successful Spouse visa of an detained overstayer with debts

[hadenough]

Hi guys, I need a little advice please. Me and my wife are going to apply for spousal visa from outside the UK. We meet the financial requirements through savings and will be living with her parents when/if we can return to the UK. I say return as I have lived there for 11 years, 9 with a visa and 2 whilst having visa’s pending but ultimately rejected. We want to check we are in the right position to apply for this visa and have not missed anything.

QUICK HISTORY:
- 2007 - moved to UK on student visa.
- until 2015 - renewed visa 3 times (student and Tier 4)
- Aug 2015 - applied for FLR-O
- Jan 2016 - this was rejected and I put in for JR
- Jan 2017 - this was rejected
- April 2017 - put in new application for FLR-HRO *
- July 2017 - got married to British partner and varied the pending FLR-HRO to FLR-FP
- Nov 2017 - this was rejected but had 7 days to put in further info. Submitted a Section 120
- Sep 2018 - they again rejected **
- Oct 2018 - voluntarily left the country with my wife (who’s on tourist visa)

* I was rejected mid-Jan 2017 and sought advice from lawyer. I had 28 days to reply to HO, so until mid-Feb. The lawyers dragged their feet and went over the 28 days because they were ‘seeking advice from a barrister’. I chased them numerous times before the deadline and was told not to worry. I am concerned how this will now affect my new application as I didn’t then apply for FLR-HRO until 5th April which means I went almost 2 months ‘not on record’. On my subsequent refusal this overstay has not been mentioned so should I bring it up?

** i need to explain the reasons for the delay between receiving the rejection and leaving the UK.
- Sep 10th - Lawyer received letter saying visa and Section 120 was rejected.
- Sep 20th - lawyer informed us, losing 10 of the 14 days we had to contact HO to inform them of our decision (i.e. whether to apply for new visa or to leave voluntarily). Their delay was because the firm had just announced it was closing down and so they could not do any work - yet they did not inform us. 20th was Thursday. Over weekend we decided we would voluntarily leave the UK and apply for spousal visa from outside.
- Sep 24th - I had report in at immigration this Monday. This was the 14th days so technically still within the usual allowed time to update HO of decision. I walked in and they instantly took me aside. I was not interviewed and not given a chance to explain that I knew I was rejected and to tell them I was leaving asap. I was detained that afternoon.
- Sep 25 - Oct 10 - requested bail from HO; gathered documents to prove I was wanting to leave UK; bail still denied on incorrect grounds; requested bail from courts; given court date
- Oct 11th - granted bail with courts which my wife won for me. I was released the same day. Booked flights same day.
- Oct 17th - left UK.
NOTE: had i not been detained I would have left the UK about 3 weeks earlier. Also I was NEVER given deportation or removal order and have this on official HO document.


OUR CONCERNS:
Our main concerns are around reasons they could reject and 320 grounds for refusal:

- I am deemed an overstayer. HOWEVER this is not due to absconding or running - it has been whilst waiting for decision from HO on applications and JR’s and whilst being detained when I needn’t have been. we also know they cannot reject based SOLELY on being an overstayer, esp if I have a British wife. But we are concerned this will be put together with either “frustrating the rules” or my debt:

- we will be seen to be ‘frustrating the rules’ with our applications but these were genuine applications - my FLR-O was rejected, we JR’d which is allowed. This rejected and I applied new FLR which is allowed. We varied which is allowed. This rejected and so we left voluntarily which is allowed.

- debt. I had 6 accounts with DCA’s, 3 of which accepted a 10% Full & Final offer and are now paid off and closed. One of these had a CCJ. I still have 3 accounts with same DCA, 2 of which have CCJ. They did not accept my F&F offer but did offer to put my accounts on hold for 1 year due to my circumstances (I always kept them up to date with my immigration status and because the HO did not permit me to work I could not set up a payment plan with them). I have letters and emails confirming this. I also have my outstanding HO invoice for legal fees from my 2016 JR. This is being paid monthly as per their agreed payment plan.

QUESTION: will these debts & CCJs affect my application if they are outstanding, or is the fact the DCA has offered to put it on hold acceptable? These debts are not legal fees, they are credit card and overdraft debts, all because I was stopped from working so then had no funds to pay them off - I had always paid off previously when I was able to work.

