Case Workers an irony or a joke --- FLR rejected

[hello_aman]

I DON'T KNOW.. How many people will feel this is funny or hilarious or some people might learn a lesson... but I thought it is worth while sharing my experience with the wider community who might encounter a similar problem or be in a similar situation...
After 4 years of being in the UK I today got a letter from the Home Office regarding my application of further leave to remain (FLR),, Guess what!!! .. Negative.. Rejected..

When I opened the letter this evening I was very positive because due to my current financial position I could never in my worst dreams have thought that my application would be rejected.

To tell you guys about my position how I came to this country and how I performed during the last 4 years here is a brief:

I landed in this country in June 2004 with a permanent employment with a reputed company paying me salary of £36,000. Then, I got on and started my own company in 2006 which had a turnover of around £91,000 in 2006-2007. I bought a house in 2005 which is worth now 325,000. My spouse got a job after 6 months of coming to the UK and was earning a decent salary. We had a daughter in Feb 2007 and after a years gap she has got a job worth £40,000. So i.e. we are doing pretty well.

Our visa was expiring in May 2008 and we applied on 15th August 2008 under the Tier 1 category for HSMP. Today I received the result of my application and guess what it was rejected… I was shell shocked and could not believe it. The letter I got stated the following:

Previous Earnings: Points granted 0 but should have been granted 45
I had claimed 45 points under this category because my earnings were way above £40,000. According to there reason why they granted me 0 points was because of the following:
o They were trying to match the net profit of the company (which I claimed as my net salary) with total net Invoice figure which was above £90,000.
o Second reason they gave me was that the figures shown in the Invoices do not match with the credits in my Personal Bank Statements (Funny How will my personal bank statements show my company statements)

For this category I had submitted the following two document:
o Company Accounts for year 2007-2008
o All the Invoices which I received from my Client during that period.

UK Experience: Points granted 0 but should have been granted 5
The reason they gave me was that since I did not get any points in Previous Earnings I was granted 0 points for this category.

English Language: Points granted 0 but should have granted 10
Even though I had qualified for this category in 2004 when I had submitted the relevant documents from my University and also checking it online on their website I was granted 0 points. For your information I did my Bachelor’s degree in Business Economics from Delhi University and they gave me 30 points for Educational criteria. Still they did not give me relevant points for this category. Strange isn’t it…

Well after this long write-up.. I don’t know how many guys I have bored but still for the people who are interested and guide me what to do next here are my following options:

- Appeal – They have sent me the forms how I can appeal
- Leave the Country – Voluntarily
- Apply Again

I would love to hear from people who have experienced a similar situation as mine or who can guide me what to do next. I need to appeal within the next 5 working days so would appreciate if someone can guide me how to appeal.. whether through a Lawyer or on my own… If someone knows about any good lawyers who specialise in HSMP appeals it would be great….

Thanks
Aman

[pr4t4p]

I DON'T KNOW.. How many people will feel this is funny or hilarious or some people might learn a lesson... but I thought it is worth while sharing my experience with the wider community who might encounter a similar problem or be in a similar situation...
After 4 years of being in the UK I today got a letter from the Home Office regarding my application of further leave to remain (FLR),, Guess what!!! .. Negative.. Rejected..

When I opened the letter this evening I was very positive because due to my current financial position I could never in my worst dreams have thought that my application would be rejected.

To tell you guys about my position how I came to this country and how I performed during the last 4 years here is a brief:





I landed in this country in June 2004 with a permanent employment with a reputed company paying me salary of £36,000. Then, I got on and started my own company in 2006 which had a turnover of around £91,000 in 2006-2007. I bought a house in 2005 which is worth now 325,000. My spouse got a job after 6 months of coming to the UK and was earning a decent salary. We had a daughter in Feb 2007 and after a years gap she has got a job worth £40,000. So i.e. we are doing pretty well.

Our visa was expiring in May 2008 and we applied on 15th August 2008 under the Tier 1 category for HSMP. Today I received the result of my application and guess what it was rejected… I was shell shocked and could not believe it. The letter I got stated the following:

Previous Earnings: Points granted 0 but should have been granted 45
I had claimed 45 points under this category because my earnings were way above £40,000. According to there reason why they granted me 0 points was because of the following:
o They were trying to match the net profit of the company (which I claimed as my net salary) with total net Invoice figure which was above £90,000.
o Second reason they gave me was that the figures shown in the Invoices do not match with the credits in my Personal Bank Statements (Funny How will my personal bank statements show my company statements)

For this category I had submitted the following two document:
o Company Accounts for year 2007-2008
o All the Invoices which I received from my Client during that period.

