ILR 5 yr route - Job creation issue

[gabbi]

Dear Moderators

I recently submitted my ILR application but I am little worried over job creation matter. Can the senior members please advise if I have correctly completed the job table and if it fulfils the requirement.

Job1:
Emp A full time: 1 April 2017 - 15 Jan 2018
(Emp A: in may 2017 she worked 122 hours and in Jan 18 she worked 66 hours - All other months 130 + hours)
Emp C full time: 1 June 2018 - 31 Aug 2018

Job 2
Emp B part time: 1 April 2017 - 30 Nov 2018 (100 hours a month, 20 hours a week)
Emp D part time: 1 June 2018 - 30 Nov 2018 (70 hours a month, 15 hours a week)

I am relying on transitional arrangements, Tier 1 Entrepreneur approved November 2013 and extension was approved end of March 2017. Does this rule applies for my application?? "the hours of workers in 2 part time jobs can be combined to add up to 30 hours a week or more and form the equivalent of one full time job, as long as two part time jobs exist for 12 months"

Please guide so that I can plan on what to do next if I haven't fulfilled the job creation requirement.

Regards
Gabbi

PS: I had other id previously but don't remember any details, hope this is not a problem. I will only be using this id in future so the previous one can be deleted. Thanks

[CR001]

Useful to at least state what the other user ID is

[gabbi]

I seriously can't find the details and don't remember the id otherwise I would have used the same one.

[marcnath]

Dear Moderators

I recently submitted my ILR application but I am little worried over job creation matter. Can the senior members please advise if I have correctly completed the job table and if it fulfils the requirement.

Job1:
Emp A full time: 1 April 2017 - 15 Jan 2018
(Emp A: in may 2017 she worked 122 hours and in Jan 18 she worked 66 hours - All other months 130 + hours)
Emp C full time: 1 June 2018 - 31 Aug 2018

Job 2
Emp B part time: 1 April 2017 - 30 Nov 2018 (100 hours a month, 20 hours a week)
Emp D part time: 1 June 2018 - 30 Nov 2018 (70 hours a month, 15 hours a week)

I am relying on transitional arrangements, Tier 1 Entrepreneur approved November 2013 and extension was approved end of March 2017. Does this rule applies for my application?? "the hours of workers in 2 part time jobs can be combined to add up to 30 hours a week or more and form the equivalent of one full time job, as long as two part time jobs exist for 12 months"

Please guide so that I can plan on what to do next if I haven't fulfilled the job creation requirement.

Regards
Gabbi

PS: I had other id previously but don't remember any details, hope this is not a problem. I will only be using this id in future so the previous one can be deleted. Thanks

The highlighted portion does not apply under the transitional arrangement.
Job 1 gives out about 11.5 months of FT
Job 2 seems to have 14 months of Part time (1 April 17 to 31 May 2018) and 6 months of FT (2 employees from 1 June 18 to 30 Nov 18). Did you indicate this as part-time or full-time job in the Job table ?

Under a strict reading of the immigration rules, this does not meet the requirement.

The rules say


(b) “The equivalent of” a full time job means two or more part time jobs that add up to 30 hours per week .......
.....
....
(f) If jobs are being combined the employees being relied upon must be clearly identified by the applicant in their application.

How have you identified the jobs being combined as you have only one job for employee B and D ?

However, cases such as yours have been approved before so hopefully it will work out ok.

[gabbi]

Dear Marcnath,
Thank you very much for responding to my post. Please find my answers below:

Job 1 gives out about 11.5 months of FT.

Can you please confirm how job 1 adds up to 11.5 months?? I calculated it to 12 months exactly
Emp A: Apr 17, June 17 to Dec 17 = 8 months FT
Emp A: May 17 is less than 130 hours a month which makes it to .5 month FT and Jan 18 is 2 weeks full time which makes it to .5 month FT (total for May 17 and Jan 18 = 1 month FT)
Emp C: June 18 – Aug 18 = 3 months FT
Total: 8 + 1 + 3 = 12, my calculation is incorrect???

