Can dependent go before the main visa holder

[republique]

I will completely disregard the personal comments made by you. But thanks so much for providing me the much needed ammunition:

To qualify for entry clearance or leave to remain as the Partner of a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, an applicant must meet the requirements listed below. If the applicant meets these requirements, entry clearance or leave to remain will be granted. If the applicant does not meet these requirements, the application will be refused.

read carefully, these are guidelines for qualifying for Entry Clearance / leave to remain (as applicable) and NOT for physically entering the country (obviously not in case of LTR) i.e. getting past the IO !!

anyways:

Requirements:

(a) The applicant must not fall for refusal under the general grounds for refusal, and if applying for leave to remain, must not be an illegal entrant.

- ok no comments

(b) The applicant must be the spouse or civil partner, unmarried or same-gender partner of a person who:

(i) has valid leave to enter or remain as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant, or

(ii) is, at the same time, being granted entry clearance or leave to remain as a Tier 1 (General) Migrant."

(i) the dependent is a spouse of the main applicant who has valid leave to enter in the case we have been discussing - for your benefit, let me tell you that Leave to enter is the VISA not the actual entry into the country.


(ii) the dependent has been granted entry clearance at the same time as a tier 1 (General) Migrant - again this is true in the case being discussed!!

Meaning that in order for the IO to determine if these things are in order and to permit the dependent entry into the UK, he would need to see the main applicant or the main applicant should have already been admitted to the UK.

You are confusing between leave to enter/ EC with actually getting past the immigration gates in UK !!



Got it now?

regards,

push_hsmp

And yes of course you would try that nonsense
You claim to not find anything that would indicate a barrier of entry to the dependent. I have. Where is your source of info that shows it isn't a barrier. Very easy to keep shooting holes at something but if you don't find anything to support your position, then you have no right to comment on what I produce which is pretty good support to not go without your sponsor
the IO can reevaluate the authenticity of the visa and interview a person seeking entry to the UK and if he feels that any of the requirements have not been fulfilled he can still refuse entry.
Bottom Line it is not a good idea for the dependent to arrive before the main applicant. Stick to the point of the thread
YOU GOT IT NOW?

[push]

And yes of course you would try that nonsense

I completely disregard that utterly insulting and personal comment.

You claim to not find anything that would indicate a barrier of entry to the dependent. I have.

- oh have you really?? Does the quote from BIA site say that a dependent can not enter UK before the main applicant? Anyone with even a little understanding of English would say it does not as it talks about grant of EC not regarding entry into the country.

Where is your source of info that shows it isn't a barrier.

I never said that I had one. Infact it was me who requested you / others to provide evidence to the contrary - which probably infuriated you, in the first place.

Very easy to keep shooting holes at something but if you don't find anything to support your position, then you have no right to comment on what I produce which is pretty good support to not go without your sponsor

Pretty good support? Don’t pat yourself on the back. What you have produced is totally irrelevant to the issue we have been discussing here.

IO can reevaluate the authenticity of the visa and interview a person seeking entry to the UK and if he feels that any of the requirements have not been fulfilled he can still refuse entry.

Completely agree with you on that.

Bottom Line it is not a good idea for the dependent to arrive before the main applicant.

Again agree with you, to the extent you say "it is not a good idea". It is always advisable to be conservative in leeway one assumes that could be available to him as far as VISA/Immigration etc. are considered. But to make a sweeping statement of yours - "CAN NOT GO" will be highly preposterous.

Dont yield if you dont want to. You have every right to feel frustrated. I can understand your position. First you got furious when I requested you to provide the evidence supporting your assertion. You launched a personal attack on me. When I requested you again, you said you have the evidence but don’t feel obliged to provide it to me and asked me to search the forum & BIA website. Later when you found yourself cornered, you picked up some posts from this forum and some stuff from
BIA website. And when I made you realise that what you were quoting from the BIA website was totally irrelevant (may be you also got angry on realising that you had to be taught about the difference between EC and crossing the Immigration barrier) you have launched another offensive.