QUESTION: will the HO question why their debt is only on a payment plan (about £140 / month)? Will they accept we set up the plan and have paid every month despite it being small, or will they question why we haven’t paid it off in full if we have extra savings?

QUESTION: We know we’re within the rules but how do we make this 100% clear so there is no room for rejection?



DOCUMENTS WE HAVE:
- bank statements covering 8 months
- letters detailing where the funds came from
- letter for my parents explaining we will live with them in their owned house
- title deed of that house proving they own it and it’s not on mortgage or rented
- letters from friends and family about our relationship
- copies of emails and letters from HO confirming our notice of marriage and that they accept we are genuine
- photos of me and my wife with our friends and family proving i have more than established life in UK
- letter from wife as sponsor explaining funds of money and our relationship
- confirmation letter from HO of payment plan for JR legal debt

QUESTION: do we need anything else?

QUESTION: do we need to use any particular wording within certain letters to ‘tick the boxes’ as it were? That I mean is should we quote the Acts and Rules and list out that we have ticked every box so it is clear and in their face and can’t be misread? I have read so many stories of HO caseworkers missing things and the applicant then having to reapply that I want it to be crystal clear to remove this danger.



DO WE NEED A LAWYER?
We have been quoted £1000 for a lawyer to submit the application. We are concerned this is too much for what they will be doing (i.e cover letter and completing the online form). Obviously if it is best to use lawyer then we will but if we can save this money and it is doable by ourselves we

QUESTION: what are the pros and cons of using lawyer for spousal visa application?


Thanks so much in advance everyone, really want to get this one spot on as we've had bad luck in the past so any help is very greatly appreciated.

[hadenough]

Can anybody help us with some advice please?
Thank you very much

[Alam-]

It might help if you hire a solicitor but it’s even better if you can do it on your own with the help of this forum asking very specific questions keep it reasonably simple. However, speaking from my experience, you should seek a paid solicitor advice before putting in application if you’re not going to hire a solicitor for the application.
I don’t think your history is very bad but they might reject you for frustrating the immigration system, relationship, debts. However you might be able to avoid that if you can explain everything in your statement/cover letter stating you done everything to regularise your status.

[hadenough]

Hi Alam, thank you for your reply. Those are the things we would be worried about that may cause a rejection so we are trying to work out if they will have an effect and how we can best explain them. I do have some specific questions around them which I've separated out below:

QUESTION: will these debts & CCJs affect my application if they are outstanding, or is the fact the DCA has offered to put the accounts on hold acceptable? Please note that these debts are not legal fees, they are credit card and overdraft debts, and built up because I was stopped from working (by the HO after my then visa application was refused) so I therefore had no funds to pay them off - I had always paid off previously when I was able to work.

QUESTION: will the HO question why their debt is only on a payment plan (about £140 / month)? Will they accept we set up the plan and have paid every month despite it being small, or will they question why we haven’t paid it off in full if we have extra savings?

QUESTION: We know we’re within the rules but how do we make this 100% clear so there is no room for rejection - should we spell it out that we tick boxes X,Y,Z?

QUESTION: are the documents I have listed sufficient?

QUESTION: do we need to use any particular wording within certain letters to ‘tick the boxes’ as it were? That I mean is should we quote the Acts and Rules and list out that we have ticked every box so it is clear and in their face and can’t be misread? I have read so many stories of HO caseworkers missing things and the applicant then having to reapply that I want it to be crystal clear to remove this danger.

QUESTION: what are the pros and cons of using lawyer for spousal visa application, or should we complete the online form ourselves?

Thank you again to anyone that can help

[Alphabeticalfallacy]

May I know how you married while being an over stayer? Did Home Office not stop you?

[hadenough]

We had our FLR-HRO pending and requested a certified copy of my husbands passport from the Home Office so we could get married. They sent this to us and we put in for our notice of marriage. After the initial (normal) 45 days they wrote to us to say they were satisfied and did not wish to investigate our relationship and we could continue with the wedding. In our application refusal they also confirmed again they were happy we were in a genuine and subsisting relationship.

[hadenough]

I also meant to ask how long the cover letters should be.

