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Moderators: Casa, Amber, archigabe, batleykhan, ca.funke, ChetanOjha, EUsmileWEallsmile, JAJ, John, Obie, push, geriatrix, vinny, CR001, zimba, meself2, Administrator
In normal course YES !!NvNv wrote:Help me ...
He is not supposed to go before the primary applicantNvNv wrote:Help me ...
What are you basing your statement on?republique wrote:He is not supposed to go before the primary applicantNvNv wrote:Help me ...
what are you basing your statement on?push_hsmp wrote:What are you basing your statement on?republique wrote:He is not supposed to go before the primary applicantNvNv wrote:Help me ...
mine was a genuine query. I have based my statement on the fact that it seems perfectly fine for a dependent to travel all alone/ before the main applicant etc. and I could not find anything to the contrary on the BIA website - i.e. I did not find any restrictive clause regarding the same.republique wrote:what are you basing your statement on?push_hsmp wrote:What are you basing your statement on?republique wrote:He is not supposed to go before the primary applicantNvNv wrote:Help me ...
How is it a fact when you are basing it on it just sounding perfectly fine?push_hsmp wrote:mine was a genuine query. I have based my statement on the fact that it seems perfectly fine for a dependent to travel all alone/ before the main applicant etc. and I could not find anything to the contrary on the BIA website - i.e. I did not find any restrictive clause regarding the same.republique wrote:what are you basing your statement on?push_hsmp wrote:What are you basing your statement on?republique wrote: He is not supposed to go before the primary applicant
When you categorically said that a dependent cant travel before the main applicant (I am assuming adequate arrangements for their arrangements and sustainance in UK have already been made and they can satisfy the immigration officer) I thought you must have found some restrictive clause and thus requested you to quote the reference. Looks like you are more interested in one-upmanship rather.
regards,
push_hsmp
republique wrote:How is it a fact when you are basing it on it just sounding perfectly fine?push_hsmp wrote:mine was a genuine query. I have based my statement on the fact that it seems perfectly fine for a dependent to travel all alone/ before the main applicant etc. and I could not find anything to the contrary on the BIA website - i.e. I did not find any restrictive clause regarding the same.republique wrote:what are you basing your statement on?push_hsmp wrote:
What are you basing your statement on?
When you categorically said that a dependent cant travel before the main applicant (I am assuming adequate arrangements for their arrangements and sustainance in UK have already been made and they can satisfy the immigration officer) I thought you must have found some restrictive clause and thus requested you to quote the reference. Looks like you are more interested in one-upmanship rather.
regards,
push_hsmp
So you are not basing it on a fact at all.
I am basing it on previous posts from other \s on the forum so feel free to use the search function or go to the bia site.
So you admit that you were just making it up?push_hsmp wrote:Please help us in that case, by directing us to the relevant thread on this forum or the particular page on BIA website. I ried a lot but could not find anything which suggested otherwise.
regards,
push_hsmp
republique wrote:How is it a fact when you are basing it on it just sounding perfectly fine?push_hsmp wrote:mine was a genuine query. I have based my statement on the fact that it seems perfectly fine for a dependent to travel all alone/ before the main applicant etc. and I could not find anything to the contrary on the BIA website - i.e. I did not find any restrictive clause regarding the same.republique wrote: what are you basing your statement on?
When you categorically said that a dependent cant travel before the main applicant (I am assuming adequate arrangements for their arrangements and sustainance in UK have already been made and they can satisfy the immigration officer) I thought you must have found some restrictive clause and thus requested you to quote the reference. Looks like you are more interested in one-upmanship rather.
regards,
push_hsmp
So you are not basing it on a fact at all.
I am basing it on previous posts from other \s on the forum so feel free to use the search function or go to the bia site.
Dont draw any convenient conclusions. My statements were based on deduction rather than on any guess work. Looks like you do not understand reasoning. If you still do not follow this let me tell you what I have been trying to say all this while:republique wrote: I am basing it on previous posts from other \s on the forum so feel free to use the search function or go to the bia site.So you admit that you were just making it up?