Job 2 seems to have 14 months of Part time (1 April 17 to 31 May 2018) and 6 months of FT (2 employees from 1 June 18 to 30 Nov 18). Did you indicate this as part-time or full-time job in the Job table ?

On the online form I indicated it as part time and gave details in my covering letter explaining 14 months of Part time for EMP B (1 April 17 to 31 May 2018) are equivalent to 7 full time months and 6 months of part time of 2 employees (from 1 June 18 to 30 Nov 18) equivalent to 6 full time months, altogether totalling up to 13 months. Is this good enough???

Under a strict reading of the immigration rules, this does not meet the requirement.

The rules say


(b) “The equivalent of” a full time job means two or more part time jobs that add up to 30 hours per week .......
.....
....
(f) If jobs are being combined the employees being relied upon must be clearly identified by the applicant in their application.

How have you identified the jobs being combined as you have only one job for employee B and D ?

I filled the form as below
Job 1
Job Title: Admin assistant
Job creation date: April 201x
Emp A, start date, current status: not working, job end date, hourly pay rate and Full time
Emp C’s start date, current status: not working, job end date, hourly pay rate and Full time

Added Job 2
Job Title: Sales associate
Job creation date: April 201x
Emp B, start date, current status: working, hourly pay rate and part time
Emp D, start date, current status: working, hourly pay rate and part time

Emp B & D’s job duties are same, only difference is that they deal in different markets. Do you think on the form I should have had added job 3 for Emp D and then in the letter I should have explained job 2 & 3 are being combined? is there anything I can/should do now??
I had another full time employee for 6 months (sales associate, from April 17 – Oct 17) can I use these months somehow??

However, cases such as yours have been approved before so hopefully it will work out ok – I really hope so too but please advise if there is anything I should do at this stage? like sending more details/documents through post.

[marcnath]

Dear Marcnath,
Thank you very much for responding to my post. Please find my answers below:

Job 1 gives out about 11.5 months of FT.

Can you please confirm how job 1 adds up to 11.5 months?? I calculated it to 12 months exactly
Emp A: Apr 17, June 17 to Dec 17 = 8 months FT
Emp A: May 17 is less than 130 hours a month which makes it to .5 month FT and Jan 18 is 2 weeks full time which makes it to .5 month FT (total for May 17 and Jan 18 = 1 month FT)

There is no such thing a 0.5 month FT. A job is either FT or PT. So, the CW will treat May 17 as PT and as there is no other PT job it can be combined with, it will be disregarded for calculation purposes.
The immigration rules only specify weeks, not months. So, what is important is 52 weeks. For example, if the employee only worked 28 days in May, then 120 hours would be 4 FT weeks and you would have 54 weeks of FT job. So you really need to calculate the actual number of weeks that has more than 30 hrs each.

Job 2 seems to have 14 months of Part time (1 April 17 to 31 May 2018) and 6 months of FT (2 employees from 1 June 18 to 30 Nov 18). Did you indicate this as part-time or full-time job in the Job table ?

On the online form I indicated it as part time and gave details in my covering letter explaining 14 months of Part time for EMP B (1 April 17 to 31 May 2018) are equivalent to 7 full time months and 6 months of part time of 2 employees (from 1 June 18 to 30 Nov 18) equivalent to 6 full time months, altogether totalling up to 13 months. Is this good enough???

The explanation in the cover letter helps but as explained earlier, the immigration rules has no method specified for treating 14 months PT as 7 months FT.

I filled the form as below
Job 1
Job Title: Admin assistant
Job creation date: April 201x
Emp A, start date, current status: not working, job end date, hourly pay rate and Full time
Emp C’s start date, current status: not working, job end date, hourly pay rate and Full time

Added Job 2
Job Title: Sales associate
Job creation date: April 201x
Emp B, start date, current status: working, hourly pay rate and part time
Emp D, start date, current status: working, hourly pay rate and part time

Emp B & D’s job duties are same, only difference is that they deal in different markets. Do you think on the form I should have had added job 3 for Emp D and then in the letter I should have explained job 2 & 3 are being combined? is there anything I can/should do now??
I had another full time employee for 6 months (sales associate, from April 17 – Oct 17) can I use these months somehow??