My wifes is 2 full A4 pages - she explains:
- the financial requirement,
- the accommodation plans,
- when we met dated, married, met parents,
- a paragraph about the FLR-FO rejecting, me being detained but us getting visas to voluntarily leave
- a more emotional paragraph about our relationship and future plans
- why we can't live elsewhere (she has British branded business, unwell family members etc

My cover letter is currently 8 pages which feels too long but I have 2 full pages explaining my immigration history and how I came to be an overstayer. I have read that I really need to make sure that this is explained so it does not go against me. So I have:
- brief intro about my time in UK since 2007
- why I am applying to join my wife in UK (continue our lives etc)
- immigration history (including past 2 rejections, my detention, court granting me bail, voluntary departure). One delay is between whenmy FLR-O was rejected and I sought advice from lawyer - they took over the 28 days to make decision which has caused an overstay. I will take responsibility but is it also worth mentioning we have complaint with legal ombudsman about this?
- relationship with my wife. This is 2 full pages as it goes into detail about dating, meeting friends, moving in with family etc - is this too much? does it need to be cut down to minimum?
- which country we left to and why (I'm Sri Lankan but grew up in Bahrain from age of 3 months. My parents have lived there for over 40 years and have residency. I was able to get sponsorship and residents permit there and am applying from there). This section also includes how difficult it has been as the culture is so different to UK and my wife is really struggling with adjustment and why therefore we can't live there and must come back to UK.
- half page explaining my debts (plus extra sheet with table detailing amounts and with who)
- half page of future plans and dreams, and summarising our strong relationship

I want to include everything that is needed but don't want to write too much incase important details are missed.

How much is recommended for each of above points?

Thank you!

[hadenough]

Can anybody help us with the above concerns please?
Thanks alot

[Alam-]

Do not over explain anything before you met your spouse or overstay whichever comes first. Home office is interested in 2 things, your overstay/bad immigration history and your relationship. If you met your partner before overstay, explain your every decision that you couldn't imagine leaving your partner behind and couldn't imagine living apart etc.
Make a heading of every important conditions you have to fulfil to get visa and explain how you qualify for that, for example maintenance, living arrangements, english requirement, overstay, Medical treatment (if you had or had not any while you were overstayer, if you had, contact NHS to see if you owe them anything. visa will be rejected if you owe them more than £500), TB clearance certificate (if you're from those countries who need TB clearance certificate), etc.
I am not sure about the debts.
Have you had an voilations like studied, NHS treatment, tried to work after overstay.
Do not lie or hide anything from them at all even though you might think it might go against you unless it's something you're sure they will never find out.
I overstayed in 2016 because solicitor wrote home office a letter instead of a paid application, then applied FLR FP through another solicitor, rejected 2017, FLR M rejected 2018 (because I overstayed). Left volunterily and applied visa in December, granted and received my passport yesterday.
My statement was 9 pages long calibri font 11 size. I explained everything related to me or my wife, mentioned all the supporting documents I have sent and why and how they affect my application. You can see my timeline in another post PAKISTAN TIMELINES ONLY.
I wish you good luck.

[hadenough]

Hi guys. want to share our story = we have just been notified that our spouse visa application has been successful. so here is our full story incase anything is useful to any one else in a similar situation.

Me and my wife applied for a spousal visa from outside the UK. We met the financial requirements through savings.

QUICK HISTORY:
- 2007 - moved to UK on student visa.
- until 2015 - renewed visa 3 times (student and Tier 4)
- Aug 2015 - applied for FLR-O
- Jan 2016 - this was rejected and I put in for JR
- Jan 2017 - this was rejected
- April 2017 - put in new application for FLR-HRO *
- July 2017 - got married to British partner and varied the pending FLR-HRO to FLR-FP
- Nov 2017 - this was rejected but had 7 days to put in further info. Submitted a Section 120
- Sep 2018 - they again rejected **
- Oct 2018 - voluntarily left the country with my wife (who’s on tourist visa)

* I was rejected mid-Jan 2017 and sought advice from lawyer. I had 28 days to reply to HO, so until mid-Feb. The lawyers dragged their feet and went over the 28 days because they were ‘seeking advice from a barrister’. I chased them numerous times before the deadline and was told not to worry. I am concerned how this will now affect my new application as I didn’t then apply for FLR-HRO until 5th April which means I went almost 2 months ‘not on record’. On my subsequent refusal this overstay has not been mentioned so should I bring it up?

