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Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Only for the UK Skilled Worker visas, formerly known as Tier 2 visa route

Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2

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tanya567
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Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by tanya567 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:55 pm

Hi,
I am currently working in the UK on a Tier 2 General visa (main applicant) under SOC Code - 2421 Chartered and certified accountants.

Have 2 questions:

(1) Am I allowed to be in part time business as an Insurance Broker?
(2) Am I allowed to be a director in a Limited company?

Thank you very much in advance to everyone who can help with this! Early responses would be deeply appreciated.

Regards
Tanya

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CR001
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by CR001 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 7:56 pm

You can only work in a second job for 20 hours per week that is the same SOC as your main tier 2 job and it has to be a PAYE job, not self employment.

It is a grey area about director of a limited company. What exactly will you be doing in and for the limited company and whose company is it?
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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tanya567
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by tanya567 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:35 pm

Hi,

Thank you so much for the quick response.

Regarding your question on director, I plan to set up a company for the insurance broking business and plan to be the director. Any thoughts if there is a way to do the insurance broking business without breaching visa rules?

Thanks
Tanya

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CR001
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by CR001 » Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:40 pm

Regarding your question on director, I plan to set up a company for the insurance broking business and plan to be the director. Any thoughts if there is a way to do the insurance broking business without breaching visa rules?
You cannot do that. You can only work in a secondary job through a company (not your own) on PAYE for 20 hours per week and it must be in the same SOC as your main tier 2 job.

If you want to do your own business, you should consider a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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nbandla
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by nbandla » Wed Nov 28, 2018 3:08 pm

In addition to above answers, you can be a director of a company (not to your sponsor company) (you can setup a company and open a bank account for the business) but you cannot work for your business. You can appoint employees to run your business.

Jeff39827
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by Jeff39827 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:08 pm

CR001 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:40 pm
Regarding your question on director, I plan to set up a company for the insurance broking business and plan to be the director. Any thoughts if there is a way to do the insurance broking business without breaching visa rules?
You cannot do that. You can only work in a secondary job through a company (not your own) on PAYE for 20 hours per week and it must be in the same SOC as your main tier 2 job.

If you want to do your own business, you should consider a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa.
Hi CR001, Regarding your comments, I have a question:
An ltd company is not sole-trader, a company is its own legal identity isn't it?
So xxxx can be a director and own part of the company, and at the same time, the company can hire anyone including xxx on company PAYE?
Maybe you could share some source of immigration rule on why xxxx cannot do that? Thank you!

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CR001
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by CR001 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:16 pm

She would then be working for herself then by employing herself.

You seem to be missing the point that ANY supplementary employment can only be in the same SOC and job that she does with her main sponsor.
Char (CR001 not Casa)
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Jeff39827
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by Jeff39827 » Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:47 pm

CR001 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:16 pm
She would then be working for herself then by employing herself.

You seem to be missing the point that ANY supplementary employment can only be in the same SOC and job that she does with her main sponsor.
Hi CR001,

Thank you for your quick reply.
May I ask two other questions regarding to your comments.
1) So the fundamental problem is self-employment? Do you mind provide some source of immigration rules which indicate that self-employment under T2 is not allowed?
2) Of course, one must work under the condition of 'supplementary employment' and the rules are the same profession as your main job and at the same level. In which case, An IT developer, who is sponsored as an APP developer for Xoogle, can work as an APP developer for Xmazon, correct?
Following up on that one, why can't this developer set-up a start-up ltd company with others and the company hire this developer on company PAYE?
(I think this then kind of link back to the first question because you consider this as self-employment)

kiwijane123
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by kiwijane123 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:40 am

CR001 wrote:
Tue Nov 27, 2018 8:40 pm
Regarding your question on director, I plan to set up a company for the insurance broking business and plan to be the director. Any thoughts if there is a way to do the insurance broking business without breaching visa rules?
You cannot do that. You can only work in a secondary job through a company (not your own) on PAYE for 20 hours per week and it must be in the same SOC as your main tier 2 job.

