 5 months before i applied for my british one (giving me plenty of time to get it back) and that i would pursue any costs that i incurred by them cutting my portuguese one.

[tchuca]

Thank you once again! I have also spent a lot of $$$ so far, which I don't agree I should have done, if they had given me the correct information when I first inquired about renewing the passport over 6 months ago. So I am collecting all the receipts in order to request a refund. Not to mention loss of income doing things/traveling to get things done.

[Marikistin]

Hi did you drop the family name of your wife on the British passport? Thanks.

[tchuca]

Marikistin, I am not sure who your question was for....

Nonetheless, I'd like to give an update just in case any British/Brazilian are following this thread.

HMPO asked for a letter from a Brazilian Authority explaining why Middle Names in Brazil are treated as a Last Name.

I could not get the Brazilian Consulate in Miami (my jurisdiction) to respond and give me such letter, so I tried emailing the Brazilian Consulate in London, who responded the SAME day and were SO helpful! I could not thank them enough.

They said they have a standard letter prepared for HMPO because they have received so many requests. This letter clearly explains that Brazil, as a Lusophone country, uses a maternal and a paternal last name when registering babies. They emailed the letter to me, I re-submitted my application, HMPO accepted it... and my new passport arrived so fast that I was shocked and cried a ton.

It only took 9 MONTHS!!

So glad this nightmare is over. Now comes Brexit... Oh boy.. LOL

[Marikistin]

Hi tchuca thanks for replying to me...and im glad you finally got your passport!!! Well done!!
Im from the Philippines and its kinda like that in our passport you get to have/use your paternal (surname) and maternal ( middle name) names used and at the time i was back home when we applied for the child passport thinking its the same with UK and now I dont even know how I have filled that form the first time and havingvthe dilemma of how to take my maternal/maiden name off of it without the fuss over it cos its like conjugated to my married last name... like this: e.g, GARCIA-SPENCER (mock name)
I sm thinking of phoning them before submitting the renewal application...what do you advise?thanks.

[tchuca]

Marikistin, I didn't quite understand if you were talking about just your Maiden names (maternal & paternal surnames) since you now also mentioned the Married name. That's a whole other issue.

You have to have the same exact names on all passports. Period.
I tried keeping my married name in the USA and changing from Maiden to Married in Brazil. Once that did not work (in Brazil - long story), I had to remove my married name in the USA and go back to my birth/maiden name (had to file a Name Change Petition in Court, then re-issue all my US documents - took about 2 months) (though I had already wasted 4-5 months trying to change my name in Brazil first).

Once that was done.. and I thought everything was perfect... I was shocked to learn that HMPO could not accept it just because in the USA & UK, the Surname is just the Paternal one. In Brazil it's Maternal + Paternal. All names were identical in all passports.. but the LOCATION of my middle/maternal name was different, only on the Brazilian passport.

That's when HMPO asked for a letter from a Brazilian Authority... and again, thanks to the Brazilian Consulate in London for providing me with that letter, because I would have not been able to obtain such letter from an authority IN BRAZIL. The Consulate in London is aware of the situation because they are right there and had other people going through the same thing.

Anyway, I explained all this because my suggestion is that you contact the Consulate/Embassy of Philippines in LONDON first! They should also be aware of this situation and might have a letter ready, just like the Brazilian Consulate did.

As for calling HMPO Adviceline... oh my... 7 out of 10 times that I called them (in a period of 9 months) they gave me wrong/different information, or were rude, one guy even laughed at my frustration (because I was getting angry). So be careful when calling them. Call multiple times with the same question, though after a while, I gave up on calling and started emailing instead (Liverpool@hmpo.gsi.gov.uk) That seemed to work better for me as I had answers in writing... though I ALSO got different answers by email (especially when it came to needing a Countersignatory or not).

Honestly.. This was a nightmare... and I'm so glad it's over. I even developed nocturnal anxiety from all this (because there's a lot more to the story in ref. to why changing my name in Brazil to married didn't work). Never had anxiety in my life.

Wishing you good luck!

PS: I just want to add, for anyone reading all these comments.. to completely IGNORE comments made by username "baddy" above.