Look I told you that I saw it, so I suggest you try to find it.
again you are making up your stuff. So far I have made accurate statements and just because I don't feel like being your pansy and find the prior threads that you can find yourself, doesn't mean I dont want to helpIf you are so confident with your deduction then follow it and leave me alone instead of demanding that I find the information for you. Why dont you do the google search you just suggested someone else do in another post. As far as I am concerned it is common knowledge. Good Luck.push_hsmp wrote:Dont draw any convenient conclusions. My statements were based on deduction rather than on any guess work. Looks like you do not understand reasoning. If you still do not follow this let me tell you what I have been trying to say all this while:republique wrote: I am basing it on previous posts from other \s on the forum so feel free to use the search function or go to the bia site.So you admit that you were just making it up?
Look I told you that I saw it, so I suggest you try to find it.
"I did not find anywhere on the BIA website that a HSMP dependent can not travel before the main applicant, therefore I deduced that he can do so".
On the contrary you made a sweeping comment that a HSMP dependent can not travel before the main applicant and on top of it, later claimed that you saw it in some post / BIA website. I therefore asked you to provide the details of the same.
It looks to me that you are rather interested in proving others wrong and not interested in helping out others. Please bear in mind that we all are faceless here and are here to provide help to each other by creating this collective knowledge base. So once again, in the interest of the person who has raised this issue I would humbly request you to provide a link which you claim to have seen.
Rise above petty stuff and adding to what HSMPuk70 uses as tagline - If you consider yourself as highly qualified think like one AND behave like one
regards,
push_hsmp
PS: I have been in UK for 2+ year. Working on HSMP VISA; but frequent this forum just to provide help to others and learn more from the cases presented and solutions suggested.
I think it is the other way around. I am not trying to prove you wrong. i gave the guy accurate info and you were too busy trying to be important that you told him made up information. So check yourself instead of judging others.push_hsmp wrote:you will never get it because the urge to out do other is sostrong that you dont read the entire mail. I dont need it for myself. I am in UK on HSMP and happily working. It is for the benefit of the person who raised this query initially and for the benefit of larger group here that I was asking you to post the link (as I could not find it, despite trying)
The time you have spent in typing mails to prove me wrong could have well been utilised in helping others. Anyways, nice interacting with you. Good Luck (with whatever you intend to do).
kind regards,
push_hsmp
If depepndant is visiting UK for the first time and main applicant is not accompanying or main applicant is not in UK, depepndant can't visit UK with the dependant VISA. I know people who went back to India from the airport.sushdmehta wrote:Yes.
As long as the dependent has the necessary Entry Clearance and can convincingly answer questions (if any) by the Immigration officers at the landing airport.
regards
bsbs wrote:If depepndant is visiting UK for the first time and main applicant is not accompanying or main applicant is not in UK, depepndant can't visit UK with the dependant VISA. I know people who went back to India from the airport.sushdmehta wrote:Yes.
As long as the dependent has the necessary Entry Clearance and can convincingly answer questions (if any) by the Immigration officers at the landing airport.
regards
Hope that helps.
I really cant comment on the latter part of your statement but the one highlighted is definitely wrong. My own spouse came on her own and was not sent back by the IO and she was coming for the first time as dependent and was all by herself. I was not inbsbs wrote: If depepndant is visiting UK for the first time and main applicant is not accompanying or main applicant is not in UK, depepndant can't visit UK with the dependant VISA. I know people who went back to India from the airport.
Hope that helps.
For goodness sake, it is common sense. It is a dependent visa.push_hsmp wrote:I really cant comment on the latter part of your statement but the one highlighted is definitely wrong. My own spouse came on her own and was not sent back by the IO and she was coming for the first time as dependent and was all by herself. I was not inbsbs wrote: If depepndant is visiting UK for the first time and main applicant is not accompanying or main applicant is not in UK, depepndant can't visit UK with the dependant VISA. I know people who went back to India from the airport.
Hope that helps.
UK at that time.