My advice to you is: Please do not use words/statements which are personal in nature.

kind regards,

push_hsmp

In case the point that I am making, is proved to be wrong, I will stand corrected and would defitinely apologise. I also agree that as there is uncertainty around this issue, the applicants should not be driven atleast by what I say and they should make their own judgement.

[republique]

And yes of course you would try that nonsense

I completely disregard that utterly insulting and personal comment.

You claim to not find anything that would indicate a barrier of entry to the dependent. I have.

- oh have you really?? Does the quote from BIA site say that a dependent can not enter UK before the main applicant? Anyone with even a little understanding of English would say it does not as it talks about grant of EC not regarding entry into the country.

Where is your source of info that shows it isn't a barrier.

I never said that I had one. Infact it was me who requested you / others to provide evidence to the contrary - which probably infuriated you, in the first place.

Very easy to keep shooting holes at something but if you don't find anything to support your position, then you have no right to comment on what I produce which is pretty good support to not go without your sponsor

Pretty good support? Don’t pat yourself on the back. What you have produced is totally irrelevant to the issue we have been discussing here.

IO can reevaluate the authenticity of the visa and interview a person seeking entry to the UK and if he feels that any of the requirements have not been fulfilled he can still refuse entry.

Completely agree with you on that.

Bottom Line it is not a good idea for the dependent to arrive before the main applicant.

Again agree with you, to the extent you say "it is not a good idea". It is always advisable to be conservative in leeway one assumes that could be available to him as far as VISA/Immigration etc. are considered. But to make a sweeping statement of yours - "CAN NOT GO" will be highly preposterous.

Dont yield if you dont want to. You have every right to feel frustrated. I can understand your position. First you got furious when I requested you to provide the evidence supporting your assertion. You launched a personal attack on me. When I requested you again, you said you have the evidence but don’t feel obliged to provide it to me and asked me to search the forum & BIA website. Later when you found yourself cornered, you picked up some posts from this forum and some stuff from
BIA website. And when I made you realise that what you were quoting from the BIA website was totally irrelevant (may be you also got angry on realising that you had to be taught about the difference between EC and crossing the Immigration barrier) you have launched another offensive.


My advice to you is: Please do not use words/statements which are personal in nature.

kind regards,

push_hsmp

In case the point that I am making, is proved to be wrong, I will stand corrected and would defitinely apologise. I also agree that as there is uncertainty around this issue, the applicants should not be driven atleast by what I say and they should make their own judgement.

Now I call you a liar. You said your wife came before you . That would be a source of info. So now you are taking that back. That you never said you had one. And it is completely ridiculous for you to require negative proof. The BIA isn't going to write about every contingency. Sometimes you have to use common sense and you are refusing to even consider something completely logical. It is a dependent visa so you need the main applicant to be there or already in the country for it to be valid when the dependent first enters into the UK. What is so difficult about understanding that? The other stuff I quote is to draw guidance from so it is strong support if they do it to Non EEA dependents, they would use the same principle for dependents for Tier1 Visa. Why is that so difficult to understand? You are so slippery. First you tell the OP, unequivocally Yes, what is the problem with it and now you say yes you agree with me, not a good idea. That's a liar to me.

[push]

Now I call you a liar. You said your wife came before you .

if only you had read my earlier post carefully:

I don't believe your dependent came here before you because you would have said that in the first place so you are making up stories again. YOu know you do people a disservice when you misguide them and give them a false sense of security. I suggest you stop it.

Before blaming me of making stories (again?), read what i have said. I said that my dependent entered uk on her own, unaccompanied and when i was not in uk ( as in i was travelling on business trip. i had gained entry already). I wuld have quoted thsi example right in the beginning. so be polite when you say something, atleast when you have trouble understanding plain English.

read the post again with your eyes and most importantly the mind open. You are blinded by the fervour to prove yourself correct.

I do not want any further interaction with you. If you do not stop calling me names, I will have to report the matter to the moderators.