However, cases such as yours have been approved before so hopefully it will work out ok – I really hope so too but please advise if there is anything I should do at this stage? like sending more details/documents through post.

Using the additional employee would help considerably.
So, you should immediately send an updated Job Table (Job 3 - the sales associate) and all the employee documents. HO is obliged to consider all documents received before a decision is made. Since you have only just submitted the application, you should be safe.

If HO does not accept combining 14 PT employee to 7 FT, you may still be short by a couple of weeks. So, in Dec, you should send the FPS and payslips for the Emp B and D (assuming they continue to remain employed) to make up for any shortfall.

[gabbi]

Many thanks for your valuable advise. Few more clarifications needed please

Using the additional employee would help considerably.
So, you should immediately send an updated Job Table (Job 3 - the sales associate) and all the employee documents. HO is obliged to consider all documents received before a decision is made. Since you have only just submitted the application, you should be safe.

If HO does not accept combining 14 PT employee to 7 FT, you may still be short by a couple of weeks. So, in Dec, you should send the FPS and payslips for the Emp B and D (assuming they continue to remain employed) to make up for any shortfall.

I am about to send documents for Job 3 for which I have 1 employee X 9 Months FT (May 2017 - Jan 2018) so from these 9 months can I combine 2 months with job 1 and use rest of the 7 months to be combined with job 2? If I do so i will have the following combination

Job 1: 11.5 Months FT (Combined with Job 3) 2 months FT = 13.5 Months FT
Job 2: 6 Months x 2 PT employees (combined with Job 3) 7 months FT = 13 Months FT
What do you think??

In this case I guess I will not have to send December's payroll for job 2, am i right??

And what should I say why I didn't send these documents earlier?

Regards

[aman90]

No explanation required!
Send as
Subject: Additional information, reference no, name, nationality, dob
Enclosed docs in support of...for consideration..
1.
2.
3

[aman90]

In my calculation of ur situation even after adding another employee april-oct18 you'll still be short of atleast a week (and that is after giving you a lot margin)..so best to send December FPS and Payslips of those employees as well as documentation pertaining to new additional employee.
when does ur current visa expire?

[marcnath]

Many thanks for your valuable advise. Few more clarifications needed please

Using the additional employee would help considerably.
So, you should immediately send an updated Job Table (Job 3 - the sales associate) and all the employee documents. HO is obliged to consider all documents received before a decision is made. Since you have only just submitted the application, you should be safe.

If HO does not accept combining 14 PT employee to 7 FT, you may still be short by a couple of weeks. So, in Dec, you should send the FPS and payslips for the Emp B and D (assuming they continue to remain employed) to make up for any shortfall.

I am about to send documents for Job 3 for which I have 1 employee X 9 Months FT (May 2017 - Jan 2018) so from these 9 months can I combine 2 months with job 1 and use rest of the 7 months to be combined with job 2? If I do so i will have the following combination

Job 1: 11.5 Months FT (Combined with Job 3) 2 months FT = 13.5 Months FT
Job 2: 6 Months x 2 PT employees (combined with Job 3) 7 months FT = 13 Months FT
What do you think??

In this case I guess I will not have to send December's payroll for job 2, am i right??

And what should I say why I didn't send these documents earlier?

Regards

Since you are eligible for transitional arrangements, you do not need to combine Job 1 and Job 3 or Job 2 and Job3. They can be separate jobs.
Just send in the Job 3 documents.
That will leave you with
Job 1: 11.5 months
Job 2: 6 months FT (assume the 14 months PT will not be counted)
Job 3: 9 months

The total is 26.5 months - well above the required

[gabbi]

Dear Marcnath and other senior members

Need your advise again please.