In some cases even the main applicant be sent back if he/she fails to satisfy the IO. I faced some problem when I visited UK for the first time on a student VISA - the problem was I erroneously provided an incorrect post code of the place I was supposed to be staying at. So its more about satisfying the IO. U
nfortunately, i can not still find anything on the publically available resources that the dependent can not enter UK before the main applicant. We would have been able to remove this confusion otherwise.
did you even bother to read these posts? at best these posts are inconclusive and again almost 99% Reponses in these posts seem to suggest that the dependent can enter earlier than the main applicantI find it strange that I can do a search on this website and find two threads discussing it but you couldn't find it after trying so hard
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... +applicant
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... +applicant
Before blaming me of making stories (again?), read what i have said. I said that my dependent entered uk on her own, unaccompanied and when i was not in uk ( as in i was travelling on business trip. i had gained entry already). I wuld have quoted thsi example right in the beginning. so be polite when you say something, atleast when you have trouble understanding plain English.I don't believe your dependent came here before you because you would have said that in the first place so you are making up stories again. YOu know you do people a disservice when you misguide them and give them a false sense of security. I suggest you stop it.
I am already in uk and dont need to take any chances. Regarding your observation above, decide what you want to say – is it dependent or main applicant that you are talking about?IN any case, you guys want to take the chance that is your call but really but two and two together. It is a dependent visa, you are here because your dependent is here. If your dependent isn't here before you or with you when you enter, then why should the IO let you in.
Point 1: You claim you can not find any threads on the subjectpush_hsmp wrote:did you even bother to read these posts? at best these posts are inconclusive and again almost 99% Reponses in these posts seem to suggest that the dependent can enter earlier than the main applicantI find it strange that I can do a search on this website and find two threads discussing it but you couldn't find it after trying so hard
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... +applicant
http://www.immigrationboards.com/viewto ... +applicant
Before blaming me of making stories (again?), read what i have said. I said that my dependent entered uk on her own, unaccompanied and when i was not in uk ( as in i was travelling on business trip. i had gained entry already). I wuld have quoted thsi example right in the beginning. so be polite when you say something, atleast when you have trouble understanding plain English.I don't believe your dependent came here before you because you would have said that in the first place so you are making up stories again. YOu know you do people a disservice when you misguide them and give them a false sense of security. I suggest you stop it.
I am already in uk and dont need to take any chances. Regarding your observation above, decide what you want to say – is it dependent or main applicant that you are talking about?IN any case, you guys want to take the chance that is your call but really but two and two together. It is a dependent visa, you are here because your dependent is here. If your dependent isn't here before you or with you when you enter, then why should the IO let you in.
All I have been saying is, i could not find a conclusive answer to the the original query and infact have requested people to share their ideas/experience (and quote from relevant sources).
the least that you can do now is to show some humility and stop calling names and try to be constructive rather than being unnecessarily acrimonious. I fail to understand why you have objections to a healthy debate? If you are not interested in this topic, just ignore and dont read the thread?
hope that helps,
regards,
push_hsmp
revisit what i have said - i tried hard to find the information but could not find anything to the contrary - hope you understand what this statement means !!Point 1: You claim you can not find any threads on the subject
I show you the threads and you seem to forget that you claimed you tried so hard.
"Kayalami wrote:[I am not aware of the immigration rules explicitly stating that dependents should only enter the UK with or after the principal applicant. However the visa is granted on the basis that the relevant relationship subsists and will continue to do so throughout the visa validity - this is not possible if you are not together (long term of course rather than a couple of days) and the Home Office will eventually catch you out at say HSMP renewal. The Immigration Officer can also refuse the dependent entry on the same 'non subsistance' basis if upon questioning he/she deems that material facts were concealed. You will also find that most administrative functions e.g. applying for a National Insurance number, registering with a doctor etc where there is a 'dependent' statement in the visa will require the principal applicant to submit their details (passport) so you have to be in the UK in addition to proof of relationship.
- then who is twisting things here?? And on top of it you have guts to call my statements as a story!!So keep twisting and turning and changing your story as to what you were saying because you keep coming back with better stories to support your theory that you can come without the main applicant and there will be no consequences.