UK Experience: Points granted 0 but should have been granted 5
The reason they gave me was that since I did not get any points in Previous Earnings I was granted 0 points for this category.

English Language: Points granted 0 but should have granted 10
Even though I had qualified for this category in 2004 when I had submitted the relevant documents from my University and also checking it online on their website I was granted 0 points. For your information I did my Bachelor’s degree in Business Economics from Delhi University and they gave me 30 points for Educational criteria. Still they did not give me relevant points for this category. Strange isn’t it…

Well after this long write-up.. I don’t know how many guys I have bored but still for the people who are interested and guide me what to do next here are my following options:

- Appeal – They have sent me the forms how I can appeal
- Leave the Country – Voluntarily
- Apply Again

I would love to hear from people who have experienced a similar situation as mine or who can guide me what to do next. I need to appeal within the next 5 working days so would appreciate if someone can guide me how to appeal.. whether through a Lawyer or on my own… If someone knows about any good lawyers who specialise in HSMP appeals it would be great….

Thanks
Aman

Hi Aman,
Its really sad to know that your application is rejected. But am fairly sure that you dont really have to worry about this. After the JR all old hsmp should be treated under old critieria which is economic activitity alone, in your case they haven't and in all honesty they are in contempt of court.
All you have to do i guess is appeal the case with the JR judgement and ask them to assess you case under old critieria.
If you need more information on this please search in this forum itself there is a big thread going on regarding the same.
I wish you all the best and hope you'll be fine very soon.
regards,

[republique]

Yes you did it very wrong.
You have to show income and you didn't.
You company accounts does not show the income you received from your invoicing. You should have provided the bank statements to your business bank accounts, matching the invoice to the deposits made into your account.
Then other things like how you paid yourself on your personal bank statement and if you are incorporated a p60 or self assessment that has been validated by the HMRC. What you provided you could have made it all up and transfered money between bank accounts.

Since you wrote your visa was expiring in May and you applied in August, something is wrong so you will have to clarify this info.

If your visa has expired you can not reapply, you have to appeal
If your visa has not expired and you just wrote it wrong, then you better reapply before it does and do a better job at providing them the evidence they are looking for.

The moral of the story is and always has been that you have to spell it out for the HO with clear proof. If you make them have to figure it out, then you will pay the price with a rejection.

[DarkMaelstorm]

Lawl.

Okay, so he may've not been most meticulous with everything on paper. ZOMG! He didn’t match the statements, so let’s toss the rest of the application facts and history out of the window.

I am not disagreeing with your critique, Republique, but I am very much distancing myself from rhetoric like ‘spell it out for Home Office’. That's in my view, one of the most toned-down. . . no, conservative ways of describing just how much back-bending one must do for HO.

FFS, they didn’t even give him experience or language points. So as far as common sense is the context of discussion, one should toot the village horn over just how little effort some of these case workers/reviewers put into actually examining an application that actually costs applicants hundreds of good pounds. If he paid three-hunred-and-something for some sloppy hick to ignore most of the facts of his case, then he’s damn well entitled to hoist a self-righteous chip on his shoulder.

Now I don’t know if you’re looking for advice on what to do next, but you should probably appeal and make the clarifications that Republique just suggested.

Hey, in my view, this is the moral of the story: With Home Office, be very thorough. Be so thorough that even Stephen Hawking’s could get a brain aneurism fromt the level of depth in your case. Of course, at the same time, keep it so plain and clear that even a spastic could somehow manage to comprehend the arguments in your application.

Additional moral: It’s about time people also realise that the system is somewhat demented, and that one would be very foolish to think that Home Office is completely devoid of the occasional slacker/overpaid desk-monkey who will exert not even a trace of effort towards actually examining the case.

[hello_aman]

Thanks for your replies guys. Correction Republique.. I applied on 15 April 2008 and not in August.. I think you are right in saying that everything needs to be spelt out for them.

I called the Home Office today and spoke to one of the case workers. When I inquired about the way they have handled my case and why were they trying to match Invoice figures in my Personal Bank statements and how can net profit of a company match net or gross value of Invoices?? She did not have reply and became bit nervous and told me that she can't do anything now. I asked her if I could send my Company's bank statements then they can corroborate all the figures and the problem will be resolved. But answer was again no.. She did not know what I can do next, what were my legal Rights but she was kind enough to find out and told me that I have only one way to go and that is Appeal. They do not do any reviews as they used to do under HSMP. Under Tier 1 if your application is rejected they only option you have is to Appeal.

