EEA2 Compulsory for rights, not optional

[Magarhe]

EEA2 Compulsory for rights, not optional

I am a non-EU citizen (Australian) with an EU Wife (Hungarian – an A8 country).

My wife has just completed her 12 month WRS.

I have had an FMRS for 12 months (expires tomorrow, the 6th of June 2008).

I have applied for my EEA2 and my wife has applied for EEA1 – we sent the documents yesterday (together, to the EEA1 address, as advised).

I have a limited company registered here in the UK through which I work.

I have been doing work for a big financial company who tell me today that their lawyers are saying that I CANNOT continue to work in the UK unless either myself or my wife applies for the appropriate thing – EEA1 Registration Certificate for my wife, EEA2 Residence Card for myself. They claim their lawyers are top lawyers with great understanding of the law and consultants to the government blah blah blah

So – does that mean that the Residence Card is not in fact an optional confirmation of your rights, but a NECESSARY item without which, you do not actually have those rights? (to reside / work). I mean, it is one thing to say someone has rights but if they cannot exercise them (e.g work) then they don’t really have them, do they?

What are people’s thoughts on this?

I found it odd they advised that either my wife or myself apply.

We have of course applied, but now there is the question of whether they will allow me to continue working until I get the confirmation letter from Home office. That might be a few weeks, who knows. UPDATE – they have spoken again with their lawyer and have been told that if I email confirmation that I have applied as a family member under European law for further leave to remain in the UK (EA2 form) and confirm the date that I sent this application off, it is reasonable for me to continue to work prior to receiving acknowledgement from the authorities.

So that is a relief but again, aren’t these things meant to be OPTIONAL?

Also, my wife would like to travel in Europe during the time that they have her European passport. She has an Australian passport as well, and can travel on that, although it may cause problems when re-entering the UK. The Home Office said it was OK for her to travel on her Australian passport but that it could be a hassle coming back, but if she explained her situation it should be OK. Has anyone had weird problems doing something similar?

Note a year ago I lost a contract because I did not have the “optionalâ€

[thsths]

They claim their lawyers are top lawyers with great understanding of the law and consultants to the government blah blah blah

Well, they are wrong. It is true that the government claims that you need to have a residence card. But they just do that in informative texts, it is not law. And in any case European law would take precedence over national law, if there is a conflict.

So – does that mean that the Residence Card is not in fact an optional confirmation of your rights, but a NECESSARY item without which, you do not actually have those rights?

Factually yes: you will be asked for a residence card on many occasions, and you can not take everybody to court. The government is really to blame, because they issue incorrect information, making this issue pervasive.

I mean, it is one thing to say someone has rights but if they cannot exercise them (e.g work) then they don’t really have them, do they?

Well, it is a difference, because if you come to a really significant issue, you can always take it to court.

they have spoken again with their lawyer and have been told that if I email confirmation that I have applied as a family member under European law for further leave to remain in the UK (EA2 form) and confirm the date that I sent this application off, it is reasonable for me to continue to work prior to receiving acknowledgement from the authorities.

See, they are not actually being unreasonable, they just want to cover their a****s.

Also, my wife would like to travel in Europe during the time that they have her European passport.

Does she have an ID card? If not, it may be worth applying. You can also ask for the passport to be sent back, but that process seems to be affected by the chaos, too.

Tom

[Mr Rusty]

"UPDATE – they have spoken again with their lawyer and have been told that if I email confirmation that I have applied as a family member under European law for further leave to remain in the UK (EA2 form) and confirm the date that I sent this application off, it is reasonable for me to continue to work prior to receiving acknowledgement from the authorities. "

OK, so they got it right in the end.

But you're quite right, the UKBA website says:

"Non-EEA national family members can apply for a family member residence stamp to confirm his/her right of residence under European law."

"Can apply", not "Must apply". However, given the Government's declared intention to crack down on illegal working, with £10,000 per head fines or prosecution of "rogue" employers, any employer may be forgiven for wanting to make sure. Unfortunately, if their corporate lawyers haven't previously had much to do with this sort of thing they're on the same learning curve as everybody else.

There is this bizarre dichotomy between the Government's bending over backwards to comply with the European regulations and not insist on residence cards, and the risk nowadays that anyone who can't readily prove their right to live and work in the UK may find themselves out of work, or worse, languishing in a police cell.

But with proposals for all foreign nationals to have an identity card, itcan only go one way.

[thsths]

But with proposals for all foreign nationals to have an identity card, itcan only go one way.

I do not think this is compatible with European law. I am pretty certain that under EU law, you cannot be forced to do anything that British citizens do not have to do.

Anyway, the ID card is only a smoke screen. The real issue behind it is that when issued with an ID card, you are also entered into a central database. It is then your responsibility to keep that data up to date (and you will have to pay for each update, too). So I intend to stay out of that database as long as possible.

Now I am not against registration of residence. But you already have to register for council tax, for the NHS, for TV tax, and on the electoral role. And I firmly believe that another database is not going to solve any problems.

Tom

[Magarhe]

Thanks all for your thoughts, unfortunately these things are true - not legally essential, but by golly, practically essential!

I wish I had known all this before I came over to the UK, I could have planned better to get everything sorted out. I thought I did have it all planned nicely but woah the reality kicks in.

Another thing that got me, I always thought that the EEA1 had a rapid turnaround, say, 2 weeks, by EU law stating that it had to be a fast turnaround. I wrongly assumed that EEA2 would be fast as well. WOAH not true at all, up to 6 months delay, what the? Luckily just did some travelling but not very happy I can't travel for up to 6 months ... yeargh.

I know work is not being unreasonable, but these people have the top lawyers who themselves don't really seem to know what is going on. Madness.

I have nothing against ID cards etc.. but I am opposed to neverending costs, database updates etc... In my opinion when my wife completed her 12 month WRS then automatically she + myself should be given new status and mailed out the cards. Or pick them up. Not go through this process again. It is not efficient. Even having a stamp in a passport - what is the point? All checks have to go through the central database using your passport number. Or at least, they should.