I applied in Nov 2018 and sent more documents for employment after few days of submitting the application, haven't heard from HO since then.

I am concerned as transitional arrangements will be ending in 1st week of April 2019, so God-forbid if my application is rejected after end of transitional arrangements what are my chances to make a fresh application, I mean my employment is good enough or I need more employees?

My employee situation is as under:

Job 1: 11.5 months FT
(emp A: April 17 & June 17 - 15 Jan 18 = 8.5 months) & (Emp C June 18 - Aug 2018 = 3 Months)

Job 2: 11 months FT (2 part timers from June 2018 -- on going) if they are still employed till April end

Job 3: 9 months FT (1 Emp from May 2017 - Jan 2018) 9 Months

From the above it looks like I need to hire 1 Ft employee for 3 months against job 3 to make it 12 months
and 1 FT employee for a month against job 1 to make it 12 months. Also as per my understanding the 2 part timers I have right now can't be utilized as they both didn't complete 12 months simultaneously. Please suggest how to qualify for a fresh application post transitional arrangements, (hoping and praying I don't have to go through this but it's better to be prepared).

[marcnath]

Dear Marcnath and other senior members

Need your advise again please.

I applied in Nov 2018 and sent more documents for employment after few days of submitting the application, haven't heard from HO since then.

I am concerned as transitional arrangements will be ending in 1st week of April 2019, so God-forbid if my application is rejected after end of transitional arrangements what are my chances to make a fresh application, I mean my employment is good enough or I need more employees?

My employee situation is as under:

Job 1: 11.5 months FT
(emp A: April 17 & June 17 - 15 Jan 18 = 8.5 months) & (Emp C June 18 - Aug 2018 = 3 Months)

Job 2: 11 months FT (2 part timers from June 2018 -- on going) if they are still employed till April end

Job 3: 9 months FT (1 Emp from May 2017 - Jan 2018) 9 Months

From the above it looks like I need to hire 1 Ft employee for 3 months against job 3 to make it 12 months
and 1 FT employee for a month against job 1 to make it 12 months. Also as per my understanding the 2 part timers I have right now can't be utilized as they both didn't complete 12 months simultaneously. Please suggest how to qualify for a fresh application post transitional arrangements, (hoping and praying I don't have to go through this but it's better to be prepared).

In the worst case, if you need to do a fresh application after April, then you need two jobs of 12 months each. So, another 0.5 months of Job 1 and 3 months of Job 3 or 1 month of job 2 (depending on when exactly you will need to apply).

There is no requirement for the part times to have been employed simultaneously. The only requirement that each should have been employed for 12 months.

[gabbi]

Hi again

For job 3 can I hire two part time workers to work on job share basis for three months to fill up the shortfall?? If I do so would I safely meet the post transitional requirement or it will make things complicated and these two new part timers will be classed altogether as a new job??

Regards

[gabbi]

Another question, I am considering to hire someone who is British national but her passport got expired as she is not a frequent traveler, can this passport be used as proof of settled worker??

Thanks in advance!!

[marcnath]

Hi again

For job 3 can I hire two part time workers to work on job share basis for three months to fill up the shortfall?? If I do so would I safely meet the post transitional requirement or it will make things complicated and these two new part timers will be classed altogether as a new job??

Regards

In my opinion, if the two employees are working part time at the same period, you should be ok.

Immigration rules only require full time jobs, not full time employees.

[marcnath]

Another question, I am considering to hire someone who is British national but her passport got expired as she is not a frequent traveler, can this passport be used as proof of settled worker??

Thanks in advance!!

Sure, No requirement for passport being valid

[gabbi]

Hi

I got my approval letter today, brp will be delivered withing next 7 days. Details on timeline thread.

This forum has helped me throughout this long and stressful journey. Special thanks to Marcnath.

Best wishes and prayers for all those who are waiting.