Well I had to search for some lawyer today so made lot of phone calls. So tomorrow I will be meeting my accountant and a Lawyer. Guys one thing I can tell you that the lawyers are not cheap.. They can charge you anything from £100 for first meeting to £1200 if they pursue your case.
Tomorrow I will sort out some more paper work and then appeal on Monday. I have been given 10 business working days to appeal. Let's see how it goes.

I would really appreciate if I can get some advice from people who might have gone through my situation or have appealed before. Would love to hear from them as what was there experience and what should I expect next?

Once again thanks everyone who replied and I much appreciate your time and support.

[republique]

Thanks for your replies guys. Correction Republique.. I applied on 15 April 2008 and not in August.. I think you are right in saying that everything needs to be spelt out for them.

I called the Home Office today and spoke to one of the case workers. When I inquired about the way they have handled my case and why were they trying to match Invoice figures in my Personal Bank statements and how can net profit of a company match net or gross value of Invoices?? She did not have reply and became bit nervous and told me that she can't do anything now. I asked her if I could send my Company's bank statements then they can corroborate all the figures and the problem will be resolved. But answer was again no.. She did not know what I can do next, what were my legal Rights but she was kind enough to find out and told me that I have only one way to go and that is Appeal. They do not do any reviews as they used to do under HSMP. Under Tier 1 if your application is rejected they only option you have is to Appeal.

Well I had to search for some lawyer today so made lot of phone calls. So tomorrow I will be meeting my accountant and a Lawyer. Guys one thing I can tell you that the lawyers are not cheap.. They can charge you anything from £100 for first meeting to £1200 if they pursue your case.
Tomorrow I will sort out some more paper work and then appeal on Monday. I have been given 10 business working days to appeal. Let's see how it goes.

I would really appreciate if I can get some advice from people who might have gone through my situation or have appealed before. Would love to hear from them as what was there experience and what should I expect next?

Once again thanks everyone who replied and I much appreciate your time and support.

So has your visa expired and if not when does it expire?

[OFCHARITY]

Since you obviously have enough points to qualify and if you have time left on your current visa, I think you should reappy, making sure to go through the guidance and provide exactly the documents they require in the exact manner they require. It can seem ridiculous but remember that caseworkers tend to work to the letter of the law and will reject applications that do not conform to the letter of the law regardless of whether it is otherwise obvious that you meet all the requirements. I imagine they go through and tick off boxes to indicate the evidence provided and if they are not able to tick all the boxes then the application is rejected.

A good covering letter in your situation is important, explain anything that may lead to questions. Get your accountant to write a letter explaining your financial positon, how much dividend and salary you pay yourself and even the fact that your personal account is seperate from your business account. Provide the business bank statements, your personal statements, invoices, dividend vouchers, P60, letter from your university stating your degree was taught in English exactly as the guidance stipulates. I have been to the Appeal Tribunal and heard the home office representative ask what are dividends?, the moral of the story is that HO caseworkers do not always have the knowledge that you might assume they do, so never assume anything, make everything clear.

[republique]

Since you obviously have enough points to qualify and if you have time left on your current visa, I think you should reappy, making sure to go through the guidance and provide exactly the documents they require in the exact manner they require. It can seem ridiculous but remember that caseworkers tend to work to the letter of the law and will reject applications that do not conform to the letter of the law regardless of whether it is otherwise obvious that you meet all the requirements. I imagine they go through and tick off boxes to indicate the evidence provided and if they are not able to tick all the boxes then the application is rejected.

A good covering letter in your situation is important, explain anything that may lead to questions. Get your accountant to write a letter explaining your financial positon, how much dividend and salary you pay yourself and even the fact that your personal account is seperate from your business account. Provide the business bank statements, your personal statements, invoices, dividend vouchers, P60, letter from your university stating your degree was taught in English exactly as the guidance stipulates. I have been to the Appeal Tribunal and heard the home office representative ask what are dividends?, the moral of the story is that HO caseworkers do not always have the knowledge that you might assume they do, so never assume anything, make everything clear.

Exactly, if your visa isn't expired, then reapply and document everything well and you won't have any problems or need any expensive solicitors.
And I wouldn't take the person on the phone not be able to ansser you as to any merit to your rejected case. It is hard to actually give good feedback without the case and evidence in front of you so I woudn't bother trying to salvage something that has already been deemed in tatters by the HO.

[Frontier Mole]

R- The visa expired in May 2008.