[geriatrix]

My apologies in advance 'coz it seems to me that you resent people with an opinion different from yours. This said, I would think that you are nevertheless mature enough to not use personal remarks such as below on a public forum. It is important that egos are kept aside when you communicate in public space.

No one is here to prove the other right or wrong. We are here to help on basis of our experience and information, so let's carry on with that. And we must realize that different people have different opinions, different point of views, and different experiences - which may not necessarily be the same as / in line with your own.

Hope we can end this here - amicably.

regards

Now I call you a liar ...... That's a liar to me.

[republique]

My apologies in advance 'coz it seems to me that you resent people with an opinion different from yours. This said, I would think that you are nevertheless mature enough to not use personal remarks such as below on a public forum. It is important that egos are kept aside when you communicate in public space.

No one is here to prove the other right or wrong. We are here to help on basis of our experience and information, so let's carry on with that. And we must realize that different people have different opinions, different point of views, and different experiences - which may not necessarily be the same as / in line with your own.

Hope we can end this here - amicably.

regards

Now I call you a liar ...... That's a liar to me.

Hey sush, I think you and what's his name are making up an issue and divert attention from his bad advice. Whats his name has been claiming bad language the whole way through and there hasn't been. I proved from his comments that he is lying. Otherwise his action doesn't make any more sense unless he is lying. I could call that crazy too but right now form his past posts he has shown to make up stories and he can't back them up.
I don't think you should be involved and I presume you guys are buddies so I disregard your charade to try to chide me.
I don't resent anyone with a different opinion. I am happy if someone has something meaningful to say but this guy comes out and just says yeah its ok to travel without your sponsor without qualification. I keep telling him how dangerous it is for him to say that and I show good evidence that you should be concerned and he can't be big enough to say, yeah that's true I am wrong. So stop diverting the issue to me trying to be right when the real reason this keeps going is because he cant admit to being wrong.

[geriatrix]

republique, you just proved my point!! And no, I do not know push_hsmp personally.

FYI, my cousin's wife arrived in UK as a dependent 2 months (yes, 2 months!) before her husband (main HSMP applicant). This was in Q3 2006, Aug. or Sep. '06 if I can remember correctly. And I do not remember UK government changing any rules since then with regards to entry of dependents in to UK.

Now before you go on harping that I am making up a story just to prove push_hsmp's point and discredit you for some (sinister) reason, please note that I was the one who responded to the OP's query first - and check for yourself what I wrote there.

Whether you want to believe it or start shouting liar!! liar!! all over again, is entirely up to you, but that's not gonna change my response.

regards

[gotcha]

FYI, my cousin's wife arrived in UK as a dependent 2 months (yes, 2 months!) before her husband (main HSMP applicant). This was in Q3 2006, Aug. or Sep. '06 if I can remember correctly. And I do not remember UK government changing any rules since then with regards to

EC is not final grant of entry in UK.
And it is usual at port to ask about main applicant by IO. And in my opinion , it is very very difficult to let in by IO, if he/she realize that main applicant is not in UK(has not entered in UK at all).

Usually, dpendent are asked about main applicants job/stay etc.
And it does not make logical sense , to make first entry in UK , before first applicant. And it depend on, how you are going to convince IO.

[republique]

republique, you just proved my point!! And no, I do not know push_hsmp personally.

FYI, my cousin's wife arrived in UK as a dependent 2 months (yes, 2 months!) before her husband (main HSMP applicant). This was in Q3 2006, Aug. or Sep. '06 if I can remember correctly. And I do not remember UK government changing any rules since then with regards to entry of dependents in to UK.

Now before you go on harping that I am making up a story just to prove push_hsmp's point and discredit you for some (sinister) reason, please note that I was the one who responded to the OP's query first - and check for yourself what I wrote there.