Unfortunately for the reaons best known to you only, you have decided to use a very acrid language and have tried to drag the discussion to a personal level. Sorry, mister, I refuse to be dragged down by someone who has problems appreciating other's perspective and has a habit of personally attacking people on a public forum. This is going to be my last response to you. I have no inclination to get into a verbal wrangle in this regard any further please.republique wrote:push_hsmp wrote:what are you basing your statement on?republique wrote:
What are you basing your statement on?
When people disagree, it may seem they have used acrid language to you, especially when you keep moving around the main points. I suggest you get a thicker skin to deal with it. However, I think everyone can see you just ignore the points I have made where you have failed and then you go on a tangent with something else to divert attention to the main point I make on you. That point is that your attitude of saying it is no big deal for the dependent to arrive before the main applicant is doing others a disservice. Why you can't grasp that is beyond me? You wan't to keep downplaying and whittle down to a lesser stance so you don't appear wrong is so shameful that I am embarassed for you.push_hsmp wrote:revisit what i have said - i tried hard to find the information but could not find anything to the contrary - hope you understand what this statement means !!Point 1: You claim you can not find any threads on the subject
I show you the threads and you seem to forget that you claimed you tried so hard.
Point 2: The moderator and guru both state in the threads that a dependent shouldn't come before the main applicant. - oh really?? Quoting from one of the threads that you have cited - see what the moderator has to say:
""Kayalami wrote:[I am not aware of the immigration rules explicitly stating that dependents should only enter the UK with or after the principal applicant. However the visa is granted on the basis that the relevant relationship subsists and will continue to do so throughout the visa validity - this is not possible if you are not together (long term of course rather than a couple of days) and the Home Office will eventually catch you out at say HSMP renewal. The Immigration Officer can also refuse the dependent entry on the same 'non subsistance' basis if upon questioning he/she deems that material facts were concealed. You will also find that most administrative functions e.g. applying for a National Insurance number, registering with a doctor etc where there is a 'dependent' statement in the visa will require the principal applicant to submit their details (passport) so you have to be in the UK in addition to proof of relationship.
- then who is twisting things here?? And on top of it you have guts to call my statements as a story!!So keep twisting and turning and changing your story as to what you were saying because you keep coming back with better stories to support your theory that you can come without the main applicant and there will be no consequences.
Revisit my posts and in every single (barring the first one on this topic" I have maintained that there is no definitive answer available on this issue and have requested all to point to any credible resource that they might know of in this regard.
I have no intentions of misguiding others and thats why I usually keep quoting relevant portions from bia site etc. and ask others too to do it. I asked you also and that inflammed you so much that you stooped so low as to call me the one who is creating stories and what not.....
Unfortunately for the reaons best known to you only, you have decided to use a very acrid language and have tried to drag the discussion to a personal level. Sorry, mister, I refuse to be dragged down by someone who has problems appreciating other's perspective and has a habit of personally attacking people on a public forum. This is going to be my last response to you. I have no inclination to get into a verbal wrangle in this regard any further please.republique wrote:push_hsmp wrote:what are you basing your statement on?republique wrote:
What are you basing your statement on?
kind regards,
push_hsmp
read carefully, these are guidelines for qualifying for Entry Clearance / leave to remain (as applicable) and NOT for physically entering the country (obviously not in case of LTR) i.e. getting past the IO !!To qualify for entry clearance or leave to remain as the Partner of a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, an applicant must meet the requirements listed below. If the applicant meets these requirements, entry clearance or leave to remain will be granted. If the applicant does not meet these requirements, the application will be refused.
- ok no commentsRequirements:
(a) The applicant must not fall for refusal under the general grounds for refusal, and if applying for leave to remain, must not be an illegal entrant.
(i) the dependent is a spouse of the main applicant who has valid leave to enter in the case we have been discussing - for your benefit, let me tell you that Leave to enter is the VISA not the actual entry into the country.(b) The applicant must be the spouse or civil partner, unmarried or same-gender partner of a person who:
(i) has valid leave to enter or remain as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, or
(ii) is, at the same time, being granted entry clearance or leave to remain as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant."
You are confusing between leave to enter/ EC with actually getting past the immigration gates in UK !!Meaning that in order for the IO to determine if these things are in order and to permit the dependent entry into the UK, he would need to see the main applicant or the main applicant should have already been admitted to the UK.