He/she wrote, when replying to "brazuca":
"Please leave setiments of your wife's surname to be compounded with your surname. You got the Britisich passport for her without the compound name, you also registered her birth without the compound name; why then are you doing that for her Brazilian passport?"

OMG!! What an IGNORANT IDIOT!! He/she does not know the rules in Brazil and dare make such ridiculous statement.

I will quote part of the letter written by the Consulate of Brazil in case this moron is still reading this thread:

"In Brazil, as a Lusophone country, two or more surnames can be adopted. This cannot be modified via deed poll or any other declaration of will. The Brazilian legislation has specific rules with regards to names and surnames. The law defines as surnames all family names from the mother and the father, as well as from the spouse."

[Marikistin]

Marikistin, I didn't quite understand if you were talking about just your Maiden names (maternal & paternal surnames) since you now also mentioned the Married name. That's a whole other issue.

You have to have the same exact names on all passports. Period.
I tried keeping my married name in the USA and changing from Maiden to Married in Brazil. Once that did not work (in Brazil - long story), I had to remove my married name in the USA and go back to my birth/maiden name (had to file a Name Change Petition in Court, then re-issue all my US documents - took about 2 months) (though I had already wasted 4-5 months trying to change my name in Brazil first).

Once that was done.. and I thought everything was perfect... I was shocked to learn that HMPO could not accept it just because in the USA & UK, the Surname is just the Paternal one. In Brazil it's Maternal + Paternal. All names were identical in all passports.. but the LOCATION of my middle/maternal name was different, only on the Brazilian passport.

That's when HMPO asked for a letter from a Brazilian Authority... and again, thanks to the Brazilian Consulate in London for providing me with that letter, because I would have not been able to obtain such letter from an authority IN BRAZIL. The Consulate in London is aware of the situation because they are right there and had other people going through the same thing.

Anyway, I explained all this because my suggestion is that you contact the Consulate/Embassy of Philippines in LONDON first! They should also be aware of this situation and might have a letter ready, just like the Brazilian Consulate did.

As for calling HMPO Adviceline... oh my... 7 out of 10 times that I called them (in a period of 9 months) they gave me wrong/different information, or were rude, one guy even laughed at my frustration (because I was getting angry). So be careful when calling them. Call multiple times with the same question, though after a while, I gave up on calling and started emailing instead (Liverpool@hmpo.gsi.gov.uk) That seemed to work better for me as I had answers in writing... though I ALSO got different answers by email (especially when it came to needing a Countersignatory or not).

Honestly.. This was a nightmare... and I'm so glad it's over. I even developed nocturnal anxiety from all this (because there's a lot more to the story in ref. to why changing my name in Brazil to married didn't work). Never had anxiety in my life.

Wishing you good luck!

PS: I just want to add, for anyone reading all these comments.. to completely IGNORE comments made by username "baddy" above.

He/she wrote, when replying to "brazuca":
"Please leave setiments of your wife's surname to be compounded with your surname. You got the Britisich passport for her without the compound name, you also registered her birth without the compound name; why then are you doing that for her Brazilian passport?"

OMG!! What an IGNORANT IDIOT!! He/she does not know the rules in Brazil and dare make such ridiculous statement.

I will quote part of the letter written by the Consulate of Brazil in case this moron is still reading this thread:

"In Brazil, as a Lusophone country, two or more surnames can be adopted. This cannot be modified via deed poll or any other declaration of will. The Brazilian legislation has specific rules with regards to names and surnames. The law defines as surnames all family names from the mother and the father, as well as from the spouse."

thank you for taking the time to reply tchuca i greatly appreciate it.
upon researching more on surnames i have found out that Brazil,Spain,Portugal and Philippines has almost the same ruling with two or more surnames as i understood it...i might be wrong so please correct me. i have tried contacting the Philippine Embassy in London in vain...was very rude and unprofessional to say the least.
but the part of the letter you quote might be helpful if i ask the embassy to issue me a letter of that sort.
in the meantime, i will just leave my sons passport renewal until i get my citizenship sorted as its really stressing me out.

another option i was thinking is upon submission of the renewal application in the nearest future i will just not include the middle name (this is my maiden surname) on the application form and see what happens.