Whether you want to believe it or start shouting liar!! liar!! all over again, is entirely up to you, but that's not gonna change my response.

regards

Sush you sound like the other guy so I wonder if you guys are not the same person with different handles
In any case, so what your cousin's wife got here before the sponsor, it doesn't mean she should have been allowed to enter. Second, I don't believe you or you would have said it earlier not after all this controversy. Third, there are other people who have attested to the exact opposite experience. so why are you ignoring them? Fourth, where does it state in the rules that that is allowed taking your friend's stance. Prove it with something written in the BIA rules or guidance. Prove it.
Follow Gotcha's lead and just use some common sense.

[geriatrix]

Completely agree that IO might have some questions to ask, and that is why I have clearly indicated in my first response itself that one must be able to answer the IOs questions (if any) convincingly.

From a Tier 1 perspective, when both the main applicant and dependent are outside UK and have been granted EC, the "maintenance and accommodation requirement" is already deemed to have been met through documentary evidence of BIA prescribed "maintenance fund" at the time of EC application. There is no requirement under Tier 1 to provide documentary evidence of accommodation, unlike HSMP where even the main applicant had to provide proof of accommodation before entering the UK first time on HSMP visa.

Since Tier 1/HSMP does not require the applicant to have an "exisitng job" in UK or a "confirmed offer for one" before entering UK, the answer to any such questions can be sensibly answered since both the main applicant and the dependent have equal rights to employment in UK.

Just as there is no written rule (at least I could not find one) that says that dependent must enter alongwith or later than the main HSMP / Tier 1 applicant, there is no rule that says that dependent cannot enter UK before the main HSMP / Tier 1 applicant (and I couldn't find this one either). In the end, it is about how one can convince the IO that the person is entering UK on basis of a his/her (valid) Entry Clearance visa and no rule / condition on which the EC has been granted has been broken or breached.

regards

FYI, my cousin's wife arrived in UK as a dependent 2 months (yes, 2 months!) before her husband (main HSMP applicant). This was in Q3 2006, Aug. or Sep. '06 if I can remember correctly. And I do not remember UK government changing any rules since then with regards to

EC is not final grant of entry in UK.
And it is usual at port to ask about main applicant by IO. And in my opinion , it is very very difficult to let in by IO, if he/she realize that main applicant is not in UK(has not entered in UK at all).

Usually, dpendent are asked about main applicants job/stay etc.
And it does not make logical sense , to make first entry in UK , before first applicant. And it depend on, how you are going to convince IO.

[push]

Sush you sound like the other guy so I wonder if you guys are not the same person with different handles

hmmmmm...... plot thickens now..... One guy masquerading as two two members - embarking on the mission to spread disinformation so that less and less number of people get Tier-1 approvals, resulting in less competition in the job market in London.

Sex, lies, videotapes and "handle"...... MI5's hand suspected ........perfect recipe for the next Bond rubbish

[republique]

Completely agree that IO might have some questions to ask, and that is why I have clearly indicated in my first response itself that one must be able to answer the IOs questions (if any) convincingly.

From a Tier 1 perspective, when both the main applicant and dependent are outside UK and have been granted EC, the "maintenance and accommodation requirement" is already deemed to have been met through documentary evidence of BIA prescribed "maintenance fund" at the time of EC application. There is no requirement under Tier 1 to provide documentary evidence of accommodation, unlike HSMP where even the main applicant had to provide proof of accommodation before entering the UK first time on HSMP visa.

Since Tier 1/HSMP does not require the applicant to have an "exisitng job" in UK or a "confirmed offer for one" before entering UK, the answer to any such questions can be sensibly answered since both the main applicant and the dependent have equal rights to employment in UK.

Just as there is no written rule (at least I could not find one) that says that dependent must enter alongwith or later than the main HSMP / Tier 1 applicant, there is no rule that says that dependent cannot enter UK before the main HSMP / Tier 1 applicant (and I couldn't find this one either). In the end, it is about how one can convince the IO that the person is entering UK on basis of a his/her (valid) Entry Clearance visa and no rule / condition on which the EC has been granted has been broken or breached.

regards

FYI, my cousin's wife arrived in UK as a dependent 2 months (yes, 2 months!) before her husband (main HSMP applicant). This was in Q3 2006, Aug. or Sep. '06 if I can remember correctly. And I do not remember UK government changing any rules since then with regards to

EC is not final grant of entry in UK.
And it is usual at port to ask about main applicant by IO. And in my opinion , it is very very difficult to let in by IO, if he/she realize that main applicant is not in UK(has not entered in UK at all).

