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Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Only for the UK Skilled Worker visas, formerly known as Tier 2 visa route

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murillobraga
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Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:24 am

Hi guys

I have applied to my baby/daughter's visa on the 08/11/2018 (more than 13 weeks now!!!) and so far we have been facing a lot of issues with the Home Office, due to their incompetence basically.

When I posted all the required documents, I remember very well including all paperwork - also bank statements from the specific range of time they have asked for.

Long story short, since December, I have been receiving emails from them, from random people, asking for a specific bank statement, that had been already included in the original paperwork, but even though it was there, I then sent to them by email. After doing that, again I kept receiving emails back asking for the same thing.

Last week they have admitted that the document was indeed received a long ago, so basically they have admitted their mistake.

In the meantime, I raised a complaint with my MP and also got some advice from the citizen advice and I ended up booking a chat with a lawyer about my case. But of course I value a lot other people's experiences, so hence I am posting this message here.

Now I am facing another problem: they are asking me to pay an extra fee of 240 pounds, because my role is not in the shortage occupation list. This is very contradictory, because they were the ones that approved and issued my certificate of sponsorship, 3 years ago, before I moved to the UK.

So my questions are:
1. Considering that they have admitted their mistake and this may have delayed my application in at least 2 months, is there anything or they could do to speed up my application, apologize for the mistake or give any compensation?

2. Does it make any sense for them to be charging this extra fee, considering what I have mentioned above?

Thanks in advance!

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by CR001 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 11:34 am

Now I am facing another problem: they are asking me to pay an extra fee of 240 pounds, because my role is not in the shortage occupation list. This is very contradictory, because they were the ones that approved and issued my certificate of sponsorship, 3 years ago, before I moved to the UK.
What is your SOC and what option did you select for the child dependent visa??
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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:48 pm

COS number: Cxxxxxxx

Not sure if this is what you are asking for: "PBS Dependant - Child"

Thanks!

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by CR001 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:50 pm

murillobraga wrote:
Mon Feb 04, 2019 12:48 pm
COS number: Cxxxxxxx

Not sure if this is what you are asking for: "PBS Dependant - Child"

Thanks!
Not the cos number. The SOC for your job, a 4 digit number, on appendix j or appendix k of the immigrations rules.

Did you choose that category standard up to 3 years?? What fee did you pay??
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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:01 pm

Job type you mean? Code is 2136 and I have checked this in the current shortage list.

I paid

464 for the application
200 for the IHS

Thanks

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:07 pm

And I don't really remember having such option to pick this type of application, I went for the dependant one/child and informed my daughter's birth date.

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by CR001 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:18 pm

SOC 2136 is on the shortage list and the non shortage list. Only very specific jobs under 2136 qualify for shortage occupation status. The fee you have paid for the dependent is for shortage occupation main visa holder.

Are you sure your job is a shortage occupation one with a qualifying company per the rules of Appendix K??
Up to 3 years - shortage occupation
A shortage occupation is a skilled job where there is a shortage of workers in the UK.

Who you’re applying for Apply (outside the UK) Extend or switch (in the UK)
All dependents £464 each person £464 each person
If your CoS and job is NOT a shortage occupation one, you should have paid the higher fee, which is why HO is asking you to pay in the difference.
Up to 3 years
Who you’re applying for Apply (outside the UK) Extend or switch (in the UK)
All dependents £610 each person £704 each person
You would have had a drop down menu to choose which category to apply under, i.e.

> Up to 3 years
or > Up to 3 years - shortage occupation (which appears to be what you selected)
or > More than 3 years
or > More than 3 years - shortage occupation

When does your current visa expire??
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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:34 pm

> Up to 3 years - shortage occupation (which appears to be what you selected) > That is right

I am non European, so no way I could get a job in the UK, if it wasn't part of the shortage list. Do you understand why this is discrepant with what they are assuming now?

My visa expires in a few months time, May/2019.

I am checking this with the HR here at my workplace anyway, because it is very weird.

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by CR001 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 1:57 pm

I am non European, so no way I could get a job in the UK, if it wasn't part of the shortage list. Do you understand why this is discrepant with what they are assuming now?
You are very mistaken. There are 1000s of Tier 2 General visa holders in the UK from all over the world who are NOT on shortage occupation SOC's (i.e. Appendix J SOC and NOT Appendix K Shortage Occupation SOC). It appears you are in fact non shortage occupation and selected the wrong sub category for your child, perhaps with the view to pay the cheaper visa fee. So this isn't really about HO being incompetent. You are lucky it wasn't outright refused, with a loss of visa fee.

What is your job title??
My visa expires in a few months time, May/2019.
You do realise your childs visa will only be valid till May 2019.

There is nothing weird here, you simply appear to have chosen the wrong sub category and under paid and made an assumption about your SOC/job being shortage occ which is not necessarily accurate.
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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Feb 04, 2019 2:52 pm

Hello

Many thanks for the useful information.

Regarding the incompetence of HO, this is linked to my point number 1, not number 2, ok? And as I said, they recognized their mistake. The other problem I faced with them (and 2 other friends of mine also complained about this) was that apart from the fact that they take ages to respond (fine, acceptable if it falls within the expect timeframe), once they do, they don't seem to make any effort to explain things properly, which makes the process even more annoying.

They indeed delayed my application because of a document that was sent ages ago. The point number 2 is something that they came up recently.

Example of the 1st email I got from them in regards to point 2: I can see that you need to top up your application with 240 pounds.