Appeal - I think you have an excellent chance of winning. DO NOT USE A LAWYER. Waste of time & money. It all relates to fiscal understanding and your accountant can provide a statement or appear in court on your behalf as a witness. The lawyer will issue your appeal paperwork and present your case. In doing so will bill you more than your accountant and not add much in the way of value to your appeal.

Before the legal types decry my advice- you do not send an ambulance to put out a fire!

This case appears to be simply a lack of business knowledge by the caseworker scoring the application. At the same time the caseworker is not expected to perform accounting functions to gather the evidence.
UKBA staff are not trained to understand annual accounts, have no knowledge of general business basics or financial activity and certainly do not know the difference between directors remuneration in a private bank account compared to a business trading bank account.

I agree in part with Republique, if the audit trail between the business accounts to the actual personal earnings was more clearly demonstrated you would in all probability not have been refused. I think it is safe to say you assumed that the caseworker would be able to make the leap - that is not their role. Their role is to assess the evidence which you supply. It is clear they made some (poorly directed) attempt to match your invoices with the bank account supplied.

With that in mind your appeal should deal with the matter of explaining how the top line becomes the bottom line and that the bottom line becomes your GROSS income before personal taxation. Yes as maelstrom so tactful put you need to produce the idiots guide.

Ps the appeal judge is no more likely to have an understanding of the business accounts than the caseworker so it is not just a UKBA problem.

[jei2]

Lawl.


Hey, in my view, this is the moral of the story: With Home Office, be very thorough. Be so thorough that even Stephen Hawking’s could get a brain aneurism fromt the level of depth in your case. Of course, at the same time, keep it so plain and clear that even a spastic could somehow manage to comprehend the arguments in your application.

I'm not an HSMP specialist thank god - got few enough brain cells left as it is! But I think the advice above (excepting the disability terminology) could not be better put.

You would think that given the calibre of people the UK purports to want to attract they would have more leniency and better trained staff.

The bottom line is though that if you relied more on highlighting your financial success in the UK rather than actually providing the relevant evidence of it you would be refused and might have a difficult time in proving your case in the appeal. Go through the guidance which is pretty straightforward if somewhat rigid and get it right next time.

[reliable-mate]

I DON'T KNOW.. How many people will feel this is funny or hilarious or some people might learn a lesson... but I thought it is worth while sharing my experience with the wider community who might encounter a similar problem or be in a similar situation...
After 4 years of being in the UK I today got a letter from the Home Office regarding my application of further leave to remain (FLR),, Guess what!!! .. Negative.. Rejected..

When I opened the letter this evening I was very positive because due to my current financial position I could never in my worst dreams have thought that my application would be rejected.

To tell you guys about my position how I came to this country and how I performed during the last 4 years here is a brief:

I landed in this country in June 2004 with a permanent employment with a reputed company paying me salary of £36,000. Then, I got on and started my own company in 2006 which had a turnover of around £91,000 in 2006-2007. I bought a house in 2005 which is worth now 325,000. My spouse got a job after 6 months of coming to the UK and was earning a decent salary. We had a daughter in Feb 2007 and after a years gap she has got a job worth £40,000. So i.e. we are doing pretty well.

Our visa was expiring in May 2008 and we applied on 15th August 2008 under the Tier 1 category for HSMP. Today I received the result of my application and guess what it was rejected… I was shell shocked and could not believe it. The letter I got stated the following:

Previous Earnings: Points granted 0 but should have been granted 45
I had claimed 45 points under this category because my earnings were way above £40,000. According to there reason why they granted me 0 points was because of the following:
o They were trying to match the net profit of the company (which I claimed as my net salary) with total net Invoice figure which was above £90,000.
o Second reason they gave me was that the figures shown in the Invoices do not match with the credits in my Personal Bank Statements (Funny How will my personal bank statements show my company statements)

For this category I had submitted the following two document:
o Company Accounts for year 2007-2008
o All the Invoices which I received from my Client during that period.

UK Experience: Points granted 0 but should have been granted 5
The reason they gave me was that since I did not get any points in Previous Earnings I was granted 0 points for this category.

English Language: Points granted 0 but should have granted 10
Even though I had qualified for this category in 2004 when I had submitted the relevant documents from my University and also checking it online on their website I was granted 0 points. For your information I did my Bachelor’s degree in Business Economics from Delhi University and they gave me 30 points for Educational criteria. Still they did not give me relevant points for this category. Strange isn’t it…

Well after this long write-up.. I don’t know how many guys I have bored but still for the people who are interested and guide me what to do next here are my following options:

- Appeal – They have sent me the forms how I can appeal
- Leave the Country – Voluntarily
- Apply Again

I would love to hear from people who have experienced a similar situation as mine or who can guide me what to do next. I need to appeal within the next 5 working days so would appreciate if someone can guide me how to appeal.. whether through a Lawyer or on my own… If someone knows about any good lawyers who specialise in HSMP appeals it would be great….