If you want to do your own business, you should consider a Tier 1 Entrepreneur visa.
Hi CR001. I'd like some clarity on this too.

The restriction against self-employment as a form of supplementary employment while on Tier 2 - can you please elaborate on where this is specified?

My understanding is that this is allowed.

Under the interpretation section of the Immigration Rules, employment is defined as:
“employment” unless the contrary intention appears, includes paid and unpaid employment, paid and unpaid work placements undertaken as part of a course or period of study,  self employment and engaging in business or any professional activity.

While self-employment is:
“Self-Employed” means an applicant is registered as self-employed with HM Revenue & Customs, or is employed by a company of which the applicant is a controlling shareholder.

Therefore is it correct that supplementary employment includes self-employment, and self-employment includes both self-employment and being a controlling shareholder in a business?

So there is no requirement for supplementary employment to be PAYE, and self employment is permissable?

I think where the guidance is unclear is when any self employment (as defined under immigration rules, not tax or employment law) is carried out for a company that a Tier 2 migrant has set up and is registered as a director. If the main work that the migrant performs is in the same SOC code as their CoS, rather than undertaking director duties, that might be permissable?

E.g. an accountant on Tier 2 has the opportunity to take on his own clients (so it's the same SOC code). This extra work is outside of normal working hours and does not take more than 20 hours a week. So he sets up a limited company for tax purposes, and either he declares dividend income and/or becomes an employee as PAYE, or declares self employment income as a sole trader for his supplementary accounting work.

Furthermore, since "employment" includes "engaging in business or any professional activity" I would argue that running a business (the limited company) is also allowed, just like self employment - because with either, he is still doing accountanting work.

I think the only issue is the director vs. accountant titles (different SOC codes). But let's say he files a company tax return each year and that's the extent of his duties as a director. Would you therefore say that he is actually working as an accountant for his supplementary employment, rather than a director? Another way to think about it is that director duties are statuatory (file company tax return etc) rather than related to employment.

I know this is a real grey area so all thoughts and perspectives are appreciated!

kiwijane123
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by kiwijane123 » Tue Jan 08, 2019 10:18 pm

Jeff39827 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:47 pm
CR001 wrote:
Mon Dec 10, 2018 1:16 pm
She would then be working for herself then by employing herself.

You seem to be missing the point that ANY supplementary employment can only be in the same SOC and job that she does with her main sponsor.
Hi CR001,

Thank you for your quick reply.
May I ask two other questions regarding to your comments.
1) So the fundamental problem is self-employment? Do you mind provide some source of immigration rules which indicate that self-employment under T2 is not allowed?
2) Of course, one must work under the condition of 'supplementary employment' and the rules are the same profession as your main job and at the same level. In which case, An IT developer, who is sponsored as an APP developer for Xoogle, can work as an APP developer for Xmazon, correct?
Following up on that one, why can't this developer set-up a start-up ltd company with others and the company hire this developer on company PAYE?
(I think this then kind of link back to the first question because you consider this as self-employment)
Hi Jeff39827. I found this article quite helpful: third party immigration advisor weblink removed by moderator

On my reading I think that a Tier 2 migrant CAN be self-employed for supplementary employment, as long as the work is still the same SOC code as that assigned in his or her CoS (and the other restrictions of supplementary employment). Do you agree?

There is nothing in the definitions about directors, although "engaging in business or any professional activity" and being the "controlling shareholder" of a company both count as "employment" under immigration rules. Please see my response to CR001 above for my view on this point. Would be good hear your interpretation!

Jeff39827
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Re: Doing Business under Tier 2 General

Post by Jeff39827 » Wed Jan 09, 2019 6:49 am

Hi kiwijane123 ,

Thanks for your comments on this matter. Yes, I agree with you apart from maybe he can not be a director, it would be in a different COS.
My confusion is the very definition of employment seems to include self-employment, which makes me wonder why many people think it is not allowed.

Welcome to more comments :D

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