** i need to explain the reasons for the delay between receiving the rejection and leaving the UK.
- Sep 10th - Lawyer received letter saying visa and Section 120 was rejected.
- Sep 20th - lawyer informed us, losing 10 of the 14 days we had to contact HO to inform them of our decision (i.e. whether to apply for new visa or to leave voluntarily). Their delay was because the firm had just announced it was closing down and so they could not do any work - yet they did not inform us. 20th was Thursday. Over weekend we decided we would voluntarily leave the UK and apply for spousal visa from outside.
- Sep 24th - I had report in at immigration this Monday. This was the 14th days so technically still within the usual allowed time to update HO of decision. I walked in and they instantly took me aside. I was not interviewed and not given a chance to explain that I knew I was rejected and to tell them I was leaving asap. I was detained that afternoon.
- Sep 25 - Oct 10 - requested bail from HO; gathered documents to prove I was wanting to leave UK; bail still denied on incorrect grounds; requested bail from courts; given court date
- Oct 11th - granted bail with courts which my wife won for me. I was released the same day. Booked flights same day.
- Oct 17th - left UK.
NOTE: had i not been detained I would have left the UK about 3 weeks earlier. Also I was NEVER given deportation or removal order and have this on official HO document.

OUR CONCERNS WERE:
Our main concerns were around reasons they could reject and 320 grounds for refusal:

- I am deemed an overstayer. HOWEVER this is not due to absconding or running - it has been whilst waiting for decision from HO on applications and JR’s and whilst being detained when I needn’t have been. we also know they cannot reject based SOLELY on being an overstayer, esp if I have a British wife. But we are concerned this will be put together with either “frustrating the rules” or my debt:

- we will be seen to be ‘frustrating the rules’ with our applications but these were genuine applications - my FLR-O was rejected, we JR’d which is allowed. This rejected and I applied new FLR which is allowed. We varied which is allowed. This rejected and so we left voluntarily which is allowed.

- debt. I had 6 accounts with DCA’s, 3 of which accepted a 10% Full & Final offer and are now paid off and closed. One of these had a CCJ. I still have 3 accounts with same DCA, 2 of which have CCJ. They did not accept my F&F offer but did offer to put my accounts on hold for 1 year due to my circumstances (I always kept them up to date with my immigration status and because the HO did not permit me to work I could not set up a payment plan with them). I have letters and emails confirming this. I also have my outstanding HO invoice for legal fees from my 2016 JR. This is being paid monthly as per their agreed payment plan.

We applied for the spouse visa end of Feb 2019 CAT-D savings route as my Mother sold her house and confirmed by a letter that the money was given to us as a gift. The letter was signed by a lawyer too.

DOCUMENTS WE SUBMITTED:

Completed spousal visa form (online)
My passport copy
My birth certificate (Sri Lanka)
Copy of my Bahrain ID card and Bahrain residence visa
Wife's’s Passport copy
My statement
Wife’s statement
Ketter from m Mother confirming the gift.
Marriage certificate
Notice of Marriage Appointment
Home Office letter dated 23/06/2017 – referral of proposed marriage
Kent Registration Service booking confirmation
Wedding ring receipts
Wedding bouquet confirmation
Confirmation of pre-booking of meal and receipt (wedding)
Hotel booking and train ticket booking
Confirmation of social events attended by us and others
Journey history - Oyster
What’s App and email communications
Lloyds Joint Bank Statements
Letter of Support from my wife’s mother
Letter of Support from my wife’s father
Letter fromthe buyer who bought my Mom's house original deed, bank transfer.
Letter of support from my parents with copy of their identity and visa for Bahrain
Letter from Khalifa Bin Ahmed Al Dahrani (My father’s employer)
Letter of support from previous employer
Letters of support from friends
Title deed and property letter from wife's parent confirming we have a place to live in the UK
Bank Statements
Utility Bills of parents in law (UK)
Print out of pics
Holiday Travel insurance copy + flights + Hotel bookings
Letter of debts we paid off and letter of grace period give for other debts

A month after submitting we got an email from the HO that the application is with an ECO for consideration. we didnt hear anything till the 13th of May when we recieved a text saying "passport ready for collection". We went the next day and collected the passport and the read the letter which said YOU APPLICATION HAS BEEN SUCCESSFUL. The initial vignette is for 30 day to enter UK. And the Visa for 33 months.