Usually, dpendent are asked about main applicants job/stay etc.
And it does not make logical sense , to make first entry in UK , before first applicant. And it depend on, how you are going to convince IO.

It is amazing how you refuse to see what is in front of you and disregard probative evidence indicating the truth which is the dependent should not arrive before the main applicant.
It is irrelevant that thet HSMP visa does not require the main applicant or dependent to have an accommodation or a job before entering the UK. The dependent is allowed to enter based on the main applicant's merit which is in this case is the person's talent and ability. The dependent may or may not have any such skills. However because they did not have to obtain the 75 points, they are not given the high five pass and handshake at the border like the main applicant gets. The dependent's merit to enter the country is funneled through the auspices of the main applicant. Thus, the reasoning you have provided completely fails.
The other stuff has already been countered so I will not bother to repeat it as you clearly will disregard and pretend it doesn't exist.

[gotcha]

Completely agree that IO might have some questions to ask, and that is why I have clearly indicated in my first response itself that one must be able to answer the IOs questions (if any) convincingly.

From a Tier 1 perspective, when both the main applicant and dependent are outside UK and have been granted EC, the "maintenance and accommodation requirement" is already deemed to have been met through documentary evidence of BIA prescribed "maintenance fund" at the time of EC application. There is no requirement under Tier 1 to provide documentary evidence of accommodation, unlike HSMP where even the main applicant had to provide proof of accommodation before entering the UK first time on HSMP visa.

Since Tier 1/HSMP does not require the applicant to have an "exisitng job" in UK or a "confirmed offer for one" before entering UK, the answer to any such questions can be sensibly answered since both the main applicant and the dependent have equal rights to employment in UK.

Just as there is no written rule (at least I could not find one) that says that dependent must enter alongwith or later than the main HSMP / Tier 1 applicant, there is no rule that says that dependent cannot enter UK before the main HSMP / Tier 1 applicant (and I couldn't find this one either). In the end, it is about how one can convince the IO that the person is entering UK on basis of a his/her (valid) Entry Clearance visa and no rule / condition on which the EC has been granted has been broken or breached.

You are missing my point. It is not about EC. Simply, it does not make logical sense, to allow a person entry, if her/his sponsor has not entered in UK.
I wonder, what your cousin's wife has answered to IO's question, "Where does your husband live?", or "Where does he work?"

And wonder, what could be "satisfactory" answer to this?If main applicant has not entered in UK.

Dependent is simply dependent. He/she is tied with main applicant. If main applicants visa is revoked for some reason, so does dependents.

One more example should goive you idea. Dependents are allowred to work in UK. But, it should not to "support" main applicant or herself.

So her/his status is solely based on relationship betn them.

[bsbs]

If depepndant is visiting UK for the first time and main applicant is not accompanying or main applicant is not in UK, depepndant can't visit UK with the dependant VISA. I know people who went back to India from the airport.

Hope that helps.

I really cant comment on the latter part of your statement but the one highlighted is definitely wrong. My own spouse came on her own and was not sent back by the IO and she was coming for the first time as dependent and was all by herself. I was not in
UK at that time.

In some cases even the main applicant can be sent back if he/she fails to satisfy the IO. I faced some problem when I visited UK for the first time on a student VISA - the problem was I erroneously provided an incorrect post code of the place I was supposed to be staying at. So its more about satisfying the IO. U

nfortunately, i can not still find anything on the publically available resources that the dependent can not enter UK before the main applicant. We would have been able to remove this confusion otherwise.

Sorry must have mentioned the type of VISA. They had HSMP dependant VISA and main HSMP holder was not in UK and dependant never visited with the main HSMP holder before. In Delhi airport they didn't stop. In Doha when they were going for connecting flight they stopped them and dependant went back.[/quote]