And that's it, no explanation to that... only a very vague comment.

Coming back to number 2, I applied to shortage occupation not because I wanted to pay less, I did because at the time I applied for this job, my employer had advertised it as being a shortage one, hence I applied to this specific type.

And in fact, that time around they had to prove to the home office that they weren't able to find anyone in the UK to fill in the vacancy.

About getting my application refused, trust me, this would be much better if they did and communicated exactly what the problem was, because I have been waiting for almost 13 weeks now.

So now I don't really know where the problem resides.

Job title: Band 7 Senior Analyst Programmer
Job type: 2136 Programmers and software development professionals

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by CR001 » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:14 pm

Coming back to number 2, I applied to shortage occupation not because I wanted to pay less, I did because at the time I applied for this job, my employer had advertised it as being a shortage one, hence I applied to this specific type.

And in fact, that time around they had to prove to the home office that they weren't able to find anyone in the UK to fill in the vacancy.
RLMT advertising is NOT required for shortage occupation jobs. So the fact that this was a requirement BEFORE requesting an RCoS from HO, indicates it is a non-shortage occupation job in Appendix J, details below.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... illed-work
2136 Programmers and software development professionals

Example job tasks
• examines existing software and determines requirements for new/modified systems in the light of business needs;
• undertakes feasibility study to design software solutions;
• writes and codes individual programs according to specifications;
• develops user interfaces;
• tests and corrects software programs;
• writes code for specialist programming for computer games, (for example, artificial intelligence, 3D engine development);
• implements and evaluates the software;
• plans and maintains database structures;
• writes operational documentation and provides subsequent support and training for users.

Related job titles:
• Analyst-programmer
• Database developer
• Games programmer
• Programmer • Software engineer

Salary rates:
New entrant: £24,000

[Source: Annual Survey of Hours and Earnings 2014 (no equivalent 2015 or 2016 data available)]

Experienced worker: £32,000
Job title: Band 7 Senior Analyst Programmer
Job type: 2136 Programmers and software development professionals
I am going to assume that you might work in the NHS, given that you are quoting their salary banding. If not, no issue.

Now, for your job to be a shortage occupation one, where no RLMT would be required and the RCoS would clearly state it was a shortage occupation, the link and detail below of Appendix K is relevant.

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/immigration ... ation-list

What 'qualifying company' means, i.e. does not mean 'sponsor'.
4. In this Appendix “qualifying company” means a company which:
(a) has obtained permission from the Home Office to issue a Certificate of Sponsorship in respect of the relevant job on the basis that the job is included on the Shortage Occupation List and the company:
(i) is licensed as a sponsor for the purposes of Tier 2 of the Points Based System,
(ii) at the time of obtaining such permission, employs between 20 and 250 employees (inclusive), or employs fewer than 20 employees and has provided a letter from the Department for International Trade, confirming that the Department has been working with the company and supports the application in relation to its trade or investment activity,
(iii) is not more than 25% owned by a company which has one or more other establishments in the UK and one of those establishments employs more than 250 employees; and
(iv) has not been established in the UK for the purpose of supplying services exclusively to a single company or company group in the UK; and
Jobs under SOC 2136 below that fall under the shortage occupation
2136 Programmers and software development professionals

Only the following jobs in this occupation code:

Senior developer employed by a qualifying company, where the job requires a person with a minimum of five years’ relevant experience and demonstrable experience of having led a team.

The following jobs in visual effects and 2D/3D computer animation for the film, television or video games sectors:

software developer
shader writer
games designer
The following jobs in the electronics system industry:
driver developer
embedded communications engineer
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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by katanayi » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:17 pm

And in fact, that time around they had to prove to the home office that they weren't able to find anyone in the UK to fill in the vacancy.
You are contradicting your statment , my understanding is that SOL jobs no need RLMT.

Sorry already replied by that time I submitted reply :D

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Feb 04, 2019 4:56 pm

Once again, many thanks for your swift response, CR001. I am still very green on this subject, so I will dive in a bit more on the links you have mentioned and try to figure out what I should do next.

Have a good day!

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:20 pm

Hello, CR001

Updates on my case: I have paid the extra fee the HO requested, because I hadn't got much time to go after the information and chase the HO if that was the case.

These days, I have been reading some stuff about the world of SOL and RLMT and I guess I now understand them and how they relate to each other.

What the HO stated makes sense now, just because my certificate of sponsorship clearly says that the RLMT was carried out and doesn't mention anything about my job being on the SOL, although the list itself shows the 2136 there.

I haven't yet had the change to chase my employer to try figure out what they did on their side, but I will find out in the upcoming days.

But the only thing that is still intriguing me is the fact that my 1st application when I came to the UK was as follows:

CATEGORY: TIER 2 (GENERAL SHORTAGE OCCUPATION)
VISA TYPE: GENERAL SHORTAGE OCCUPATION PARTNER, UP TO 3 YEARS

And it had been approved by the HO. So why ONLY when I recently applied for my daughter's visa, they have realized that I am in a different situation? Have you seen this before?

Thanks again

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by CR001 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 1:52 pm

What was the visa duration of your initial visa to the UK??
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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:47 pm

3 years

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Thu Apr 11, 2019 12:42 am

?

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Re: Home Office incompetence - TIER 2 Dependent application

Post by murillobraga » Fri Apr 26, 2019 12:44 pm

Hello mate, are you still able to help me?

Thanks again

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