Thanks
Aman

Aman, very sorry to hear about your experience. I and my friends are here on HSMP for the last few years now but we are in the corporate world so no experience as an entrepreneur application. Regarding points for English, one has to provide a letter from university clearly stating the the undergrad degree was taught in English. I got my letter from Delhi University too, I think you will have to arrange Nomenclature and a special certificate both (this is DU's technical jargon). Without this Home Office will not give you points. If you are looking for a competent lawyer, I know an English guy who handled my application a few years back, is well ranked in chambers and partners immigration solicitor ranking and was very economical as he runs his own small practice in Ealing.

Good luck with everything and please do share your experience.

Thanks,

Vinay

[hello_aman]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have noted down some good points from the replies like taking my Accountant to the hearing as a witness....

Well I met a lawyer on Friday as I don't want to take any chances and I think it was worthwhile meeting him as he gave me few points from the Law perspective. His argument was that yes your case is strong and by submitting the business bank statements clearly helps in corroborating the entries but the question is whether I can submit my Business Bank statements as an evidence or not. His argument was that the Home Office might appeal to not consider it as evidence because there is an Act in Immigration Law that prohibits submission of new evidence under some circumstances. The good news is that this Act has not been passed and therefore is not a Law at the moment.

Also he advised me that under the Immigration Law there is no Act for Previous Earnings which says that figures should corroborate between the evidences submitted, although this statement is mentioned in Guidance notes. The main purpose of this section is to see whether an individual is earning £40,000+ or not to qualify for 45 points. For e.g. the Auidited Company Account as evidence clearly shows that the net profit of the company was greater than £40,000.

Thanks Vinay for you input. For the English Language requirement I did not get a certificate earlier because the guidance notes says that if the Course Degree and University appears in the Self-Assessment tool then you can claim 10 points. But to make my case stronger I think I will have to get a Certificate from the University.

Vinay can you let me know which Delhi University office should I contact to get this certificate? Would appreciate if you can let me know the address or contact number. Also if you can let me know what exactly should be there in this certificate? Can you also please let me know the contact details of the Lawyer?

Some members said that I should re-apply but there are few problems with that. If I re-apply again and my application gets rejected because of any reason then I loose the Right to appeal. So I think instead of trusting those incompetent case workers again I stand a much better chance in an appeal where I can present my case myself or with the help of a lawyer.

Thanks guys for your support.

Cheers

[republique]

Thanks everyone for your replies. I have noted down some good points from the replies like taking my Accountant to the hearing as a witness....

Well I met a lawyer on Friday as I don't want to take any chances and I think it was worthwhile meeting him as he gave me few points from the Law perspective. His argument was that yes your case is strong and by submitting the business bank statements clearly helps in corroborating the entries but the question is whether I can submit my Business Bank statements as an evidence or not. His argument was that the Home Office might appeal to not consider it as evidence because there is an Act in Immigration Law that prohibits submission of new evidence under some circumstances. The good news is that this Act has not been passed and therefore is not a Law at the moment.

Also he advised me that under the Immigration Law there is no Act for Previous Earnings which says that figures should corroborate between the evidences submitted, although this statement is mentioned in Guidance notes. The main purpose of this section is to see whether an individual is earning £40,000+ or not to qualify for 45 points. For e.g. the Auidited Company Account as evidence clearly shows that the net profit of the company was greater than £40,000.

Thanks Vinay for you input. For the English Language requirement I did not get a certificate earlier because the guidance notes says that if the Course Degree and University appears in the Self-Assessment tool then you can claim 10 points. But to make my case stronger I think I will have to get a Certificate from the University.

Vinay can you let me know which Delhi University office should I contact to get this certificate? Would appreciate if you can let me know the address or contact number. Also if you can let me know what exactly should be there in this certificate? Can you also please let me know the contact details of the Lawyer?

Some members said that I should re-apply but there are few problems with that. If I re-apply again and my application gets rejected because of any reason then I loose the Right to appeal. So I think instead of trusting those incompetent case workers again I stand a much better chance in an appeal where I can present my case myself or with the help of a lawyer.

Thanks guys for your support.

Cheers

Yes, it is new evidence which was why I was going for a new application.
but you dont really have much of a choice do you, now?